Suggestion for Shiraz - VS woodworking drill press

[Matt Winterowd]

The recent discussion about variable speed drill presses in the Steel City thread made me wonder about why Grizzly hasn't brought a reasonably priced VS drill press with a long stroke to market.

The current woodworking-oriented offerings by Delta, Powermatic are still pretty expensive, and I've read mostly lukewarm reviews from actual owners. I have the non VS Steel City DP, and aside from it being a pain to change speeds with the two belt system, I could see a real advantage to having better table tilting access and not needing to strap on an auxiliary table.

Just a thought, and an observation that based on many discussions in this forum that there's clearly a market for this. Hopefully Shiraz will respond and say that this is already under development, and he needs me to beta test for him. ;)

[Eddie Darby]

I am glad that you brought up this subject!
The failure for the companies that make woodworking tools in the area of Drill Presses amazes me.
Delta offered a digital depth gauge on their 20" model, and then failed to deliver. What a mess that was for a company trying to revamp itself.

If someone could make an accurate, solid performing drill press with a few of the new woodworking friendly features, then they would have a real winner on their hands.

Digital depth measurement
Woodworking tilting table
Split head design
Long quill travel
Variable speed
Low speed for Large Forstner bits
Good Reach

Of course Laser Crosshairs could be a nice add on, and a light.

[Ryan Baker]

I thought the word was that a bunch of the Steel City guys left and went to Grizzly, so I wouldn't be suprised to see some things showing up in the product line before long.

[Dave Lehnert]

Not just a drill press but any woodworking tool. Once you use a sander or jointer with variable speed you have a hard time using anything else. The reason I own a Shop Smith.

I have been preaching for years the benefits of the variable speed on the Shop Smith and the flexibility of the tilting table. A true woodworking drill press.

[Brian Kent]

Could you give an example about how a split head design accomplishes anything? I just have never heard anyone say, "My drill press wobbles because of no split head".

This is not a challenge, but a real question.

Brian

[John Coloccia]

Not just a drill press but any woodworking tool. Once you use a sander or jointer with variable speed you have a hard time using anything else. The reason I own a Shop Smith.

I have been preaching for years the benefits of the variable speed on the Shop Smith and the flexibility of the tilting table. A true woodworking drill press.

Speaking of Shop Smith, someone should bring back the pin router that they used to make. I have the Shop Fox pneumatic pin router, and I don't like it very much. The Shop Smith was a MUCH better unit.

Agreed with what everyone else says. The drill presses available today are pitiful for woodworking until you get into industrial models.

[Eddie Darby]

Could you give an example about how a split head design accomplishes anything? I just have never heard anyone say, "My drill press wobbles because of no split head".

Perhaps you just have not run into someone who has a drill press that is very old.

With time and wear, accuracy is lost, and so a split head design allows you to maintain the accuracy of your drill press over it lifetime.

"Split Head Casting Design: Unlike it's competition, the model 20525 gives you the ability to compensate for wear and insure accuracy of the quill assembly over the life of the machine." from SC Tools

[Dave Lehnert]

Speaking of Shop Smith, someone should bring back the pin router that they used to make. I have the Shop Fox pneumatic pin router, and I don't like it very much. The Shop Smith was a MUCH better unit.

Agreed with what everyone else says. The drill presses available today are pitiful for woodworking until you get into industrial models.

They did about a year and a half ago but in a different form. The new model mounts on the Shopsmith.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/images/RouterArm_static.jpg

[John Coloccia]

They did about a year and a half ago but in a different form. The new model mounts on the Shopsmith.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/images/RouterArm_static.jpg

I guess I meant in a free standing model, although I suppose I could just make a mount for it, eh?

[Jeffrey Makiel]

The standard 16" or 20" drill press offerings today are suitable for many functions including metal working, auto repair, tinkering, etc. There are so many drill press models out there, the competition must be overwhelming. To come up with a drill press that is targeted to woodworkers means that the market base has significantly shrunk...and, since I don't see any significant downside in using a 'standard' drill press for woodworking, the 'standard' drill press will continue to compete with the woodworking model and likely win based on cost and value.

Also, I agree with Brian. I don't see the need to have a split head design to compensate for wear....at least in a hobby/home environment. It probably doesn't hurt anything, but I would not want to pay extra for it.

However, I do like the idea of a variable speed drill press that is capable of a low speed (<200 rpm) and a high speed (>3200 rpm). Delta had one years ago which had two variable speed ranges, but it was quite pricey for the home woodworker. In fact, I think it cost more than 6 times the average step speed import drill press. It made fumbling with belts not such a bad thing.

-Jeff :)

[Rob Cunningham]

If machines were built with quality parts there would be no need for a split head. We have several drill presses at work that are 40+ years old, and are still dead accurate with no wobble. They have good bearings and castings,and no split head.They have been in a machine shop environment and seen a lot of use in their lifetime. I'm not knocking anyone's products or designs, just saying that machines used to be built to last.

[John Thompson]

I thought the word was that a bunch of the Steel City guys left and went to Grizzly, so I wouldn't be suprised to see some things showing up in the product line before long.

The Steel City guys you refer too went to General International who are expanding to distribute their product from a U.S. distribution center. Soon!

[John Thompson]

If you ever look at an industrial drill press with long quill travel you will find a split head design. Split head design has been around a long time and doesn't really cost any more to produce if you include it in the original design. As mentioned it allows for adjustment of slop that can develope with wear (all moving parts with metal on metal wear from friction) down the road.

If you buy a DP will long travel you are wise to purchase one with a split head as has been proven by industry to be the solution to a long life of the machine's accuracy when designed for long travel. A tiny wobble that starts at the chuck is extended from the chuck to the drill bit tip and the wobble is quite pronounced by the time it reaches that point.

[Sean Tracey]

If machines were built with quality parts there would be no need for a split head. We have several drill presses at work that are 40+ years old, and are still dead accurate with no wobble. They have good bearings and castings,and no split head.They have been in a machine shop environment and seen a lot of use in their lifetime. I'm not knocking anyone's products or designs, just saying that machines used to be built to last.

I agree. There is very little wear between the quill and the head. The bore of the head and the O.D. of the quill must be machined for a nice slip fit. This process needs to be controlled and the key to it is using a nice boring head set-up. Boring a nice finish pass is slow, but it is the key to having a good drill press. The quill must then be machined for a nice tight fit just shy of binding. Splitting the head, and adding screws just makes it egg shaped. On a long stroke machine, you will end up with a quill that is tight in some areas and loose in others. If I did a quality finish pass, there would be no way I would go back and split the head.

Most drill presses I have used that are all wobbly are due to the spindle components being worn.

[John Thompson]

I agree. There is very little wear between the quill and the head. The bore of the head and the O.D. of the quill must be machined for a nice slip fit. This process needs to be controlled and the key to it is using a nice boring head set-up. Boring a nice finish pass is slow, but it is the key to having a good drill press. The quill must then be machined for a nice tight fit just shy of binding. Splitting the head, and adding screws just makes it egg shaped. On a long stroke machine, you will end up with a quill that is tight in some areas and loose in others. If I did a quality finish pass, there would be no way I would go back and split the head.

Most drill presses I have used that are all wobbly are due to the spindle components being worn.

Sean.. I am in the market for a drill press to replace my current 15". I am in the shop 6 days a week and I do need capacity for at least a 5" quill travel. I was looking for a used SC 17" with split head as I see the benefit. Now.. from what Rob and you put on the table... what brand machine do I need to look at that is machined to the tolerances you indicate to not require the split head for future consideration?

And bear on mind that probably 90% of the people you are addressing here are hobbyist (myself included even though I log 60 hours a week in the shop) and can't afford to go over a $800 price point. Most probably don't want to exceed $500. My BIL is a machine shop foreman at Delta and I have a feeling precision boring is going to push a press of that statue out of the majorities price range if one is being currently made. If I am wrong.. who makes the machine I need to be considering acquiring?

Thanks...

[Matt Winterowd]

I knew other folks shared the same thoughts. I mostly agree with Eddie's list of requirements, although the digital readout is optional in my book. The old school dials are ok by me if it's a reeve's drive design. Other musts would be:

replaceable insert
adjustable fence (hookup for dust collection optional)

John's mention of General just reminded me that I had also just looked into their new(ish) electronic variable speed drill press, which does have a long stroke, but isn't otherwise geared specifically towards woodworking. I was quoted a price of $1650, and it's not even made in Canada! Ouch!

[John Coloccia]

What I want is a depth lock so that I can move the handle to a certain spot, tighten the lock and have it stay put. This is extremely useful for using the Wagner Saf-T Planer....I would be absolutely lost without that tool...you wouldn't believe how useful it is. Also it's useful for the drum sander as well.

I also want a table that has an alignment index or stop collar of some sort. I hate that after I've aligned a fence, or something like that, if I move the table I have to redo all the alignments. I also want the table to move up and down without turning. I should be able to move the table and maintain all my previous alignments.

The table itself should be designed so that the underside has a dust collection port (for drum sanding....straight under the shaft) and there should be enough room around the mounting slots that I can use a knob to attach fixtures. Often I can't because the table reinforcements interfere. I have to use wing nuts.

Travel stops almost universally stink. The one on my delta isn't too bad, but I hate the screw collar type. Takes WAY too long, and I rarely if ever use the marking gauge. The way I'd like to use it is:

1) Bring the spindle to the right height
2) lock it (using my locking feature from before)
3) twist a knob, or something, to lock the depth stop
4) unlock spindle and go.

This is what I meant when I said that current presses do a pitiful job of addressing woodworkers, and how we tend to use the presses. That's not to say that all these ideas are well thought out. I would have to really think and prototype to see what works and what doesn't, but the point is I would love to see a rethink of the drill press with the modern woodworker in mind. I bought my Delta when I was doing a lot of metal work, and it's fantastic for that...which isn't surprising.

I can think of about a dozen other things, but things like this are important to me and how I use my press. I don't care about speed adjustments or anything like that. It takes me about 20 seconds to change speeds with belts. That's totally minor.

[Rob Cunningham]

After looking closer at the drill presses here at work, they do have a split head design. There is a hardened steel bushing that the quill rides in that is split. There are adjustment screws next to the quill lock. From talking to guys who have been here a long time, they have never needed adjusting.
So with that in mind, I'll stick to my position that you need quality components that will hold up over years of use.
John, I would look for a used industrial DP first. If there are none available, then the SC looks like a good deal.

[Matt Winterowd]

There are so many drill press models out there, the competition must be overwhelming. To come up with a drill press that is targeted to woodworkers means that the market base has significantly shrunk...and, since I don't see any significant downside in using a 'standard' drill press for woodworking, the 'standard' drill press will continue to compete with the woodworking model and likely win based on cost and value.


Jeffrey, this is precisely why this is in Grizzly's wheelhouse. Shiraz founded the company because, as a woodworker himself, he was frustrated by the lack of quality affordable tools that offered value and innovation.

[John Thompson]

After looking closer at the drill presses here at work, they do have a split head design. There is a hardened steel bushing that the quill rides in that is split. There are adjustment screws next to the quill lock. From talking to guys who have been here a long time, they have never needed adjusting.
So with that in mind, I'll stick to my position that you need quality components that will hold up over years of use.
John, I would look for a used industrial DP first. If there are none available, then the SC looks like a good deal.

When you mentioned how old the industrial presses were at your work site.. I kinda scratched my head on "no split head" if indeed they had long travel. I have not seen any older industrial press without the feature. I called my BIL at Delta who has been a machinist for years and he had not either. I called another machinist at a Muscle Car company I retired from and neither had he. But... we all agreed that it could be possible that someone made a long travel without it.

For that matter.. Delta made a press with long travel and didn't include the split head. It wasn't on the market long. So... if your guys don't ever have to use it.. that's great but... if you did develope slop without it you are more or less SOL as it can't be adjusted.

Hard to find anything industrial in the Atlanta area as several Used Machine dealers or Machines Auction companies jump on everything before it goes public for the most part. I have an excellent 15" press but... I do some work that could use the long travel to save me time with in-precision and a long auger bit done by hand.

Regards...

[Shiraz Balolia]

Jeffrey, this is precisely why this is in Grizzly's wheelhouse. Shiraz founded the company because, as a woodworker himself, he was frustrated by the lack of quality affordable tools that offered value and innovation.


Now, you guys wouldn't be trying to shame me into doing something, would you ? :rolleyes:

There is one in the works, but many months away. There are larger projects ahead of it. We have a pretty good selection now, but none have everything you want in one. I, personally, like the ones with crossfeed tables on them. Have a couple in both my metal and woodworking shops at home, but neither are variable speed. I just deal with the pulleys when needed.

[Mike Cruz]

Oh, it can be done REALLY easily. HOWEVER, are WE (the woodworking community) really going to pay what one with all those functions will cost? Not likely. Just read all the threads about how WE are looking at price as the #1 motivator in purchasing.

[Matt Winterowd]

Now, you guys wouldn't be trying to shame me into doing something, would you ? :rolleyes:

Not shame, just encourage! :)


There is one in the works, but many months away. There are larger projects ahead of it. We have a pretty good selection now, but none have everything you want in one.

That's great news! You're participation on this forum is always very much appreciated.


I, personally, like the ones with crossfeed tables on them. Have a couple in both my metal and woodworking shops at home, but neither are variable speed. I just deal with the pulleys when needed.

That's an interesting thought. I've just been playing with using a cross vice on my mortiser, and for that it works great. However, for the size and shape of parts, and spacing of holes that I usually drill it seems like it might be more hassle than help. I think that's why the fence appeals for many. Also, I think if I had a single belt to move, I might be more tolerant, but with two I'm always having to take one all the way off so that I can swap them, and then I've got to wash my hands so that I don't get black schmutz all over my workpiece. I'd rather just turn a dial.

[richard poitras]

Not just a drill press but any woodworking tool. Once you use a sander or jointer with variable speed you have a hard time using anything else. The reason I own a Shop Smith.

I have been preaching for years the benefits of the variable speed on the Shop Smith and the flexibility of the tilting table. A true woodworking drill press.

Dave, thats reason I just picked up a used ShopSmith($100.00)for the variable speeds for a drill press, you can find them pretty cheap.Generaly cheaper than trying to find a variable speed drill press.

[Vic Damone]

Now, you guys wouldn't be trying to shame me into doing something, would you ? :rolleyes:

There is one in the works, but many months away. There are larger projects ahead of it. We have a pretty good selection now, but none have everything you want in one. I, personally, like the ones with crossfeed tables on them. Have a couple in both my metal and woodworking shops at home, but neither are variable speed. I just deal with the pulleys when needed.

If you develop a 20" press with a 6" quill travel, a split head (because regardless of the quality there's always runout that can be adjusted to a minimum), and non Reeves variable speed, I'll be purchasing my first Grizzly machine. Scratch the digital and the lasers. Not much of an incentive for you but it's the best I can do just now.

[Sean Tracey]

When you mentioned how old the industrial presses were at your work site.. I kinda scratched my head on "no split head" if indeed they had long travel. I have not seen any older industrial press without the feature. I called my BIL at Delta who has been a machinist for years and he had not either. I called another machinist at a Muscle Car company I retired from and neither had he. But... we all agreed that it could be possible that someone made a long travel without it.

For that matter.. Delta made a press with long travel and didn't include the split head. It wasn't on the market long. So... if your guys don't ever have to use it.. that's great but... if you did develope slop without it you are more or less SOL as it can't be adjusted.

Hard to find anything industrial in the Atlanta area as several Used Machine dealers or Machines Auction companies jump on everything before it goes public for the most part. I have an excellent 15" press but... I do some work that could use the long travel to save me time with in-precision and a long auger bit done by hand.

Regards...

The Steel City drill press has a single point where the "split head" can be tightened. So if wear occurs, you are only tightening the quill at one point. It takes two points to steady a quill, so I kind of think its pointless to have a single adjustment point.

I guess I will have to go search the old Rockwell press and our Johnford knee mill, but as far as I can tell from examining Bridgeport mills online, there is not "split head" adjustment on the quill feed. What you will find on a Bridgeport mill is a very large diameter quill and if I recall correctly, a chromed bore. My partner has worked on our Johnford mill (Tiawanese clone of a Bridgeport) so I will have to ask him if the Johnford is chromed or adjustable. The quill and the bore may be ground to diameter, but I don't know that for sure. The Bridgeport get's accuracy from precision machining, large diameter quill and quality material.

Drill presses are much cheaper machines. I have looked at online manuals for Clausing and Wilton 20 inch drill presses, some with 6 inches of travel, and most with 2hp, 3 phase motors and no mention is made of adjusting the quill by tightening a bolt or pair of bolts. I do not see such an adjustment on the assembly drawings either, all though that is not there purpose. Like I said, I will have to lay eyes on the old variable speed Rockwell and our Bridgeport. We also have a big radial arm drill, but those bear little in common with a drill press.

I really think split heads are something found only on much older machines.

There isn't much load on the quill in a drill press and the quill is much larger in diameter than the spindle. If something wears out or get's bent, it will likely be the spindle.

We use a twin insert boring head on our Milltronics CNC mill to bore a five inch long journal bearing housing in a cast iron part. Once you set that up, the boring head will hold a tight tolerance all day long. The cycle time is a little slow, but it saves having to put the part in the lathe then move it to the mill so the slow boring operation in the mill is made up for by saving handling the part.

Improved tooling like that may be a reason why quill feeds aren't typically split anymore.

[Sean Tracey]

Sean.. I am in the market for a drill press to replace my current 15". I am in the shop 6 days a week and I do need capacity for at least a 5" quill travel. I was looking for a used SC 17" with split head as I see the benefit. Now.. from what Rob and you put on the table... what brand machine do I need to look at that is machined to the tolerances you indicate to not require the split head for future consideration?

And bear on mind that probably 90% of the people you are addressing here are hobbyist (myself included even though I log 60 hours a week in the shop) and can't afford to go over a $800 price point. Most probably don't want to exceed $500. My BIL is a machine shop foreman at Delta and I have a feeling precision boring is going to push a press of that statue out of the majorities price range if one is being currently made. If I am wrong.. who makes the machine I need to be considering acquiring?

Thanks...

I bought the Delta 17-959 and it drills a great hole. The travel is good, and the table is nice. The rails that the motor slides on so that you can adjust tension on the v-belt are guided by holes in the head casting that are pretty sloppy. The casting should have had a boss where the rails penetrate the casting to provide a longer bearing surface. Since no boss was provided the motor will tilt up if you tighten to hard on the belts. It is possible to tighten just shy of the tilt up and so far that has been tight enough. I have not drilled any large holes with forstner bits or hole saws yet, so I don't know if this is a problem or just a harmless annoyance.

I like the ergonomics of the Delta. The packaging sucks. Buy it from a dealer and not a mail order. Mine arrived and the spindle shaft was bent where the pulley mounts. It took me a while to figure out the source of the problem. The package came in all beat up as you will find on a common carrier. Delta relies on styrofoam and cardboard to ship such a heavy item.

I found the table on the Steel City to be primitive and I didn't like the ergonomics. I wasn't impressed with the split head since it basically worked by tightening a single bolt at the base of the head.

Wilton makes some drill presses with massive 3" quills and decent 6" travels in the 20 inch size, but they are much more expensive. They are metal working and don't have the fancy tilts like the Delta. They also make a 20" that is in the $1000 dollar range with a 2 1/4" quill.

Clausing are made in America. Again they are metal working, but really if you don't need to tilt the way the delta tilts, it doesn't matter.

I mentioned the Wilton and Clausing, because maybe a professional needs that for heavy use. The Delta will suffice for my home use fine.

[Wayne Sparkman]

Straying off-topic a bit here, but two Shop Smith features I always appreciated on their table saw were the pistol-grip clamp on the miter gauge, and the arbor drilled out to receive a hex key, which was a huge help in blade changes.

[Eddie Darby]

What I want is a depth lock so that I can move the handle to a certain spot, tighten the lock and have it stay put. This is extremely useful for using the Wagner Saf-T Planer....I would be absolutely lost without that tool...you wouldn't believe how useful it is. Also it's useful for the drum sander as well.

Thanks I forgot the quill lock! Must have a quill lock!

Digital calipers are getting cheaper and cheaper, so if it was offered as an accessory, along with lasers and such, then the option would be nice.

Perhaps having a selection of different tables that would fit the same model might be a real seller, since some people might want to upgrade from their old DP and just want to transfer their home-made table along with it.

This would give a real price saving for those who are cost conscious, and allow a future upgrade to a more expensive dedicated table later.

Lots of good suggestions in all these threads. Thanks!

[Paul Johnstone]

Oh, it can be done REALLY easily. HOWEVER, are WE (the woodworking community) really going to pay what one with all those functions will cost? Not likely. Just read all the threads about how WE are looking at price as the #1 motivator in purchasing.

Yep, I agree. We hobbyist woodworkers generally want a lot of stuff added, without the price increased :)

As a hobbyist, I really don't mind moving the belts on pulleys to adjust speeds. I pretty much only use 2 speeds anyhow.. the fastest for small diameter bits and a slower speed for big forstners. I change the speed, maybe an average of once a week?

Yeah, I'd love an easier to set depth gauge, but 99% of the time, the drilling depth only needs to be approximate (ie, don't drill through to the other side).. Not really sure that I'd be willing to cough up the extra dough for a nicer depth stop.

[Eddie Darby]

Could you give an example about how a split head design accomplishes anything? I just have never heard anyone say, "My drill press wobbles because of no split head".

This is not a challenge, but a real question.

Brian

Try this link.

http://www.rvplane.com/pdf/drill_press_tune-up.pdf

[Danny Burns]

I see that several people have posted on reducing the slop in your quill travel by drilling and tapping in the cast iron head for the placement of a nylon screw, used to tighten things up.
Why don't drill presses come with this simple device in the first place!

[Bob Barkto]

I have a Delta 17-900 that has that feature from the factory.
Though it isn't a nylon screw but a steel set screw that engages a slot milled in the side of the quill.
I've had to adjust it a few times over the years. Last time was about three weeks ago in fact.


I see that several people have posted on reducing the slop in your quill travel by drilling and tapping in the cast iron head for the placement of a nylon screw, used to tighten things up.
Why don't drill presses come with this simple device in the first place!

[Norman Hitt]

Thanks I forgot the quill lock! Must have a quill lock!

Digital calipers are getting cheaper and cheaper, so if it was offered as an accessory, along with lasers and such, then the option would be nice.

Perhaps having a selection of different tables that would fit the same model might be a real seller, since some people might want to upgrade from their old DP and just want to transfer their home-made table along with it.

This would give a real price saving for those who are cost conscious, and allow a future upgrade to a more expensive dedicated table later.

Lots of good suggestions in all these threads. Thanks!

+1 on "Quill Lock" to accompany the Split Head, (I have it on an old Craftsman Commercial DP & wouldn't be without it)

+1 on Low Speed (150 Rpm to maybe 2000 would be fine)

+1 on 5 1/2" minimum quill travel

Variable speed would be nice but not a deal breaker for me.

[John Shuk]

:rolleyes:Now if Shiraz will buy an old GM plant and make those Southbend lathes there.

[John Shuk]

Interesting reading about Shiraz and Grizzly. Each time I read something new about him I am more impressed.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Tools+of+the+trade!+From+independent+Luthiers+to+t he+world's+largest...-a0127352487

[george wilson]

I have a Bridgeport type mill. The quill is the standard 3 3/8" diameter,and is chromed. There is no split in the head. However,the drill press is used differently from the vertical mill: the quill goes up and down every hole you drill. I do recommend a properly made split head for the drill press. The quill in the mill isn't moved much at all,unless drilling the occasional hole. I keep my quill fully retracted and locked most of the time for rigidity against sideways thrust from milling.

[scott vroom]

Now, you guys wouldn't be trying to shame me into doing something, would you ? :rolleyes:

There is one in the works, but many months away. There are larger projects ahead of it. We have a pretty good selection now, but none have everything you want in one. I, personally, like the ones with crossfeed tables on them. Have a couple in both my metal and woodworking shops at home, but neither are variable speed. I just deal with the pulleys when needed.

Does anyone know if Grizzly is planning to offer a "woodworker's" drill press anytime soon? I'ts been 9 months since Shiraz mentioned it on this thread.

[Will Overton]

I also want the table to move up and down without turning.

So why don't you fasten the rack to the column? You could drill and counter sink screws, or even use large hose clamps.



Sometimes you need to make your own dreams come true.
There are solutions to some of your others 'wants', if you think about it a bit. ;)

[Mikail Khan]

Does anyone know if Grizzly is planning to offer a "woodworker's" drill press anytime soon? I'ts been 9 months since Shiraz mentioned it on this thread.

About one month ago Shiraz indicated it was still several months away.

I could not wait so I got their 20" model.

MK