Why do I need an expensive planner?

[scott vroom]

Local dealers in the SF Bay Area charge only 20 cents/bd ft premium to surface all sides. Why would I need to invest in an expensive floor planner? I don't see the payback ocurring in my lifetime. I just purchased a Griz TS & 8" jointer, is this enough for Shaker style cabinets and bedroom furniture? I was under the impression that rough wood was MUCH less expensive than finished but that is not true in my area.

[Frank Martin]

Wood moves/warps/twists even after you get it from the lumberyard, which you will need to address as you are building
You will quickly realize some parts will need to be thinner than the wood you have at hand
Just like TS and jointer, planer helps with processing your stock as you build in creating a second surface parallel to the jointed one
Of course to do all of this you do not necessarily need a floor model. You can get a cheaper bench top model from Dewalt, Delta, etc, which is what I started with. One thing I could absolutely not tolerate was the high pitch noise from the universal motor of the planer. Then I upgraded to a 12" Grizzly J/P with spiral head which works very well for me. Another avenue to pursue is getting a good condition used machine if you decide to go this route...

[Brian Kent]

My opinion is that if your lumber source sells finished lumber at a reasonable price, the planer goes further down the list of needed tools.

I do think that a band saw and either a planer or drum sander go together. There is always some cleanup to do after resawing.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Scott, Brian and Frank have good points. I didn't even have a planer for 6 years when I started. It did not limit what I built in the least. There are plenty of ways to change somethings thickness using other methods, or different planning. That being said though, one will certainly open up the possibilities and speed up the work flow.

The second question on this type of discussion is usually which tools to buy first, and my experiances lead me to always recommend a jointer as the second tool behind the table saw. Planer always moves down the list for me.

[scott spencer]

I guess it depends on what you call expensive. It's possible to get a very good planer in the $300 range. The benefit is the flexibility of not needing to rely on a supplier and the restrictions of their operating hours. Also, not everyone has a wood supplier near by, and not all offer planing services.

[Paul Ryan]

The second question on this type of discussion is usually which tools to buy first, and my experiances lead me to always recommend a jointer as the second tool behind the table saw. Planer always moves down the list for me.


I agree with Steve, I woodworked for about 5 years and did just fine with out a planer. It just depends what kind of material you buy. It doesn't save that much by planing your own wood because with a lunch box planer it takes time. But once you have one they come in handy and mine now gets used everytime I build something. It is nice being able to guarantee all of my stock is exactly the same thinkness once it has been cut to size. Ocasionally my supplier only has 6/4 cut and then sells it to me for the same price as 5/4. Then I use my planer as well.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I have a sears lunchbox planer that while loud does a great job on finishing boards. One concern would be wether the lumber yard actually joints one surface on the jointer so that it is perfectly flat or if it goes through the planer for both sides. In that case you aren't getting the benifts of the jointer..

That said if their stock is good and the faces are parallel with eachother you could use your jointer to thickness stock I suppose. Once it has gone through a planer and both faces are parallel to eachother I don't see why you couldn't use your jointer to reduce the thickness on the piece...

Lots of ways to skin a cat..

[Paul Steiner]

The reason you need an expensive planer is because he who dies with the most toys wins.

[Matt Day]

If you want to mill rough stock yourself, and deal with warp/twist that may come from pre-milled stock, and you don't want to use hand tools, I think you really need one. You have a nice jointer - compliment it with at least a decent lunchbox planer.

[Prashun Patel]

You can probably get away without one, but consider 2 things:

1) They are faster and more accurate than a jointer in making multiple pieces a consistent thickness. I find this useful when gluing up planks into a table top.

2) Some of the benchtop models are unobtrusive and economical.

Personally, I find a benchtop planer one of the best values in shop tools.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I have a Makita box planer and it's one of my favorite tools to use because it's so easy to just shove a stick of wood in there and watch it come out the other end.

Like mentioned above, I buy pre-milled lumber but it's never perfect and there are always instances where I need the wood to be thinner. This is where the thickness planer comes in handy.

Even if your board is milled perfect, you can shave off a small hair to expose fresh grain or remove imperfections. Then the only sanding you'll need is to remove any planer marks which can mean less sanding.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

IMO convience plays a major role. The local BORG charges ONLY 25 cents to cut a tile. I re-tiled 2 baths. 75 tiles or so. IF I cut every single tile it would be 20 bucks or so. I still bought their cheapo tile saw. Why? I would get extremely tired of measuring and then stopping, and driving there to get the tile cut. And of course, you'll make a mistake, and have to get another tile cut. So, for my personal time it was well worth spending 80 bucks to save the 5 dollars I would have spent on them cutting tiles for me..... Makes no sense as far as dollars, but time is gold too. Same would apply to a planer. You could stop and get a board surfaced.....

[James Carmichael]

I can't speak to a "planner" but as for a planer: If you have a jointer, it's only 1/2 of the equation. The jointer is used to make the board face and edge flat, the planer takes it down to desired thickness, and, most importantly, makes the opposing face parallel to the flat one.

The beauty of the j/p combo isn't cost savings from buying rough lumber (unless you or a buddy own a sawmill), it's the ability to flatten and mill stock to any needed thickness.

If you're buying S2S lumber that is perfectly flat and the exact thickness you want, then I guess you don't need a planer, but then you shouldn't need a jointer, either.

[phil harold]

This man took the words out of my keyboard!!!


IMO convience plays a major role. The local BORG charges ONLY 25 cents to cut a tile. I re-tiled 2 baths. 75 tiles or so. IF I cut every single tile it would be 20 bucks or so. I still bought their cheapo tile saw. Why? I would get extremely tired of measuring and then stopping, and driving there to get the tile cut. And of course, you'll make a mistake, and have to get another tile cut. So, for my personal time it was well worth spending 80 bucks to save the 5 dollars I would have spent on them cutting tiles for me..... Makes no sense as far as dollars, but time is gold too. Same would apply to a planer. You could stop and get a board surfaced.....

[J.R. Rutter]

As others have mentioned, surfaced lumber is not the same as flattened lumber. I buy 4/4 hardwoods "hit and missed" to 15/16 so that we can read the color and grain before cutting and milling. Most of it is only approximately flat. Once you rough cut parts, your jointer / planer combo lets you flatten them to identical thickness. But I also had the experience of doing without a planer OR jointer for many years and found ways to work around it, including hand selecting flat lumber and laboriously straightening on the table saw.

[Joe Jensen]

Local dealers in the SF Bay Area charge only 20 cents/bd ft premium to surface all sides. Why would I need to invest in an expensive floor planner? I don't see the payback ocurring in my lifetime. I just purchased a Griz TS & 8" jointer, is this enough for Shaker style cabinets and bedroom furniture? I was under the impression that rough wood was MUCH less expensive than finished but that is not true in my area.

I think it depends on what quality and precision you want in your work. I didn't have a planer for the first 10 years of woodworking hobby. I think my work was nice and I was never embarrassed to show it to anyone. BUT, I spent a lot of time flattening panels and dealing with wood that didn't stay flat and straight when ripped. Once I got a planer I stopped buying finished lumber not to save $.20 a bd foot, but to ensure each piece of wood I use in a project is flat and straight.

Do this. Take any piece of wood that you have ripped from a larger board and set it on the table saw top. Does it rock? If yes, this is why you want both a jointer and a planer.

here is how I work.
1) Cut a little oversize each piece I need for a project from rough lumber. When I cut I usually see the wood warp as internal stresses are relieved.
2) Use the jointer to make one face flat.
3) Use the planer to make it consistent thickness. I try to remove about the same amount from both sides between the jointing and planing to keep the board flat.
4) Use the jointer to make one edge flat
5) Use the TS to rip to width
6) Cut one end at 90
7) Cut the other end at 90

I do this for every board. If I prepare more than I will use in the next day or so, say for gluing up panels for doors, I'll find the wood moves and warps, and it's hard to have it glue up nicely.

Since doing it this way, I haven't used a belt sander on a glue'd up panel, I haven't had to. All the boards are flat and straight, and I mean REALLY flat and straight, and everything just goes together easily.

I won't buy surfaced lumber because it gives me less wood to work with when I need to remove warp and twist.

[Mike Nguyen]

As a hobby, sometimes you buy tools because it's too cheap not just to buy and think about what you're going to use later. I started woodworking about 2 years ago and so far all I built are built-ins for my house and all I need were a table saw, router table, and a miter saw. I never thought about other machines because I never need them for things I built. I just picked up a Ridgid jointer (thanks to Crhis Tsutsui) and a Delta TP-305 because they are dirt cheap. Since I have these 2 new machine, I started seeing more posibilites for those ugly 2x4 as I use them to build shop stuff such as a mobile base. But for those time when you want to make something like 2x4 nicer and/or right thickness and flat, these machines come in handy. So far 2x4 is the only thing that I run through a jointer and planner.:mad:
Mike

[Dick Sylvan]

Local dealers in the SF Bay Area charge only 20 cents/bd ft premium to surface all sides. Why would I need to invest in an expensive floor planner? I don't see the payback ocurring in my lifetime. I just purchased a Griz TS & 8" jointer, is this enough for Shaker style cabinets and bedroom furniture? I was under the impression that rough wood was MUCH less expensive than finished but that is not true in my area.
For many years I lived without an iPod,iPhone, cable TV, the internet, GPS, HDTV,personal computer,cabinet saw, jointer,planer, router, etc. I have them all right now. I think you can always live without certain things. Much of the world lives with none of these things. It justs makes things more convenient, sometimes more fun, and sometimes a pain in the ....... It's all a personal preference.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Scott - this one is easy - "expensive" depends on each person's relative view. I don't think Ornellaia or Sassicaia are "expensive" wines, I think they're a good value for what you get. It is not a daily table wine for me by about 200 miles, though. I do think Opus One is outrageously priced (that oughta start something!!), but that is exactly my point.

If you don't get a planer to start out, you can always pick one up later if/when you see a need. There is no downside with this approach - likelihood of successful outcome = 100%.

On the other hand, if you DO get one, you might see you needed it, or you might have a whiskey-tango-foxtrot moment and regret the $$. Can't call the odds of successful outcome with that approach, but it HAS TO BE under 100%.

I put $$ into a planer right out of the gate, and never regretted a penny, but - hey - that's me.

[Doug Shepard]

Between sawing, jointing, and planing the last one that's needed is most often planing. If I'm trying to keep grain/figure running from one piece to another it's rare that I dont have hardwood that doesn't require a fair bit of back and forth between all 3 to get boards broke down into finished pieces. That would make for an awful lot of back and forth driving to my hardwood dealer. I do use them for jointing/planing if I'm buying something wider than my jointer or planer will allow.

[glenn bradley]

I got away without a jointer for quite awhile using a planer sled. I would not have wanted to get along without the planer by going somewhere else every time I needed to thickness a board. YMMV.

[Curt Harms]

[QUOTE=Joe Jensen;1231942

here is how I work.
1) Cut a little oversize each piece I need for a project from rough lumber. When I cut I usually see the wood warp as internal stresses are relieved.
2) Use the jointer to make one face flat.
3) Use the planer to make it consistent thickness. I try to remove about the same amount from both sides between the jointing and planing to keep the board flat.
4) Use the jointer to make one edge flat
5) Use the TS to rip to width
6) Cut one end at 90
7) Cut the other end at 90

I do this for every board. If I prepare more than I will use in the next day or so, say for gluing up panels for doors, I'll find the wood moves and warps, and it's hard to have it glue up nicely.

.[/QUOTE]
I work with air dry wood which may make a difference. If I'm not going to work with the freshly milled stock immediately, I sticker it and put a little weight on top. I don't get elaborate, just a couple tools boxes or something. I suspect the math is different in the Bay area than it is here in S.E. PA. but between the flexibility and cost saving buying rough stock, having both jointing and planing capabilities is worth it.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

It can be a question of preference.
I did without for years
Now, I don't know how I drew breath with out it.

[george wilson]

I assure you that even if the stock is flat and parallel on both sides,running it over a jointer a few times will result in a non-parallel board.

If your projects are very much the same in material thickness needs,you could get along without a planer,I suppose. There is always the problem of your wood warping,though. My aim is to be prepared to do almost anything,and my work is quite varied. I need a planer,and thickness sander.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

If you are going to have one or the other I would take the planer.

A jointer can make one side flat and straighten an edge. But it cannot make two sides parallel. A planer makes two sides parallel and if you use a sled you can face joint to make one side flat. And of course it can reduce stock to the desired thickness.

For a straight edge you can use the table saw and a jig. Or a router and router table.

But with the low price of used tools why not have both?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Guys, the way to get by without a planer is to buy S3S. You'll need to handplane, sand, scrape or something the surface a bit more to get to finish, but it is very possible. You change thicknesses buy "resawing" on the tablesaw, then using creative glueups. Not easy, or efficient, but effective. The important thing in that instance is to be able to do good glue lines, so the use of a jointer is necessary for edge jointing, not surface jointing. IMHO, there is no good way to glue line rip reliably on a conventional tablesaw. The jointer makes good joints possible. You can't do that with a planer sled I don't think. Could be wrong about that, but I never figured it out.

[David Keller NC]

Guys, the way to get by without a planer is to buy S3S. You'll need to handplane, sand, scrape or something the surface a bit more to get to finish, but it is very possible. You change thicknesses buy "resawing" on the tablesaw, then using creative glueups. Not easy, or efficient, but effective.

I would disagree - it is not possible to buy lumber at a mill or lumberyard and have it run through the machines immediately after you buy it, get it home, have even a reasonably hurried period of time to build the piece of furniture, and have a snowball's chance of wood wider than 4" staying acceptably flat. Just sunlight on one face of the board in the back of the pickup driving it home will be more than sufficient to warp it.

And if the lumber's figured, it'll have even more of a tendency to "get out of retangular".

But the OP doesn't have to buy a planer - he can, of course, do it with handplanes. That is how I prep most of my lumber, though I do own a DW735.

But what I think most replies have missed is asking the OP why he doesn't want a planer, or an equivalent set of handplanes and a bench. If the response is because he "wants to save money, not spend it", then he's not read one of the many threads on why building furniture yourself doesn't save money. Even the lumber for a humble SYP trestle table is going to cost what a decent lunchbox planer's going to cost. A similar trestle table out of considerably nicer cherry or (in his neck of the woods) redwood is going to cost considerably more than a planer - just for the wood.

If the answer is that he doesn't have room for it, one would wonder why one of the high-performance lunchbox planers is too large for a shop with an 8" jointer.

[Chip Lindley]

Usually, if one must as WHY...they have not discovered a NEED to apply the ANSWER....yet!

In my 1980s woodworking infancy, I found MUCHO rough hardwood lumber at farm liquidation sales during the Reagan Era!! I bought rough red & white oak, walnut, ash, pecan, sycamore and cherry wayyy cheap! I also had access to much *dunnage* from railcars. Oak and maple 4x4s, 2x6's, etc. I paid $900 (used) for my Rockwell RC33, and it has paid for itself many many times over, thicknessing rough lumber!

If your source is S4S stock for projects, you can certainly try to go it without a thickness planer. Sooner or later the *lightbulb* will come on IF the need for a thicknesser becomes a prime concern.

Actually, a wide drum sander may serve you better than a planer when stock is already relatively sized.

[Allan Froehlich]

I have the Dewalt 13 inch planer and it works very well. I picked it up about 2 years ago and the quality of my work changed overnight. You will quickly find out that a knot will put a nice ding in the blades of the dewalt. If you have some good hand tools, this really is not a problem.

If you plan on spending enough to get this planer, I reccomend that you spend the 2-300 more for a planer with a spiral cutterhead with indexable cutters. The blades last alot longer and they are much cheaper to replace. The larger machines are also much quiter when they run.

[Peter Quinn]

No planer? Are you serious? I'm going to take off the kid gloves and welcome you to the 21st century. Almost all joinery of any quality is based on stock that starts at 90 degree angles. Take more than 1/4" off most boards that are rectangular, and the wood moves and you lose that square reference. Preparing stock is a matter of moving towards square in a series of reducing motions. A planer is a very fast and effective part of that equation. You can buy all the S4S you want, and it may save you some chip collection by doing so, but you will be limited to standard thickness and vexed when you start to cut mill prepared stock into smaller parts.

You can do it all with hand planes surely, but that is expensive both in terms of time, labor, skill and tooling. I have single hand planes that cost more than my used DC-380, and other hand planes bought from flea markets which required so much restoration that had I paid myself a reasonable wage to do so I could have purchased several floor planers.

In short I question your central assumption that floor planers are expensive. Factor in all the variables related to preparing stock for fine wood working, and todays modern small shop planers are possible the best value in the history of wood working in my mind. The millwork operation I work for charges $0.20 per foot to surface lumber, but $1 per minute to "flatten" stock, and it takes a lot of minutes to truly flatten things, and they must be cut close to final dimension. Having the ability to dimension flat stock in your own shop will greatly facilitate your work, and a planer goes a long way towards achieving that goal.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I would disagree - it is not possible to buy lumber at a mill or lumberyard and have it run through the machines immediately after you buy it, get it home, have even a reasonably hurried period of time to build the piece of furniture, and have a snowball's chance of wood wider than 4" staying acceptably flat. Just sunlight on one face of the board in the back of the pickup driving it home will be more than sufficient to warp it.

And if the lumber's figured, it'll have even more of a tendency to "get out of retangular".



David, that would be a fun thread, "Just how flat do I need to build fine furniture?". I'm guessing that we could provide spirited debate! Wood moves. The key to building things that last is to allow for it to move without destroying everything. Even that perfectly square stock you just milled yourself will move. Geeze, we ought to start up a new thread Sunday, I'll be gone tomorrow....

[David Keller NC]

David, that would be a fun thread, "Just how flat do I need to build fine furniture?". I'm guessing that we could provide spirited debate! Wood moves. The key to building things that last is to allow for it to move without destroying everything. Even that perfectly square stock you just milled yourself will move. Geeze, we ought to start up a new thread Sunday, I'll be gone tomorrow....

You are of course correct that you must allow for expansion and contraction in width when building furniture. But what I was referring to was bow/cup and twist. Furniture is usually built to constrain this type of movement, not allow for it.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's near idiotic to try to surface wood to within 0.001 inch of being flat, true and square at the time that you build the piece. However, it's dang frustrating to try to wrench a case side that's cupped 1/4" across its width into the joint that you've cut, and it's also really frustrating to get a cleanly and consistently cut a rabbet, dado or groove into such a board. And 1/4" across the width of a 12" board is really, really common - it's why the recommendation is to buy the lumber and let it set in your shop's humidity for several weeks before you attempt to square it up and use it. I suspect the OP will learn this lesson extremely quickly - he will buy some really nice S4S cherry in the 10" wide range that was flat at the lumber yard, and find that it's 1/4" or more out of flat within one or two days in his shop's humidity.

[Joe Jensen]

You are of course correct that you must allow for expansion and contraction in width when building furniture. But what I was referring to was bow/cup and twist. Furniture is usually built to constrain this type of movement, not allow for it.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's near idiotic to try to surface wood to within 0.001 inch of being flat, true and square at the time that you build the piece. However, it's dang frustrating to try to wrench a case side that's cupped 1/4" across its width into the joint that you've cut, and it's also really frustrating to get a cleanly and consistently cut a rabbet, dado or groove into such a board. And 1/4" across the width of a 12" board is really, really common - it's why the recommendation is to buy the lumber and let it set in your shop's humidity for several weeks before you attempt to square it up and use it. I suspect the OP will learn this lesson extremely quickly - he will buy some really nice S4S cherry in the 10" wide range that was flat at the lumber yard, and find that it's 1/4" or more out of flat within one or two days in his shop's humidity.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/1.jpg

[James Carmichael]

If the answer is that he doesn't have room for it, one would wonder why one of the high-performance lunchbox planers is too large for a shop with an 8" jointer.

Ditto that. It's say it's false economy to balk at a lunchbox planer as too expensive when you've got an 8" jointer.

Really, there's almost no point in having the jointer without a thickness planer.

[Mike Heidrick]

As to making room for a lunchbox....

Depending on your router table space and fence design you could elevate the planer above it. I used to do that back when I had my router table.

[David Freed]

Like several have already said, it depends what you consider a "need". The Amish around me don't "need" to own a car or pickup, but I seriously doubt if anyone reading this would say they don't need one.

I have never really understood the point of spending so much time "flattening" lumber. I have sold over 100,000 bf of planed lumber to local cabinet shops (that are known for quality work), and have never used a jointer. I plane it to the thickness they want and they cut it to size and build cabinets. They all own planers, but they figure they can make more money putting cabinets together than planing lumber.

[scott vroom]

You are of course correct that you must allow for expansion and contraction in width when building furniture. But what I was referring to was bow/cup and twist. Furniture is usually built to constrain this type of movement, not allow for it.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's near idiotic to try to surface wood to within 0.001 inch of being flat, true and square at the time that you build the piece. However, it's dang frustrating to try to wrench a case side that's cupped 1/4" across its width into the joint that you've cut, and it's also really frustrating to get a cleanly and consistently cut a rabbet, dado or groove into such a board. And 1/4" across the width of a 12" board is really, really common - it's why the recommendation is to buy the lumber and let it set in your shop's humidity for several weeks before you attempt to square it up and use it. I suspect the OP will learn this lesson extremely quickly - he will buy some really nice S4S cherry in the 10" wide range that was flat at the lumber yard, and find that it's 1/4" or more out of flat within one or two days in his shop's humidity.

So is your solution to buy all 1" stock thus allowing you to plane a 1/4" cup out of the board to end up with a desired 3/4" board?

[David Keller NC]

So is your solution to buy all 1" stock thus allowing you to plane a 1/4" cup out of the board to end up with a desired 3/4" board?

Yep, though I usually buy 5/4 rough stock. Most of the work I do requires 7/8" thick finished dimensions, so the 5/4 gets planed down to that. If 1/2" is required for drawer sides and smaller things, it gets re-sawn.

But it does depend on the species - 5/4 is necessary for unstable species like oak, maple, and sometimes cherry. Mahogany, not so much. One can usually get a 7/8" thick acceptably flat board out of 4/4 rough stock.

[scott vroom]

Yep, though I usually buy 5/4 rough stock. Most of the work I do requires 7/8" thick finished dimensions, so the 5/4 gets planed down to that. If 1/2" is required for drawer sides and smaller things, it gets re-sawn.

But it does depend on the species - 5/4 is necessary for unstable species like oak, maple, and sometimes cherry. Mahogany, not so much. One can usually get a 7/8" thick acceptably flat board out of 4/4 rough stock.

Thanks for the response, David. When buying rough stock, how can you tell what the planned board will look like? Do you end up with much scrap? My local supplier sells 1" rough and I need to end up with 3/4" finished. I can afford buying a Griz 15" spiral planer, I just want to make sure I really need it and that it is truly cost effective Vs hand selecting straight/flat S4S from the local lumberyard (Southern Lumber in San Jose; it's a huge yard and they stock thousands of board feet of S4S which I'm free to pick through). By the way, if I decide on a planer, it will probably be a Griz 15" floor with spiral Vs a NOISY lunchbox (I live in the suburbs and don't want to disturb the neighbors).

[Rick Moyer]

If you can afford that planer, I would say get it. At some point in your woodworking you will have a need for a planer so you may as well get it now.

[Stephen Edwards]

As to making room for a lunchbox....

Depending on your router table space and fence design you could elevate the planer above it. I used to do that back when I had my router table.

That's a very good use of the space, Mike.

[David Keller NC]

Thanks for the response, David. When buying rough stock, how can you tell what the planned board will look like? Do you end up with much scrap? My local supplier sells 1" rough and I need to end up with 3/4" finished. I can afford buying a Griz 15" spiral planer, I just want to make sure I really need it and that it is truly cost effective Vs hand selecting straight/flat S4S from the local lumberyard (Southern Lumber in San Jose; it's a huge yard and they stock thousands of board feet of S4S which I'm free to pick through). By the way, if I decide on a planer, it will probably be a Griz 15" floor with spiral Vs a NOISY lunchbox (I live in the suburbs and don't want to disturb the neighbors).

Telling what the planed board will look like is a tough one. It's something I can reasonably reliably do, but it's a learned skill that comes with experience. It also depends on the particular species - maple, for example, develops a corrugated surface if it's highly curled. In general, the corrugated surface exactly cooresponds to what the figure will look like underneath when its planed.

Some lumber yards are OK with you taking a handplane with you and planing off a portion of the board to see what the figure will look like when planed. A block plane is ideal for this purpose - it's short enough that you're not flattening the board (and taking a lot off), and it gets you past the bandsaw marks to see what a representative section of the board will look like.

What I might suggest to you on the machine purchase is to consider doing some of this by hand (with a plane) unless you've a huge amount of interior woodwork you need to do in your house, or a suite of furniture to build. There's no doubt that a powered planer is very nice to have, but it is also a considerable investment for a machine like you're suggesting (a 15" with a spiral head). And you will still be limited to 15" wide. Planes are practically unlimited - I finished a mahogany dining table this yeat that I made out of a 37" wide board. I definitely not have been able to afford the planer necessary to dress that board with power.

And - understand that all planers are really loud - lunchbox or bigger and beefier.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

And - understand that all planers are really loud - lunchbox or bigger and beefier.

And if the planer isn't too obtrusive don't forget to factor in the dust/chip collector. You cannot run a 15" planer without one.

That being said I live in suburbia and the induction motors are significantly quieter than the lunchbox planer. I still try not to do it much past 9pm.

But it sounds to me like you should pick up a lunchbox planer and see what you think. Check craigslist and you can probably get one for < 200$. And if you decide you really want that 15" spiral cutterhead the lunchbox still has a place in your shop because it can do finer cuts without leaving roller marks on the wood.

[Joe Jensen]

Like several have already said, it depends what you consider a "need". The Amish around me don't "need" to own a car or pickup, but I seriously doubt if anyone reading this would say they don't need one.

I have never really understood the point of spending so much time "flattening" lumber. I have sold over 100,000 bf of planed lumber to local cabinet shops (that are known for quality work), and have never used a jointer. I plane it to the thickness they want and they cut it to size and build cabinets. They all own planers, but they figure they can make more money putting cabinets together than planing lumber.

Me thinks those cabinet shops use a straight line rip saw to get straight edges ($10K -$30K), and very large wide belt sanders to flatten the doors. I'd hardly call that work fine cabinet making.

If you want to skip the planer, and either buy a $20K 20HP wide belt, or spend LOTS of time making very small passes with a hobby shop drum sander, or LOTS and LOTS of time with a belt or aggressive orbital sander. It's your call. Or you could buy the straight line rip saw and big wide belt sander.

[David Freed]

Me thinks those cabinet shops use a straight line rip saw to get straight edges ($10K -$30K)
I would straight line rip the lumber for some, others would do it themselves. In my comment I said flattening the board, not straightening the edges.



.....and very large wide belt sanders to flatten the doors.
Of course they use wide belt sanders; they are not hobby woodworkers.



I'd hardly call that work fine cabinet making
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that just because a business buys the equipment to do the work fast and efficiently they can't do quality work? I don't think they are able to sell cabinets for up to $200,000 that go into multi-million dollar homes by doing shoddy work.

[David Keller NC]

But it sounds to me like you should pick up a lunchbox planer and see what you think. Check craigslist and you can probably get one for < 200$. And if you decide you really want that 15" spiral cutterhead the lunchbox still has a place in your shop because it can do finer cuts without leaving roller marks on the wood.

Scott - This may be the best advice on this thread. While I do favor the "once and done" philosophy when buying tools, it's really difficult to predict your needs in the next 10 years. I started out as a power-tool only guy, and used a Delta "lunchbox" planer for years. I then upgraded to a Dewalt 735. I was seriously considering snagging my grandfather's 15" planer heavy-duty Powermatic when he passed away, but passed it up because I'd started steering towards prepping stock with handplanes.

Now the DW735 mostly sets quietly in one corner of the shop - it only gets pulled out when I've some "rough and ready" work to do that involves several hundred board feet of lumber - mostly carpentry stuff.

[Joe Jensen]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that just because a business buys the equipment to do the work fast and efficiently they can't do quality work? I don't think they are able to sell cabinets for up to $200,000 that go into multi-million dollar homes by doing shoddy work.

No, not what I was saying. What I am trying to say is that unless one has a large powerful wide belt sander and a quick way to straight line rip, doing glue ups will involve either lots of passes through a hobbiest grade drum sander or lots of tedious sanding with belt or disc sanders. I would also maintain that the work coming out of shops that don't flattend their boards before using them do not put out the highest grade (fine funiture). I'm not saying a shop can't sell a ton of cabinets that way, in fact, I doubt you can make money in kitchen cabinets any other way. But it is MNSHO that this work is not "fine furniture".

[Thomas S Stockton]

After reading all of the comments which offer some good ideas I found one major point missing. That is that unless your always going to use lumber that is 3/4" or 1 3/4" thick your going to need a planer and that relying on those dimensions can tend to create boring furniture. Yes you can find planed 5/4 and 6/4 but it is not as common. I was always taught by my teachers to base the thickness of wood used in projects on what looks right and not on what you can get at the lumber yard
. A great example is drawer sides I usually go for something around a 1/2" thick but if it is a small drawer I will go thinner because it looks better, same thing for a large drawer I would go thicker than 1/2" going for what looks correct to my eye.
My last point would be I have seen some really, really nice boards ruined by the planers at lumberyards, especially in any type of figured wood.
Tom

[Jacob Mac]

Give it a go without one. See how you do. If you notice you need it, there is your answer. If you get by without one, well, then you have your answer.

Or you can just buy a few hand planes and be done with it.

[Larry Edgerton]

I disagree with those who think it is not an important part of the shop. I will go tablesaw then planer/jointer with the jointer and planer really being a team.

I hate it when moldings are not properly proportioned simply because that is what the stock comes in, it screams amateur to my eye. The difference between 5/8 and 3/4 can be huge and glaring. Many of the moldings I make are large, a planer is important to me. I spent a large chunk on an SCMI and I have not regreted that decision one bit, and in fact wish I had done it sooner.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

IMHO planer and jointer go together. If you don't get the planer, the need of the jointer is questionable. I have a Delta 12.5" lunchbox planer and use it a lot.

[Cary Falk]

Expensive is relative. I think a used one off of Craig's List would do. It was one of my last purchases. I used to plan my projects around wood dimensions that I could buy. Now my only design limitation is my skill.:eek: Of course with a planer, dust collection needs to follow quickly if you don't already have it.

[David Freed]

But it is MNSHO that this work is not "fine furniture".

I think I agree with you.

Fine furniture is made by someone that takes their time and is meticulous in every step of the process. Only high dollar materials are used. People with the mind set that money is no object will pay extremely high prices for it.

High quality furniture is done by someone that makes sure it is built properly in a production setting using quality materials. People that would never consider paying the exorbitant prices for fine furniture will pay good money for high quality furniture.

If properly taken care of, both will last a very long time.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

You are of course correct that you must allow for expansion and contraction in width when building furniture. But what I was referring to was bow/cup and twist. Furniture is usually built to constrain this type of movement, not allow for it.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's near idiotic to try to surface wood to within 0.001 inch of being flat, true and square at the time that you build the piece. However, it's dang frustrating to try to wrench a case side that's cupped 1/4" across its width into the joint that you've cut, and it's also really frustrating to get a cleanly and consistently cut a rabbet, dado or groove into such a board. And 1/4" across the width of a 12" board is really, really common - it's why the recommendation is to buy the lumber and let it set in your shop's humidity for several weeks before you attempt to square it up and use it. I suspect the OP will learn this lesson extremely quickly - he will buy some really nice S4S cherry in the 10" wide range that was flat at the lumber yard, and find that it's 1/4" or more out of flat within one or two days in his shop's humidity.

You are right David, but you also bring up another issue, most of us cannot finish a project quickly enough for the freshly milled stock we prepped to not move a little, so one of the little details of this skillset is learning how to deal with a slight cup, bow, twist, wane or whatever without completely rebuilding all of the project. I planer will not eliminate that need.

I disagree that not having a planer will limit you to 3/4" or whatever the yard milled your stock too. You will have to be more creative to get the dimension that you want, but it's very possible. For instance, the bed that I built as my first serious project included 88, 1/2" x 1/2" slats. Now, I'd just plane a board to 1/2", then rip the slats, but then I ripped to 1/2", then ripped the resulting 3/4" x 1/2" slat again to yield the 1/2" x 1/2" I needed. There are a bunch of different ways to get to the end result needed to build a quality project, and some of them are a heck of a lot less efficiant than others. I'm not giving up my planer, but what it does is just speed a process up. Heck, planers didn't even exist before the later 1800's ;).