Hand crank grinders?

[Tristan Williams]

I've been scouring local flea markets for a hand crank grinder, but in general tools seem to be pretty thin on the ground at flea markets here in Finland :(

A quick search on E-bay turned up some new grinders being sold by a seller in the US for a pretty reasonable price, so I was wondering if anyone has any experience with them! I know I can't direct link to E-bay, so if you search for "Manual Hand Grinder Stone Jewellers Bench Repair Tool" the only result that comes up is the item I'm referring to.

It looks pretty decent to me - while it only comes with a 4" stone, it looks like there is a decent amount of space to fit a bigger one.

Any optinions?

[Brian Ashton]

I've been steadily getting rid of power tools but a grinder, or at least my idea of a grinder, is hard to do without. I've thought about getting a hand crank grinder. But grinding a tool well takes two hands, two steady hands... Cranking with one while trying to shape an edge with the other seems like an exercise in frustration to me. It turns the process into a two person job. You'll never burn the edge though. A sit down system would be much better. Come to think of it, depending on how handy you are, you could convert a hand crank grinder into a foot powered one.

[george wilson]

When I was growing up on old lighthouses they had hand grinders that you had to crank. I think it is a big pain to use them,holding the tool with 1 hand and trying to do accurate work. plus,it doesn't take much pressure to stall one out.

I expect you need a portable grinder to take to jobs,though? I have seen them turn up on Ebay. You will probably have to buy an antique one.

[Jim Koepke]

Hello Tristan and welcome to the creek.

You can lead others to a particular eBay auction by using the item number. In this case that is 360191395444.

My first thought is that these may be made in China. A question to the seller should give a clear answer to that.

My second thought is that powered grinding is often also used for flattening the backs of blades and chisels. This gives me a preference for flat disks like the WorkSharp or the Veritas MK II power systems.

I have also found a piece of sandpaper 3 - 4 feet long on a flat surface is another way to remove metal rather quickly and with less heat than a powered system.

Many will sing the praises of a grinder and its ability to create a hollow grind. Very few of my tools have a hollow grind and they seem to work fine for me.

Some hand grinders have a built in ratchet or clutch. This allows one to wind up the stone and cut a little without the handle swinging around. The seller may not be able to answer a question about this if they are a drop ship seller.

One thing that is just my opinion, as I have not looked at a lot of these kind of things, The threads on the bolt look like the nut could have a tendency to loosen when the wheel spins down. Also, the fit and finish at the handle looks like there may be some left to be desired.

jim

[Tristan Williams]

Back when I lived with my parents still we had a hand crank grinder as well as an electric one - the electric one was definitely miles better for setting up an accurate profile in HSS for my old metal lathe. In general, yes, the electric grinder is far handier. For plane blades the one handedness isn't really a problem though - build a tool rest to hold it at the right angle and you just need to slide it back and forth while you crank.

Hand crank grinders have a bunch of advantages when you consider my tiny "shop" - ie, the balcony of my eighth floor flat. My workbench is (still!) a slab of kitchen laminate worktop resting atop trestles - my project list doesn't seem to quieten down enough for me to find time to build something better ;) It is quite an asset in my situation to have a quiet(er), compact tool that doesn't require any power to operate, especially when it can be tucked away quickly and easily. I wouldn't even consider it, though, if I still had my metal lathe and needed to grind complex geometries regularly. But then I wouldn't be able to do that outside of the allowed construction noise time, either...

[Tristan Williams]

Thanks for the welcome and the feedback, Jim :)

How effective do you find the sandpaper for rapid metal removal? Eg lets say you wanted to reshape a plane blade for rough stock removal, would you be game to do it with sandpaper? I've had a great time honing blades with sandpaper, certainly, its great for that..

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for the welcome and the feedback, Jim :)

How effective do you find the sandpaper for rapid metal removal? Eg lets say you wanted to reshape a plane blade for rough stock removal, would you be game to do it with sandpaper? I've had a great time honing blades with sandpaper, certainly, its great for that..

Recently, I had some sandpaper set up for lapping the bottom of a jointer plane. There was also a recent chisel purchase that had a bad back. The chisel was being flattened on my power set up, but due to heat the cooling period was taking a lot of time. It was actually faster to do the initial flattening of the chisel on the long piece of sandpaper attached to a piece of counter top material.

If a radius was wanted on a plane blade to use like a scrub plane, then maybe power would be in order. If need be, it could be done on sandpaper. Getting repeatable sharpness could be a problem without some kind of fixture to hold the blade.

jim

[Michael Faurot]

I had myself convinced, for a time, that I wanted a hand cranked grinder. When I started thinking about how I would crank with one hand and steady a blade with the other, it seemed like it would be more trouble than it's worth.

Seeing this thread started me thinking of an alternative. What about converting a hand cranked grinder into a foot powered one? I don't know exactly how to go about doing that, but thought I'd throw the idea out there in case someone else wants to run with it. :)

[Joel Goodman]

LV sells a mandrel that takes two grinding wheels and has a pulley for a belt drive. How about using parts from a junker bicycle and that? If anyone has built a foot grinder show us a picture please.

[Dominic Greco]

<snip>Seeing this thread started me thinking of an alternative. What about converting a hand cranked grinder into a foot powered one? I don't know exactly how to go about doing that, but thought I'd throw the idea out there in case someone else wants to run with it. :) <snip>

I've heard of it being done with a length of old wooden broom handle and a couple of eye bolts. One end goes around the handle, and the other connects to a flat piece of wood sized to act like a foot pedal.

Now as to how well this Rube Goldberg device works, that's another story! :D

[Robert Rozaieski]

I use a hand cranked grinder with a shop made tool rest and I have no problems grinding accurately. I do my plane irons, chisels, gouges, lathe tools and whatever else needs grinding. Cranking with one hand and guiding the tool with the other isn't that hard to do.

With that said, ebay can be a great plane but it can also be very difficult to find a good one. You need to be very careful about the condition and ask a lot of questions. I thought I asked enough questions with mine and thought I got a good deal on one. I received it, cleaned it up and put it to use only to find that the shaft wasn't perfectly straight. I still use it but there is some wobble to the stone which makes it a little more challenging to grind well with. It still works, but I'm thinking about either trying to get my hands on a better one or building one myself that I know will have a straight shaft and a true running wheel.

So I would say to try your best to find one you can try out before you buy to make sure all works as it is supposed to. If that just doesn't pan out for you, try to find one on ebay from a seller with a good feedback rating that has a good return policy and ask a lot of questions. That way, if you get it and find it doesn't work as advertised and discussed you may be able to return it.

Good luck!

[David Keller NC]

Thanks for the welcome and the feedback, Jim :)

How effective do you find the sandpaper for rapid metal removal? Eg lets say you wanted to reshape a plane blade for rough stock removal, would you be game to do it with sandpaper? I've had a great time honing blades with sandpaper, certainly, its great for that..

Tristan - In your situation, sandpaper may be ideal. One word of advice based on the experience of trying to thin a Hock blade down by 20 thousandths on sandpaper - buy some high-quality aluminum oxide or zirconium oxide (sometimes called "ceramic oxide") paper. Wet-dry paper uses silicon carbide as the abrasive, and while it's ideal for flattening waterstones, the abrasive isn't hard enough compared to hard tool steel. You'll wear out multiple sheets trying to take off even a little bit of hardened steel.

[Bogdan Colibas]

I like my hand-crank grinder very well. At first it was a little deal to get a spacer for the smaller arbor, but with some advice, I turned one using the grinder itself as a lathe. Landis's The Workshop Book has a picture of a foot-pedal set-up. I haven't had the desire for more than a tool rest to use with it. Like anything, a little practice and it's second-nature.

[Michael Faurot]

LV sells a mandrel that takes two grinding wheels and has a pulley for a belt drive. How about using parts from a junker bicycle and that? If anyone has built a foot grinder show us a picture please.

Bicycle parts seem like a good way to go. The sprocket from the rear wheel could go on the grinder (or attach it to that LV mandrel pulley somehow) and then set up the pedals and a length of chain to drive it. I'm thinking some type of cross between a shave horse and a recumbant bike. I don't know what the correct mechanical/engineering term is, but whatever that mechanism is in the sprocket, would also give you the benefit of being able to stop pedaling, but let the grinding wheels keep spinning--same effect as what happens when you stop pedaling on a bicycle.

I'd rather sit on something like that, pump my legs a bit, and sharpen some blades than do the same thing at a gym. ;)

[Danny Burns]

You might find a few posts with Harry Strasil to be of use.
I myself consider Harry to be an invaluable resource when it comes to grinders.

You won't have this problem with hand powered grinders. Scarey Grinder Accident.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=121405&highlight=broom

Hand Grinders, with some nice pics.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=38666&highlight=grinder

Balancing High Speed Grinder Wheels.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=117369&highlight=grinder

I have a Low Speed Grinder, but I find myself using it less and less these days, since getting a 1" x 42" belt grinder. I use the grinder now for hogging off lots of metal mostly.

[Gary Roberts]

If you're looking for a good vintage hand grinder on Ebay, watch for a Luther brand grinder. They made some of the best products of their day. Here's a link to one of their catalogs:

http://toolemera.com/Trade%20Catalogs/tradecatalogs192.html

I have two and would never sell them. Solid internal gearing, oil wicks, heavy castings. All you could ask for in a hand grinder.

Gary

[Jim Koepke]

I don't know what the correct mechanical/engineering term is, but whatever that mechanism is in the sprocket, would also give you the benefit of being able to stop pedaling, but let the grinding wheels keep spinning--same effect as what happens when you stop pedaling on a bicycle.


On a bicycle, it is called a freewheel. On a wrench, it is a ratchet. In other uses it may be called a slip clutch or a one way clutch.


Tristan - In your situation, sandpaper may be ideal. One word of advice based on the experience of trying to thin a Hock blade down by 20 thousandths on sandpaper - buy some high-quality aluminum oxide or zirconium oxide (sometimes called "ceramic oxide") paper. Wet-dry paper uses silicon carbide as the abrasive, and while it's ideal for flattening waterstones, the abrasive isn't hard enough compared to hard tool steel. You'll wear out multiple sheets trying to take off even a little bit of hardened steel.

20 thousands is a lot to remove, especially if it is A1 or A2 steel. The wear factor is one reason I like to buy sandpaper for such use in PSA rolls. Then a long strip spreads out the wear and tends to cut the metal before the metal dulls the abrasive. Also, since the paper comes with its own adhesive, there isn't all the spraying and cleaning and it sticks down much better than the spray adhesive.

jim

[Eddie Darby]

Luther Grinder

http://www.woodworkingonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Grinder1.jpg

[Tristan Williams]

Shame shipping on those on ebay to Europe is so expensive!

[Matt Wilson]

I've been steadily getting rid of power tools but a grinder, or at least my idea of a grinder, is hard to do without. I've thought about getting a hand crank grinder. But grinding a tool well takes two hands, two steady hands... Cranking with one while trying to shape an edge with the other seems like an exercise in frustration to me. It turns the process into a two person job.


Keep in mind that unless your some muscle man, the wheel is spinning much slower so there is a much bigger "fuge" factor. At 3600+ rpm you can make a mess quick, not so much at the rate I crank at. ;)

[Sam Takeuchi]

Yeah. I often pay more for shipping the item itself, sometimes shipping is twice the price of the item.

By the way, where are you in Finland? From January, I'll be living across the border, in St. Petersburg.

[Tristan Williams]

I'm in the capital, Helsinki. Nice place, but the woodworking pickings are a bit thin on the ground... My better half's parents live just across the border from St Petersburg!

[Tristan Williams]

On the topic of grinding with sandpaper, I was bored this evening so I pulled out my glass plate (a couple of bucks from IKEA!) and attached a spread of grits from 60 to 1000 to it and went to work sharpening all my edge tools. Way more pleasant than the whetstones I used to use. One of my Two Cherries chisels had a couple of nasty chips in the edge from getting a bit abused in the recent renovations - 10 minutes at the paper and it had a perfect edge on it again. I use yellow paper (not sure of what its made of) for the low grits, they seem to keep their grit a lot longer than the wet and dry ones do when I need to grind out nasty chips like that.

A nice pint and an hour tuning my tools, good times :)

[Andres Sender]

I use a hand cranked grinder every summer at a violin making workshop taught by Michael Darnton. We all use it for plane blades of various sizes, knives, chisels, gouges. It's never been a problem, even though at home I use a powered grinder so I'm not practicing one-handed year-round.

At home I'm still using a slow speed grinder made 15 years ago from an arbor similar to the Woodcraft one mentioned earlier, and powered by an old motor I picked up somewhere for cheap.