Upgrading to a 1 1/4" shaper, need insert tooling advice

[Joe Jensen]

Hi, gloat coming. I will be moving up to a 1 1/4" spindle shaper tsoon. Supposed to be able to handle up to 9e" dia cutters. I've been reading a ton onlinne about shaper cutters and it seems that larger diameter wiill give a better finish due to the different arc the knife takes. I am pretty sure I want to go with insert tooling. I see pro 1 1/4" cabinet sets that range in size from 4" to 6" in dia. How much difference does the diameter make?
Also, what is the quality of the Freud insert heads? The RS2000 and RP2000 look like great kits, decent price, but relatively small diameter, both the cabinet set and he raised panel cutters are 4" dia. 4" for a cabinet door set seems ok, but 4" for a panel raiser seems small.
Thoughts?
I currently have 3/4" bore cutters. I have a unique combination of old delta cabinet door cutters. Basically one set of 6 parts, and then the profile cutters for 2 more profiles. I also have a few Freeborn cutters and some junk asian import cutters.

[Paul B. Cresti]

For your "main cutters" I suggest high quality insert tooling from the companies like CG Schmidt. I have many insert sets from them. If you need the quick one off profile then get that anywhere.

[Steve Rowe]

Joe,
I have had the Freud RS2000 set for a number of years and it works very well. For cope and stick cutters, I don't think the diameter makes that much difference. I have several aluminum head cutters and they don't cut as cleanly as the steel heads. I have avoided the RP2000 set because the head is made of aluminum. I have one Garniga cutterhead and it is awesome but, that is an expensive cutter. Felder has some nice branded cutters for raised panels that work very well but, these are only available in 30mm bore. Felder usually has good tooling sales around Christmas. If you can get a 30mm spindle for your new shaper, that would be a viable option.

I generally will only buy insert cutterheads for something that I anticipate using a lot. If it is intermittent use, I will go the standard brazed head cutters and usually opt for Freeborn. If it is one time or seldom used cutters, Grizzly or some other inexpensive brand.

[Joe Jensen]

Steve, how much difference do you see between 3/4" spindle and the larger spindles? For $400 I can get the 3/4" spindle and use my existing cutters. But, part of my motivation was to move to the larger spindle and if I get the small spindle I am kind of punting.

What do you think of the Freeborn insert heads? They are steel I think. Also, they have either Tantung or Carbide.

How much is the fabled Felder Christmas discount?

[Mike Heidrick]

I have both a 3/4" and 1 1/4" spindle for my new shaper. I have the UC900 set and it is 3/4" and I did not want to not be able to use it.

I have bought the Raised panel garniga head already and hope to buy the cope/stick Garniga set before end of year. VERY pricey though but you get quite a few profiles when you buy the set.

Really depends on your investment you already have in 3/4" cutters. Getting the 3/4" spindle will let you slowly replace the cutters and you can then buy inserts from Leitz and Garniga. Leitz makes a lot of the felder tooling.

Freeborn insert tooling gets good reviews but I have not seen it. I have one LRH carbide cutter and it is nice but faily small diameter.

I have been using my Garniga rabetting/chamfer cutter quite a bit. It is very nice.

[David DeCristoforo]

Joe, I would not want to see you get a shaper that does not have interchangeable spindles. There are many times when you will want the extra "meat" a 1 1/4" spindle offers. But just as many when the smaller spindle will be what you want/need. Tooling for the smaller spindle will be much less costly and for many operations they will perform as well as their larger counterparts. Smaller cutters also allow you to cut tighter inside curves. I run all my panel raisers on a big spindle but my cope and stick cutters are all 3/4" bore. You just need the flexibility and I think it is a mistake to invest in a "fixed spindle" machine.

PS I was thinking maybe I did not understand your question. If the machine you are considering has interchangeable spindles, you will want to get both sizes....

[Joe Jensen]

Joe, I would not want to see you get a shaper that does not have interchangeable spindles. There are many times when you will want the extra "meat" a 1 1/4" spindle offers. But just as many when the smaller spindle will be what you want/need. Tooling for the smaller spindle will be much less costly and for many operations they will perform as well as their larger counterparts. Smaller cutters also allow you to cut tighter inside curves. I run all my panel raisers on a big spindle but my cope and stick cutters are all 3/4" bore. You just need the flexibility and I think it is a mistake to invest in a "fixed spindle" machine.

PS I was thinking maybe I did not understand your question. If the machine you are considering has interchangeable spindles, you will want to get both sizes....

The machine I ordered has interchangeable spindles. I've ordered 1 1/4" and a Router spindle that will run up to 22,000 RPM. I can also get 3/4", and 30mm, and maybe others. They are complete cartridges and expensive. I hadn't thought about the many smaller cutters that would indeed not really see benefit from the beefier spindle.

[Joe Jensen]

I have both a 3/4" and 1 1/4" spindle for my new shaper. I have the UC900 set and it is 3/4" and I did not want to not be able to use it.

I have bought the Raised panel garniga head already and hope to buy the cope/stick Garniga set before end of year. VERY pricey though but you get quite a few profiles when you buy the set.

Really depends on your investment you already have in 3/4" cutters. Getting the 3/4" spindle will let you slowly replace the cutters and you can then buy inserts from Leitz and Garniga. Leitz makes a lot of the felder tooling.

Freeborn insert tooling gets good reviews but I have not seen it. I have one LRH carbide cutter and it is nice but faily small diameter.

I have been using my Garniga rabetting/chamfer cutter quite a bit. It is very nice.

Mike, do you have a Felder? Which Garniga cutters do you have and where are you getting them? Which set are you eyeing? You PM me if more comfortable on those Qs

[Mike Heidrick]

I have a Laguna T1002S. It is a 5hp tilting arbor sliding table shaper.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/t1002s6.jpg

It came directly from Laguna. I also bought my Garniga cutterheads from Laguna as well. I have the Raised panel raising set with four profiles and the rabetting chamfer 5" head. Rabetting head is on the shaper in teh picture. These both are 1 1/4".

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/garniga2.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/garniga1.jpg

Here is the next set I am buying. It is the Garniga Rail and Stile set.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/garniga3.jpg

[Mike Heidrick]

I also bought the Freud RP1000 head NIB on ebay for a steal/cheap. I still have not bought any profiles for it yet though. It sure looks like a nice head. When amazon clearences out the knives for it I will buy some. Patience pays off with them.

[Mike Heidrick]

Your Next purchase needs to be the Felder survival guide by David Best!! I own the laguna and still find it a phenominal manual on using shaper tooling. It goes way beyond Lonnie's and Cliffee's books as far as Euro shaper tooling is concerned and for a Felder saw/shaper owner it is a no brainer! Best $95 you will spend at this time. Plus it goes into way detail about your saw and the commissioning/setup that you need to do. Plus the info on your right angle fence is awesome.

It will help you to pass the time while you wait for your saw.

Get the cafe press link for it from the Felders owners group - the general link on google priced it at $150! Their link is for $95. Plus do a search for a coupon - should be able to get $10 off which should cover shipping.

Never mind - here is the $95 link for you!
http://www.cafepress.com/davidbest.14337605

Here is an awesome link with a preview and some of David's other articles. Join FOG too (felders owners group - not festool - theirs is good too though!)
http://www.davidpbest.com/Publications.htm

[Larry Edgerton]

I am definately buying a tilt shaper next time! I keep running into apps where it would be the simple and inexpensive answer. Currently I am building archtop exterior window trim that is 5" deep and I wish I had a tilt shaper to do the top 5 degree bevel. Does it tip forward or back?

No money right now so I can only drool......

Have you had that one long, and if so what do you like/dislike?

Larry

[Joe Jensen]

Larry, the Felder tilts back away from the fence.

[Jeff Duncan]

You didn't say which machine you were getting, but very generally speaking the Euro machines make better interchangeable spindles than American (Asian) counterparts. If I could only have one shaper in my shop (the horror:eek:) it would either be a good quality fixed spindle, or a very good quality (SCMI or the like) interchangeable spindle.
I find the 1-1/4" cutters leave a slightly better finish than the 3/4" versions. I've slowly sold off most of my 3/4" cutters, though if you have a good amount probably worthwhile keeping them. The other thing you may want to think about is custom profiles. Having a corrugated head or 2 to be able to have custom profiles ground can be very handy.
As for the insert heads it really depends on what kind of quantity you put out. Personally I do several kitchens a year, so I don't do the kind of quantity needed to justify the pricetag. Also remember you have to have a different cutter for each type of profile. For example, I use the Freeborn 6 piece cope & sticks sets. With one set I can do the normal profile, a glass door profile, or just the top profile w/ no groove or rebate (like for wine cooler doors). With insert tooling you'll need 3 different sets of knives and I believe from talking with one of my suppliers, you also have to have the head ordered ground a bit smaller in order to use those knives.
Just something to keep in mind, again depending on what you plan to do.
good luck,
JeffD

[Mike Heidrick]

The Garniga insert cutters above its available cuts with the three cutters - stacked in different orders.

http://www.lagunatools.com/shaper-kcsrsai

The laguna interchangeable spindles are huge but do not have the super quick 2 sec change out like teh Felder. It takes about 15-30 seconds. You need a spanner wrench as well so it is not tool less. The spindles are big money retail so work a deal with your dealer if you buy new.

The laguna's shaper fence has many features like the Aigner fence has including micro adjustments on both sides (left adjument is for the outfeed and the right adjustment moves the whole fence). It also has the safety bars to surround the cutterhead.

The tennoning table I have is 1' sold Cast Iron and very heavy duty. I am suprised the felder's is aluminum. I also have teh tenoning hood. If you are spinning HUGE heads look into this hood or make one yourself.

Marc released his pricing on his air clamp/sliding table hold downs last night on the FOG website. Check that out if pneumatic air clamps are something you might want. the Big squeeze set is up around $750. I am playing around making my own.

My machine also rear tilts the spindle from 90 to 45 degree.

I think my machine has EVERYTHINg except:

I do not have dial measurement on spindle height. I want to add that. I would also like a better fence place measurement than the little tape on teh bak of teh fence movement block. I am trying to figure out how to add both in digital measurement styl. My spindle travels 7" so the small Wixey remote remote readout will not work out of the box I do not think.

[Paul B. Cresti]

I am definately buying a tilt shaper next time! I keep running into apps where it would be the simple and inexpensive answer. Currently I am building archtop exterior window trim that is 5" deep and I wish I had a tilt shaper to do the top 5 degree bevel. Does it tip forward or back?

No money right now so I can only drool......

Have you had that one long, and if so what do you like/dislike?

Larry

Larry,
I am about to begin the process of creating a new front entry and part of it has an eliptical transom and trim of course.....I am assuming from your description above that you do not have a WH Molder or US Conepts arch shaper.

Did you create an arched shaped jig to run the stock on so as to place stock flat to you fence? In this method you can not use a feeder.

[Paul Johnstone]

The machine I ordered has interchangeable spindles..

Do people here really interchange their spindles a lot?
My shaper (Powermatic) requires a solid spindle for 1 1/4". I also have another spindle that easily changes from 3/4", 1/2" or router bit. Changing the whole spindle assembly is such a pain that I have standardized on 1 1/4".

By a pain, I mean it takes about 30 minutes to change out the entire spindle assembly.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Paul, many of the Euro shapers allow easy spindle changes.

Esentially loosen a clamp, lift out the spindle, insert new spindle, tighten clamp.

You can keep your tooling on a spindle, program the spindle elevation, press go, no setup tweaking required.

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Heidrick]

Hi Paul, many of the Euro shapers allow easy spindle changes.

Esentially loosen a clamp, lift out the spindle, insert new spindle, tighten clamp.

You can keep your tooling on a spindle, program the spindle elevation, press go, no setup tweaking required.

Regards, Rod.

With the Laguna,

Lock spindle, loosen collar (requires spanner wrench), remove Morse Taper 4 spindle, insert new spindle, tighten collar, unlock spindle.

I took out my spindle with all three cabinet door cutter sets on it. When I put it back in they will be set up exactly like I just made my last set of doors.

I do not have a programable auto spindle height machine (HUGE MONEY for that - even the 700S shapers do not have that - I have seen that on SCMI and Martins - major Drool!). BUT - I just make note of handle/spindle height position and fence settings and retun them to their setting and it is perfectly setup. A quick look against my test block and I am perfect.

It is very quick.

Once I add digital height it will be even simpler!!

[Brad Shipton]

Joe, a great source for the Garniga cutters is Rangate. Greg is a very agressive (helpful too) salesman and they do stock a good number of the Garniga cutters.

I have not found a great number of uses for the tilt on my shaper. I have a 8" opening and can only fit a 4" dia cutter when I start to tilt near 45deg. For chamfers, 4 - 10mm grooves, easing and 50mm tenons I have found the Garniga Multi Iso is incredibly useful.

Brad

[Steve Rowe]

Steve, how much difference do you see between 3/4" spindle and the larger spindles? For $400 I can get the 3/4" spindle and use my existing cutters. But, part of my motivation was to move to the larger spindle and if I get the small spindle I am kind of punting.

What do you think of the Freeborn insert heads? They are steel I think. Also, they have either Tantung or Carbide.

How much is the fabled Felder Christmas discount?
Joe,
For the smaller cutters that don't have a big profile bite, there is not much difference. For raised panels, go with the 1-1/4" or 30mm for sure. If you have a lot of 3/4" bore cutters that you like and use a lot, I recommend getting the 3/4" spindle.

The Freeborn cutters I have are brazed and not insert. I have no experience with the Freeborn insert cutterheads so cannot offer any opinions (well - I could but it really wouldn't be worth anything). If you do get the Freeborn insert cutterhead, I would be interested in what you think of them. I opt for the carbide instead of the Tantung because some of the woods I work with are high in silica and the Tantung wouldn't last long.

On the Felder discount, it seems to vary but, they seem to have better deals on tooling than most of their other products at Christmas. Maybe 15-20%. If they have a good sale this year for a cutterhead (or two) that I need, I will probably swing for a 30mm spindle for my machine.
Steve

[Joe Jensen]

Do people here really interchange their spindles a lot?
My shaper (Powermatic) requires a solid spindle for 1 1/4". I also have another spindle that easily changes from 3/4", 1/2" or router bit. Changing the whole spindle assembly is such a pain that I have standardized on 1 1/4".

By a pain, I mean it takes about 30 minutes to change out the entire spindle assembly.

The Felder takes like 30 seconds. Move the slider out of the way, slide open an access panel, twist on locking lever to detension the belt, twist on alignment pin, slide out spindle assembly, reverse to install. The guy wasn't even hurrying.

[David DeCristoforo]

No offense intended to anyone but the speed at which shaper spindles can be changed is irrelevant. Thirty seconds or five minutes... in the larger sense it's meaningless. The spindles in the Felder are fairly easy to change. But I've never done it in thirty seconds. Maybe if I had everything right there and it was all waxed up and I had been training for a year and determined to become an Olympic spindle changer, maybe I could do it in thirty seconds. But in the course of daily work, the time spent changing spindles is nothing against the time spent mounting and shimming and adjusting and test cutting and positioning and jig building, etc, etc, etc. This is not a good reason to choose one machine over another.

[Peter Quinn]

Joe, I have the Freud RP2000 and it works great. Check that diameter again, I'm pretty sure the actual diameter is 5 1/2", not 4". In any event, i had my concerns about the 2 wing versus 3 wing more than the diameter, but it has made flawless cuts in every hardwood I have put through it, and that includes Wenge! It doesn't get much harder than wenge in my world. I'm sure there are other insert sets that are perhaps better, but the Freud performs very well, and the aluminum has been no issue for me. You might get a bit faster feed rate with a three wing insert head to keep the chip rate where you want it in a high production environment, but I get as good a quality from that RP set as my Freeborn three wing donuts, and its much cheaper than 5 quality three wing cutters.

[Mike Heidrick]

David, it may not be THE reason to choose one machine over another, but it sure is a nice feature to have. I played with a K700S saw shaper at a friends house and WOW was it super nice. Felder makes an excellent machine and not just because of the spindles. I am still liking my seperates thus far but that K700S is one awesome machine.

No mounting or shimming needed if you get it right and leave everything setup on the spindles though correct?

With only one 3/4" spindle and one 1 1/4" spindle the chances either will stay permanent are slim for me. I just try and take good notes of my setup now.

What shaper machine/s are you running again - I forget.

[Bill Orbine]

Do people here really interchange their spindles a lot?
My shaper (Powermatic) requires a solid spindle for 1 1/4". I also have another spindle that easily changes from 3/4", 1/2" or router bit. Changing the whole spindle assembly is such a pain that I have standardized on 1 1/4".

By a pain, I mean it takes about 30 minutes to change out the entire spindle assembly.

I've got a Powermatic PM2700 shaper. The spindle changes takes only a minute or two on mine. Any shaper that takes 30 minutes to change the spindle becomes a boat anchor. The same goes for setup. The key to a good shaper is ease of setup aside from the bells and whistles.

[Joe Jensen]

No offense intended to anyone but the speed at which shaper spindles can be changed is irrelevant. Thirty seconds or five minutes... in the larger sense it's meaningless. The spindles in the Felder are fairly easy to change. But I've never done it in thirty seconds. Maybe if I had everything right there and it was all waxed up and I had been training for a year and determined to become an Olympic spindle changer, maybe I could do it in thirty seconds. But in the course of daily work, the time spent changing spindles is nothing against the time spent mounting and shimming and adjusting and test cutting and positioning and jig building, etc, etc, etc. This is not a good reason to choose one machine over another.

I guess we will see. Long term I intend to use just 1 1/4" cutters. But I also will use this as a router table for small edge profiles. I personally took the spindle out and replaced it on a used machine I was considering and it was VERY simple and there was a positive alignment pin that ensures the spindle is exactly in the same position when it's replaced. It's possible I'll hate the combo. I've been using separates for 30 years. I couldn't fit a slider in the shop with separates and in the end I decided that a saw/shaper combo would be better for me that separates without a slider. Also, I guess I've never had much trouble setting up PM26 my shaper and I have never shimmed it. Maybe I'm not doing it right.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...it sure is a nice feature to have...Felder makes an excellent machine and not just because of the spindles....that K700S is one awesome machine."

I totally agree. I have had a KF700sPro for quite a while now and I have been very happy with it. I would absolutely recommend it to anyone who can choke down the price.

"Any shaper that takes 30 minutes to change the spindle becomes a boat anchor."

Agree with that too, to a certain extent. But I never had a machine on which it took a half an hour to swap out the spindles. Five minutes, max. But in some environments a fixed spindle is not a deal killer. In a shop that has several shapers and some of them are dedicated to specific operations for example. But for a shop that only has one , it's much more of an issue.

[Ben Abate]

Joe,

I sent you a PM.



Ben

[Rick Fisher]

Joe.. I thought you where getting the electromagnetic spindle, hit a switch and lift it out ???

This is no time to be cheap Joe.. Cmon... Buck up to the table.. :)

[Joe Jensen]

I'll be right behind you Rick :)

[Mike Heidrick]

Doesn't the T130 SCMI class shapers have something like that? Air lock or something?

[Joe Jensen]

I beleive the T130 has a quick release spindle, Rick and I looked at them at AWFS in Vegas last July. Super cool. There was a Cassolini (I think) in the Houfek booth that not only had quick release, but also had an automatic air blower in the spindle mount that blew dust out when changing spindles. Seemed like a very good idea, but it was the only one like that we saw at the show...joe

[J.R. Rutter]

Do people here really interchange their spindles a lot?
My shaper (Powermatic) requires a solid spindle for 1 1/4". I also have another spindle that easily changes from 3/4", 1/2" or router bit. Changing the whole spindle assembly is such a pain that I have standardized on 1 1/4".

By a pain, I mean it takes about 30 minutes to change out the entire spindle assembly.

While I do it commercially and could justify the cost, I went from 7 fixed spindle shapers to two quick change spindle shapers. I have about 15 spindles stacked with various cutters. The door cutters are all spaced identically with identical minor diameters, so the spindle change is all that is needed to change profiles. Profile change with zero setup time is less than 30 seconds for cope and stick! I agree with David that if you still had to mount and unmount cutters, the fast spindle loses some of its luster. I made 6 different sample doors today for a customer and was at the cope/stick station for about 10 minutes. Ditto for panels, though some were the same profile.

For more casual use, having a couple of spindles set up with cutters would still be great if you could afford it...

[J.R. Rutter]

I beleive the T130 has a quick release spindle, Rick and I looked at them at AWFS in Vegas last July. Super cool. There was a Cassolini (I think) in the Houfek booth that not only had quick release, but also had an automatic air blower in the spindle mount that blew dust out when changing spindles. Seemed like a very good idea, but it was the only one like that we saw at the show...joe

The SCMI T130 Class shapers are the ones with the pneumatic spindle collets. They now use HSK instead of the ISO 40 taper that I have. Mine do blow though air to remove dust as a spindle is released, and continue until you hit the lock switch. It does help, but you do have to pay attention to dust on the taper.

Regarding cutters, have you seen Freeborn's new insert system for cope and stick? It is a 6 piece set with inserts, so that you have the advantages of inserts with the ability to shim for undersize plywood and to change profiles by swapping only two of the six inserts on the universal profile cutter bodies. I had some cope and stick heads made custom for me by EW Tooling. They are 125mm minor diameter steel bodies. The cope has 2+2 up+down shear. I still run Freeborn insert heads for panel raising

[Joe Jensen]

Regarding cutters, have you seen Freeborn's new insert system for cope and stick? It is a 6 piece set with inserts, so that you have the advantages of inserts with the ability to shim for undersize plywood and to change profiles by swapping only two of the six inserts on the universal profile cutter bodies. I had some cope and stick heads made custom for me. They are 125mm minor diameter steel bodies. The cope has 2+2 up+down shear. I still run Freeborn insert heads for panel raising

Hi, I was hoping you'd post. I'm an engineer and what makes me over think things like what cutters to get is this. With braised cutters, it's easy to make sure that all three carbides are cut exactly in the same plane. With insert tooling there are more places where the tolerances have to be right on or the knives will not be in the same plane and you will end up with just one knife cutting. Since the materials for the head are either steel or aluminum, I assume the cost for the materials are about the same from one manufacturer to the next. Then the wide range in pricing would likely be due to how much precision they hold, what the labor costs are, and the quality of carbide or Tangtun inserts. If the difference is just how long it wears, any will be fine for me. If the difference is in machining precision and it affects cut quality, I want the better heads. Make sense?


Freeborn seems to be an American cabinet shop standard. Probably not for volume production, but I assume the tolerances are pretty good. They claim high speed dynamic balance to within a gram. If buying insert now, what would you buy?

[J.R. Rutter]

Hi, I was hoping you'd post. I'm an engineer and what makes me over think things like what cutters to get is this. With braised cutters, it's easy to make sure that all three carbides are cut exactly in the same plane. With insert tooling there are more places where the tolerances have to be right on or the knives will not be in the same plane and you will end up with just one knife cutting. Since the materials for the head are either steel or aluminum, I assume the cost for the materials are about the same from one manufacturer to the next. Then the wide range in pricing would likely be due to how much precision they hold, what the labor costs are, and the quality of carbide or Tangtun inserts. If the difference is just how long it wears, any will be fine for me. If the difference is in machining precision and it affects cut quality, I want the better heads. Make sense?


Freeborn seems to be an American cabinet shop standard. Probably not for volume production, but I assume the tolerances are pretty good. They claim high speed dynamic balance to within a gram. If buying insert now, what would you buy?

Even with brazed tooling, one knife is doing the finish cut due to the tolerance required for sliding the cutter on and off plus any tiny inaccuracies from sharpening. Hydro locking sleeves that center the tool body on the spindle help, but I don't think that these are even available for shapers. Inserts do need to be registered accurately to get close to a new brazed tool. But after sharpening, all bets are off on how well the brazed set will work. One advantage to insert tooling is the constant diameter. This is not a big deal until you compare to a brazed set that has had a few sharpenings. And god forbid you should have a couple sets of brazed heads and accidentally swap one of the cutters in a cope/stick set. Cut quality is very good even if only one knife is providing the finish.

I do know shops who use Freeborn for high production. They do a good job and can turn around custom profiles in a reasonable time. They don't seem to have the new insert system on their web site, but from what I remember, it looked like a winner. The issues for me were getting a geometry that would allow swapping inserts into a moulder head without affecting the profile. Since I was into a custom size head for this, I went with a single piece insert system and got universal heads with steel backers for less common profiles, and dedicated heads for my two "every day" profiles. For doing less volume, I think that I might go with a 6-piece cope/stick insert setup with universal profile heads (milled to take a variety of profiles). As time went on, you could get a second set and keep one profile loaded and ready to run, swapping the profile on the second set as needed.

For raised panel heads, there are many good choices, but a supplier who can do custom profiles quickly makes a big difference. Schmidt, DeHart, Great Lakes, EW Tooling, and many others that I'm not familiar with can do this.

My advice is to standardize diameters and spacing with whoever you go with. Even with an easy to set machine, the less fiddling you do, the better.

[Paul Johnstone]

No offense intended to anyone but the speed at which shaper spindles can be changed is irrelevant. Thirty seconds or five minutes... .

I agree, 5 minutes would be no big deal.. For me, the procedure was.. remove belt, remove clamp bolt (both fast).. then spend about 30 minutes with a wonder bar to open the clamp... use a hammer and block of wood to get it out.. It was a major PITA. It did take at least 30 minutes.

It is interesting that other shapers can change spindles so easy.. If mine was not sure a chore, I would do it.

Now.. I did buy mine used, and the previous spindle had probably been clamped in there for years.. maybe that has something to do with it.

[Paul Johnstone]

I've got a Powermatic PM2700 shaper. The spindle changes takes only a minute or two on mine. Any shaper that takes 30 minutes to change the spindle becomes a boat anchor. The same goes for setup. The key to a good shaper is ease of setup aside from the bells and whistles.

Is this for changing out the 3/4 spindle to the solid 1 1/4 size (ie, changing the whole assembly?) .. Because I think I have the same shaper, although mine is an older model. Not 100% sure on the model number.

On mine, the clamp holding the spindle has no give at all, even when the clampling bolt is removed. It holds on with jaws of steel :)

[Joe Jensen]

UPDATE

I ended up getting the machine with a 1 1/4" spindle cartridge, and a 22,000 rpm router spindle cartridge.

I also selected Garniga cabinet door cutters, a raised panel and back cutter set, and Garniga 180mm adjustable rebate cutters. I was also able to score some new old stock Leitz roundover cutters in 3mm and 12mm radius. I'm about half way to where I want to be with shaper cutters.