Building Noah's ark

[Luke Townsley]

How would you build Noah's Ark?

A question of Biblical proportions, this is more about woodworking than religion, so feel free to chip in regardless of your views. Let's have fun with this.

Let's assume some things.
Size: 450' long, 75' wide, 45' high (some would double that)
single window of 18"(possibly an opening of 18" around the top of the ark)
1 door
divided into rooms
3 stories
possibility of a tent covering on the upper deck
covered with pitch inside and out (probably petroleum based)
wood construction (there is no agreement about what gopher wood was - some would even argue it was a reed boat)
Finished in 2300 BC or as far back as about 50,000 BC

Furthermore, let's assume the boat had to withstand torrential, ongoing rains, some weird ocean currents, moderately heavy wind, and have some way to stabilize itself when it lands (it wouldn't do to have floors at 45 degree angles) There seem to be no particular requirements for propulsion although some ability to maneuver seems right handy.

It is generally depicted as being constructed on dry land. I can't think of any textual reasons that has to be so.

It has to be able to house a number of animals as well as 8 people.

You have to recreate it today using period-specific tools, woods, and techniques. How would you do it? What are the problems involved?

Happy Neandering!

[Jim Koepke]

You have to recreate it today using period-specific tools, woods, and techniques. How would you do it? What are the problems involved?

Since I know nothing about boat building, I would likely hire someone that does.

jim

[James Davis]

I was sent an e-mail about this the other day and went on line to find pictures. This is an amazing feat. http://www.worldwidechristian.net/Noah's%20Ark.htm

James

[Walter Plummer]

I just saw this the other day. "If Noah built the arc today" I think it is spot on. http://www.appleseeds.org/noah_today.htm

[Luke Townsley]

Since I know nothing about boat building, I would likely hire someone that does.

jim

Jim,
Actually, I would say you are eminently qualified since you probably have about the same interest and skill level in boat building that Noah did! ;-)

[Dave Jeske]

I assume that Noah and his sons must have had some carpentry skills but this would be one heck of a commission! All of life depended upon it being successful.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,
Actually, I would say you are eminently qualified since you probably have about the same interest and skill level in boat building that Noah did! ;-)

Well, if I could have the same supervisor to guide me, then sure.

jim

[Tony Bilello]

I was sent an e-mail about this the other day and went on line to find pictures. This is an amazing feat. http://www.worldwidechristian.net/Noah's%20Ark.htm

James

I saw a few different specials on TV about this very same question. It seems that a vessel that large cannot be built of wood because it would fall apart under its own weight. "Replica of Noah's Ark built by a Dutch contractor. It was built approximately to scale, however is 1/2 the length and 1/3 the width of the Biblical dimensions." AND built on top of a steel barge. No so amazing afterall but definitely a worthy project.

[Luke Townsley]

If one accepts literal Biblical accuracy, that is indeed an interesting question. If all of the earth's peoples were gathered together in one geographic area, why would there have been a need for shipping? If there were no shipping, how would anyone know enough to build a boat that large? I suppose God could have guided Noah each step of the way, but there is no indication of that in the text.

I suspect that the wooden boat size problem could be solved, but even today, how would one know if it were solved without some serious testing or at the very least some careful computer modelling?

Perhaps it was a multi-hulled boat. (Anyone want to do that in Sketchup?)

[Mike Henderson]

There are so many logical inconsistencies in the story of Noah's Ark that it has to be taken as an allegory and not as a description of a real boat. So any boat you chose to build will serve for the allegory.

Mike

[Brian Kent]

It is easier to picture in 2300 BC than in 50,000 BC because the bronze age didn't start until 2900 BC. I would really hate to do that joinery with stone tools. Maybe you could burn the tenon cheeks and the mortice and then knock away the char with flint.

The Wyoming was built in 1909 and sunk in 1924. It approached the length of the Ark, and about 2/3 its. width. It has massive problems with hogging, sagging and twisting that made it leak profusely, and finally sink.

The Ark did not need multiple voyages or propulsion. It just needed to float until the waters receded.

Now I just watched the authoritative movie on the subject - Evan Almighty - and that answered some of the questions. They got to use 19th century woodworking tools and all of the animals helped.;)

I did hear one interesting theory about why we haven't conclusively found the Ark yet. When the landed, they needed firewood and building materials much more than they needed to leave a relic for 21st century archaeologists to discover and get famous for.

Brian

[Keith Christopher]

Also remember that the story goes not only did it rain but the waters came up from the ground. This would certainly cause it to float before rising rains.

[Casey Gooding]

Many historians believe the Ark was built from Juniper, or a close relative.

[Eddie Darby]

If one accepts literal Biblical accuracy, that is indeed an interesting question. If all of the earth's peoples were gathered together in one geographic area, why would there have been a need for shipping? If there were no shipping, how would anyone know enough to build a boat that large? I suppose God could have guided Noah each step of the way, but there is no indication of that in the text.

I suspect that the wooden boat size problem could be solved, but even today, how would one know if it were solved without some serious testing or at the very least some careful computer modelling?

Perhaps it was a multi-hulled boat. (Anyone want to do that in Sketchup?)

Check your history out and you will see that there are over 400 ancient stories about forefathers building an ark to survive the flood.
I guess you could say that Ark stories are multi-cultural.

[Eddie Darby]

Many historians believe the Ark was built from Juniper, or a close relative.

I am sure that they do, but I think that they probably failed reading comprehension as a kid.

Genesis 6
14Make yourself an ark of gopher or cypress wood; make in it rooms (stalls, pens, coops, nests, cages, and compartments) and cover it inside and out with pitch (bitumen).

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Well, if I could have the same supervisor to guide me, then sure.

jim


I'd help too! :D

[Wilbur Pan]

How would you build Noah's Ark?


Step 1: figure out what a cubit is.

"Right!....What's a cubit?" ;)

[william scott]

Step 1: figure out what a cubit is.

"Right!....What's a cubit?" ;)

Yeah, Bill Cosbys' 'Noah' is a hoot to listen too, even after all these years.
I forget where I saw it, but a boat builder who had an interest in Noahs' ark speculated that the instructions left room to allow for an open pool in the middle of the boat that would help to stabilize the yawing motion. The result looked a bit like the Navys' ships that launch submersibles through a pool in the bottom of the hull.

That replica is one impressive ship and gives an idea of just how big of a boat we are talking about! You can put a lot of animals on board something that size and all it has to do is float.

[Luke Townsley]

I think it says something that no one is coming up with solid answers in spite of the inventiveness and expertise of members on this forum. My intuition is that there are a few reasons why.

1. We don't know for sure what wood or tools were used. My feeling is that it would have been some type of tree that grows large and straight grained and that has some resistance to bugs and rot.

2. We are thinking in terms of modern shipping with its hollow hulled boats.

Perhaps we are barking up the wrong tree as it were. The requirements were very different from those of a modern boat given that it didn't have to go anywhere. Also, it may not have had to hold much weight relative to modern boats (depending on whether you hold to a local flood or a worldwide flood). It could have been built more like a floating dock or series of floating docks than a boat.

Anyone care to offer an opinion about a raft like boat made of individually floating sections that moved up and down independently of each other or lashed together in some way that allows some movement? It seems low tech and well within the range of someone working with "primitive" edge tools pretty much eliminating the need for joinery. Also, the pitch makes sense to me to keep the base components sealed so it doesn't become waterlogged and lose its buoyancy.

[John McDonald]

If you have questions about Noah's Ark, check out these websites:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark
http://creation.com/noahs-ark-questions-and-answers
http://www.noahs-ark.net/
The last site is about Rod Walsh and the 2 meter model ark that he built and he uses as a bible ministry in Australia.

John

[harry strasil]

When White men first came to the shores of Eastern America, they brought clergy with them, and it was one of the Indians favorite pastimes for each visitor and the tribes story teller to give their stories of how they came to be.

The clergy got miffed at the Indians because they would not give up their beliefs in their superior being and immediately adopt the clergy's new religion.

One Chief or Medicine Man was supposed to have told the clergyman, "There are many Paths up the Mountain, but they all lead to the Top!"

[Harlan Coverdale]

If you have questions about Noah's Ark, check out these websites:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark
http://creation.com/noahs-ark-questions-and-answers
http://www.noahs-ark.net/
The last site is about Rod Walsh and the 2 meter model ark that he built and he uses as a bible ministry in Australia.

John
Sorry, I got as far as the dinosaur part in the first link and I had to stop. :rolleyes: I'll leave it at that.

[Luke Townsley]

Being a preacher, I have developed certain views of Biblical authority, Creation, the Flood, and so forth. I would be happy to discuss any of them with any of you. I find them to be quite interesting topics.

However, this is a woodworking forum, and I didn't start this thread to try to prove or disprove any particular theological question. I understand there are potentially theological implications in this question and that it is a hot button issue for some, but let's have fun with this and keep this discussion related to the building and practicalities of a boat such as is described in the Genesis account.

So, to my atheist and agnostic friends: keep boring holes in the plausibility of these construction models.

To my young earth creationist friends: Keep suggesting ways to build a boat that holds representatives of the whole world's animals. You have the advantage here, because you place the date more recent than anyone else and presumably have more tools to work with. However, your boat may have to stand up to more abuse than anyone else's due to the catastrophic nature of your flood.

To my old earth creationist friends: Keep talking about how to build a boat 40,000 years ago to hold representatives of Noah's animals and possibly the wild animals of the area for a regional flood.

To my evolutionary creationist friends: You probably put the story of Noah and the ark half a million or so years ago on the Mediterranean. Even if you consider the story an allegory, surely it had some basis in fact. Keep discussing it.

To my other friends: Wherever you fit in, just enjoy the discussion.

[Tony Bilello]

Dinosaurs died out about 50,000,000 years ago so how did they end up on the arc?
Of everyone who wants to support the theory of the ark actually being built, not one person, group or whatever actually ever built one to actual size. If it can be built, surely someone trying to make a point wouyld have done it by now. I see pictures that look like barns on stilts and another one built on top of a steel hull and a theory that that may have been several barges tied together. The last one is nowhere near the description given.
By the answers given and the backup info, this is a religious forum and not a woodworking forum. It does not offend me so I dont really care, but if we want to make it sound like a woodworking question, leave the animal part out of it.

[Luke Townsley]

Dinosaurs died out about 50,000,000 years ago so how did they end up on the arc?
Of everyone who wants to support the theory of the ark actually being built, not one person, group or whatever actually ever built one to actual size. If it can be built, surely someone trying to make a point wouyld have done it by now. I see pictures that look like barns on stilts and another one built on top of a steel hull and a theory that that may have been several barges tied together. The last one is nowhere near the description given.
By the answers given and the backup info, this is a religious forum and not a woodworking forum. It does not offend me so I dont really care, but if we want to make it sound like a woodworking question, leave the animal part out of it.

Tony,

There are practical arguments about how many animals could actually fit on the ark. It is a question that young earth creationists have struggled with for a long time since that model pretty much demands a global flood.

Literalistic views of the Bible vary in their estimates from including just about every animal that ever lived to just including some of Noah's personal livestock. Given that the animals affect the size, weight, stability, ventilation and other aspects, they are germane to the subject. However, given that we are all woodworkers and not all engineers or Bible scholars, as you say, it isn't as relevant to this particular discussion.

I have doubts a full sized replica of Noah's ark will ever be built for the same reasons that very few ships are ever modeled in detail and to original size.

Again, I intended this thread to be about how Noah's ark—or something similar to it—could have been built or why it couldn't have been built - not about whether or not it was built.

[Matt Stiegler]

Reading the OP and responses in this thread, it doesn't seem like a neander topic to me. More plausible choices, to my thinking, are boat building forum or off-topic forum.

[Tony Bilello]

Ok, here goes......
According to naval architects and engineers it is not feasable to design and build a wooden boat that size. It would fall apart under it's own weight. There have been numerous computer models proving this. There have been many TV shows and specials about this vary same topic. So that is my non-religious, non-political answer. I still stand by my original statement " If it can be built, surely someone trying to make a point would have done it by now. I see pictures that look like barns on stilts and another one built on top of a steel hull and a theory that that may have been several barges tied together. The last one is nowhere near the description given."
All building media have their limits and wood is not all that strong compared to other structural materials such as steel or concrete. Someone on here mentioned a wooden ship earlier that was the worlds largest, and all of it's problems due to its size. That ship was 100' shorter than the Ark and only 2/3 the width. In ship building, that is substantially smaller not just a little bit smaller. I hope this answers the question on why I think it could not have been built as stated.
Regards

Tony B

[Luke Townsley]

Here is the wikipedia article about The Wyoming - what it calls the largest wooden schooner ever built. It is said to have been 330 feet long - very significantly smaller than our guesses at the size of Noah's boat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_(schooner)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_wooden_ships

It seems clear that the technical problems of building a wooden hollow single hulled boat that is extremely large are pretty daunting even with modern technology and experience.

To make this feasible, it seems to me that we have to have a boat that allows for significant structural movement and that can be build on the water so as to enable "on-site" testing and to allow the timbers to be floated from the forests down the rivers to the ocean.