Drum Sander

[gordon mosher]

If you buying a drum sander for a small shop, what would it be? Would an open end sander be better? The odd time I might be doing a table top.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Budget?

I have a Performax (now Jet) 16-32. It's now rather pricey, I got it for 699 many years ago. Free infeed and outfeed tables and a Bosch ROS rebate. They have a 10-20 also. I think it's a good sander, I can sand down to 1/8 easily. To get thinner, requires a lot of pucker factor, but it can go very thin. Requires a little fiddling, to use the double width. The non open sanders are more level, I would think, since the end is obviously not open and can flex. Paper is expensive too. I'd buy another, if I had to.

It's not a planer, it won't thin down stock, unless you have lots of time. I do it since I don't have a planer yet. Lots of dust too. You need a dust collector.

[Brian Kent]

Gordon,

Yes on the open ended sander. Absolute yes on the dust collector.

I have a Delta 18 / 36, which I recently used on a board wider than 18" I was quite surprised that the two sides matched up so well. I expected some kind of line of uneven sanding or change of sanding direction, but it did not happen.

I am a slow hobby woodworker so I don't mind occasionally using it as a thickness sander since I do not have a planer.

Brian

I just noticed - 1st post! Welcome, Gordon!

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I don't have one (yet), but I like the Jet oscillating open end model. It's a bit pricey at $2,000 though.

I'm basing my opinion on the observation that every tool that oscillates the sandpaper seems to work better. I'm assuming this will apply to drum sanders too.

-Jeff :)

[Ken Platt]

And I really like it. However, if it croaked tomorrow, I'd get a bigger one. I had no idea how much I was going to like and use this tool. I've used it for wider than 10 inches, the open end idea seems to work fine. I can't tell you how much nicer it is to happily sand figured pieces instead of cussing at the planer, trying to feed at an angle, moistening the board, etc.

I bought some big rolls of sandpaper and found it was very simple to cut my own strips.

Ken

[george wilson]

I'm going to repeat for the N'th time: Performax type open side sanders ARE flexible,and I would NOT have one. My Delta 18"-36" IS NOT flexible AT ALL,because the head does not move. It is made of 1/8" thick sheet steel securely welded. The conveyor moves.It is easily adjusted,and stays adjusted in making the wood parallel thickness all the way across. I have mine adjusted so that a WIDE board doesn't even move the needle of a .001" graduated dial caliper across its width.

I owned 2 thickness planer style drum sanders,and never could get the drums lined up to produce accurate,parallel sanded wood to my satisfaction. Plus,their paper was taped onto the roller ends with strapping tape. It was so much trouble to change grit,I just left the same paper on the roller. No problem with the Delta.

Dust collection was terrible with the closed sided drum sanders. Very messy,and we had a 20 HP dust collector at work. My Delta has excellent dust collecting with the well shaped little hood. Nearly nothing gets out of that sander.

The conveyor is MUCH better than those mushy soft rubber types,that let the wood sink in.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Gordon,

Welcome to the Creek, this is a great place as you will find out.

As you can see, everyone has their own opinion. Here's mine. I have a 37" Performax double drum sander, closed end. I prefer the closed end so their is no possible of flex. I don't know if I would buy the Performax again. However, I would get as large as I could and get a closed end.

George commented on rubber conveyor belts. Mine has the sandpaper type belt (hard). I can sand 1/4" X 1/4" ebony for pegs with no problem of them sinking into the rubber. The rubber ones look nicer. However, for me the sandpaper ones work better for my application.

With a drum sander you need excellent dust collections. The more the better.

You will use the sander more than you think.

Good luck, Sam

[Cary Falk]

I have the Grizzly 18/36 open end drum sander. I like it a lot. I use it more than I ever thought. I can get the drum to touch the conveyor belt so I can sand down to nothing if I wanted. I have sanded things up to 32" inches wide with no problems. I know the Jet is the industry standard, but I saw drum on a 16/32 bounce quite violently at a woodworking show once. They were probably doing something wrong but it was pretty disturbing. I have mentioned it before the other owners said their machines are rock solid. Buy your paper in bulk rolls and cut it yourself. It will be a lot cheaper. Look on Craig's List for a machine. That's where I found mine. I see the Jets and Deltas pretty often and we usually don't have a great used market around here. Welcome to the Creek.

[Gary Muto]

I have the Jet 22-44" open ended sander. At teh time it was only $100-150 more than the 16-32". I've used it for single pass 20" glue ups and got excellent results. I can't say that the results were flat to 0.001" but I know that the variation was less than 0.005". anything less than 0.01" and I'm really happy. The paper is easily changed too. My model has the sandsmart system which, with the 22" capacity caused me to buy Jet over Delta.
Downsides: Cost, finer grits (>180) can load easily and burn, the sanding is a slow process.

[Steve Southwood]

What about the small Jet benchtop? 1020 if I remember. Anybody know anything about it?

[george wilson]

Every Performax I ever looked at: I could put my finger against the drum housing,and my thumb against the conveyor,and easily lift the drum housing some. This with just one hand,mind you. THEY HAVE to be loose enough to be able to slide up and down for thickness adjustment,and it is a built in design flaw. TRY IT YOURSELF. Get the rigid head Delta,or the rigid head Grizzly(which looks the same,though I haven't tried one.) You won't be disappointed with flexing. Only problem I ever had was the conveyor wanting to track over to 1 side. The one I have at home doesn't do that.The Performax types have the same conveyor belt style. I think the Delta at work's conveyor belt might have been glued together slightly askew. New conveyor belts were $24.00. They don't seem to wear out,though.

[Bill Arnold]

I've had the 16-32 for several years and would hate to be without it. I get excellent results down to 1/8" and I've gone thinner by using a carrier board.

[David Peterson MN]

I love my performax 16-32. I never knew I would use it so much. I buy my paper from Klingspor and cut my own strips. Much cheaper this way.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have never used a drum sander myself (disclaimer). But what has kept me out of the market is that the open end sanders are the only ones in my price range at the capacity I would want.

But the open end sanders worry me for two reasons:

1) flex, as discussed
2) one of the main things I picture myself needing more than 18 to 22" of capacity is for sanding cabinet door panels. Of course that wouldn't work on an open end unit because you can't lay the door panels flat if they're wider than the width of the sander (without making a jig to support the panels in the middle).

I've thought a lot about getting one of these machines, but a closed end unit at the width I want is too expensive and takes up too much room for my shop. So I'll just stick with an ROS and some patience. :)

[Paul Johnstone]

1) flex, as discussed
2) one of the main things I picture myself needing more than 18 to 22" of capacity is for sanding cabinet door panels. Of course that wouldn't work on an open end unit because you can't lay the door panels flat if they're wider than the width of the sander (without making a jig to support the panels in the middle).


I have a closed end sander now. I used to have the Delta open ended 18/36. The Delta was a great sander, I just got the chance to get a bigger one.

There is no problem at all of flipping the panel and taking advantage of the open end. Now granted, I never tried on the full 36" width, but something like 24-28" is no problem at all (I've done it). No jig necessary.I did not get out the calipers to check the results :) , but the panels certainly came out good enough for woodworking.

[Matt Meiser]

I had the Delta 18/36. You have to take VERY light passes or it will burn, stall, or trip the overload on the belt. Snipe was an issue. And hooking a plastic hose to the plastic hood would shock the @#$% out of me regularly. The conveyor table was a bear to get both level and so it would work smooth. I took me a couple weeks to achieve both. Honestly I don't think it saved me any time for the kind of work I do either. What it was best at was leveling glue ups. Its not a finish sander. But I've also gotten better at my glueups so they need less leveling. Now if I cut a lot of my own veneers or did glue-lams it would be invaluable. Needless to say, I sold it. I know two others who've sold theirs too.

If I was going to get a new stationary sander, I'd go for a wide belt. Much more money, but leaves a very nice finish that requires little ROS sanding I'm not very impressed with the finish the big drum sanders leave. They level a panel nicely, but there's a lot of ROS sanding to be done after. Like Jeffery said, I think part of that is the lack of oscillation so you get a very straight-line scratch pattern which is really bad for a door or faceframe where there's some cross-grain sanding. But you are looking at $3500 for a 15" Grizzly.

[Erik Christensen]

I have the performax 22/44 oscillating sander. it works great - if it has flex I have not noticed it in the finished product. I leave it setup with 180 grit and with the oscillator engaged it turns out a pretty smooth board - at most a light pass with 220 ROS and then I am ready for stain/finish.

If I don't use it as much as I expected it is because I have not done much large panel glue ups (yet) and the finish from the 15" grizzly planer with spiral cutter-head does not need any further work.

[Paul Johnstone]

I. Like Jeffery said, I think part of that is the lack of oscillation so you get a very straight-line scratch pattern which is really bad for a door or faceframe where there's some cross-grain sanding. But you are looking at $3500 for a 15" Grizzly.

I am a big fan of drum sanders, but I agree. It is not a good idea to put a finished door or face frame through them .

When I do doors, I use the drum sander to sand all the pieces with the grain (before assembly). Then I glue it up, and ROS if necessary. You're right, the crossgrain scratches are a bear, so they must be avoided.

[Cary Falk]

I am a big fan of drum sanders, but I agree. It is not a good idea to put a finished door or face frame through them .

When I do doors, I use the drum sander to sand all the pieces with the grain (before assembly). Then I glue it up, and ROS if necessary. You're right, the crossgrain scratches are a bear, so they must be avoided.


I just ran some small mission looking doors that will have glass, instead of raised panels, through my sander on 120 grit. The doors are supper flat and the cross grain scratches came out very easily.

[Eddie Darby]

The 'V' Drum sander would be a nice kit to make for a small shop.

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/V_Drum_Sander.php

Videos

http://www.theonlinewoodshow.com/show/company.php?number=20102

I have the 18" drum. Here are some other peoples kits done.

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/Drum_Creations.php

[george wilson]

Matt,I really think operator training had something to do with the problems you had setting your Delta up. I only took about 15 minutes to get mine perfect. Measured both edges with a dial caliper,adjusted the elevating rods,did it again. After 3 or 4 times,I had it perfect.

Yes,any drum sander will burn the wood if you take too much off,or use too fine a grit. It isn't wise to go finer than 120 grit. I only adjust my sander about 1/4 turn OR LESS per pass.Often,I run a few times with the same setting.

I haven't been shocked by my unit's plastic hood,but do have a ground wire on my flexible hose that is attached to the sander. Do you have a ground? It could be an electrostatic generator without one. I've even used mine in the driest part of Winter without shocks.

I agree that a wide belt sander would be better,but I don't have the space for one,nor do I want to shell out big bucks. I used to use the 36" wide belt in the millwork shop near my toolmaker's shop in Williamsburg. But,they still moved the conveyor very little for each cut. The darned thing broke down 3 or 4 times during my days there. Being the local machinist,I repaired it-a good way to stay in good with that shop,and use their machines!!



P.S. Now you have heard exactly conflicting reports about the Delta open end drum sander. The Grizzly is very similar to the Delta,with a rigid head,if I recall correctly, that machine's owner was happy with it. Another guy was happy with his Delta. I must advise that using drum sanders does take finesse on the operator's part,and some patience setting it up. Being a machinist,and having proper measuring tools(a dial caliper here),and being used to working to very close tolerances,I found the Delta very easy to adjust. I have sanded some dozens of sets of guitar backs,sides,and tops with mine. It is a pleasure to have the 2 halves of a top or back match up in thickness when gluing,after having both of them be annoyingly tapered across the width from closed sided drum sanders.

One thing I haven't done with mine is run a heavy 36" wide panel through mine. I would have roller stands adjusted for height should I try to run something like that,supporting the outboard ends of the panel,because these are pretty light machines when it comes to the way they hold the wood down.

As I said before,I've sometimes had some snipe,but a piece of same thickness scrap butted up against the tail end of the board deals with that very well. Mind you,I am sanding down to 1/10" thick guitar tops. Wood that thin can spring up a bit.

[Matt Meiser]

No doubt it does. No, my hose wasn't grounded--plastic hose, plastic cover, nothing to ground. It was a @#$% to set up and I nearly gave up a few times. My Delta dealer was going to take it back to their other store where the one guy they had who could get them working smoothly was. Once I did get it right it stayed there. I don't think I said that above.

On the thin cut, that's pretty much my point. It takes a very thn cut, but still requires a fair amount of finish work. It really wasn't a timesaver for me. Like I said if you cut veneers then it would be incredibly useful for thicknessing that couldn't be done on a planer. On the other hand for panels, face frames, doors, etc--the widebelt would excel.

[Brian Muecke]

i own the delta and love it. i do not use it for finished goods. my primary use is for thicknessing lamination strips and veneers. it excels in this area.

minor leveling of the table was required, but it took no more than 45 minutes.

[John Coloccia]

I only use my Jet 22-44 (Performax, I guess) to thickness really thin stock. There's no appreciable flex. I'm thicknessing down to .8 or sometimes less and measuring with micrometers and dial indicators. If something's flexing, I'm not seeing it.

All that said, I personally think it's not a great finishing tool. I guess it's easier than going over a large panel with a Speed Bloc, but I don't generally do large items. If you're doing large items and just want to get the planer marks out, maybe it's OK. Then again, when I take a light skim pass on my planer, I get almost as good of a result, so I usually just do that instead.

Hint for reliably thicknessing very thin items. I've started using a sled to pass them through. It has sandpaper on one side for grip, but if the wood starts bending on me, I turn it over to the smooth side and just use a couple of pieces of double sided tape. The stuff I'm using is the stuff wood turners use that I buy from the local Woodcraft. It holds very firmly but can be removed without any damage. I've had good luck getting off without damage at least.

I wish I had a sander that could go thin without using a sled. I too am using it for instrument building, and it's annoying to pop the side off the double sided tape every time so I can test how flexible it is on every pass. Really...really...annoying.

[Mike Goetzke]

I've had a Performax 16/32 for a few years now. Thickness variation has really never been a concern till I read this post. I put a dial indicator on the free end bearing shaft and sure enough I can get 0.010" movement with my pinkie. But it gets progressively much harder to move after the 0.010". So maybe any size board will move the head but as long as it's set up to accommodate this things are fine? I mostly use it to sand wide panels and never had issues with big thickness variations.

Sometimes I have hesitated to use the drum sander because of the burning issues mentioned above. I had always used Performax paper. Recently I purchased a roll of abrasive from Industrial Abrasives. I had to cut the roll to size - no big deal, but, the results are almost night/day. I had to remove about 0.100" from some 26" x 36" panels and I didn't get any burning at all and I didn't have to constantly clean the paper with the big eraser. Plus the paper (really cloth) seems heavier gauge making it easier to install, although, I'm still looking at a method to shorten the roll installation - seems like I always need about two iterations and some fighting to get it straight and tight (I was thinking of marking the drum with a magic marker with the paper on it to use as a guide line next time).


Mike

[gordon mosher]

Thanks for all the replys

[david kramer]

I have the performax 16/32 and I can't say I love it. But I use it an awful lot. It's one of those tools that you don't know you need until you have it. Dust collection is non-negotiable, the tool doesn't work without it.

The issues I have with my sander are exactly the ones that people have pointed out here. Belt tracking and non-parallel planing, aka flex. After a lot of fiddling I seem to have reached a point where the belt tracks okay. And for the flex I pass the piece through one way and then spin it around and pass it through again, works just fine even with veneers that are 1/16th or so.

I've never used my sander on something that was wider than 16". Actually I'd say 14" is probably close to the limit. The reason being that the paper at the ends tends to have a little hump where it goes into the drum. So I don't use the 1" at the edge of the drums. Probably with some fussing and careful folding of the paper you could reduce this problem to an acceptable level.

David

[Ron Bontz]

I currently use a General 25" dual drum and like it for the most part. I had a Jet 22-44 and never had a problem with it. No flex issues. It is just not as quick as the General. I did my Kitchen cabinets with the 22-44. The max door width was only 21". If I had the room I would still have it. It's great for those thin pieces <1/4". Best of luck.:)