First Hand Cut Dovetails

[Ken Shoemaker]

I read and applied all the advice given as how to cut dovetails.

I went to Woodcraft and bought a Japanese pull saw. It replaced the junk I had been using.

I spent much of night last night simply cutting parallel lines to a perpendicular scribed line.

I've tried to attach three pictures of my progress.

Thanks again to all you guys..... Ken


NOTE# Flaws are larger that they appear!!!! :rolleyes: 3/16th caulk should take care of the gaps.

[gary Zimmel]

Nothing beats the feeling when one bashes a pin and tail board together....

Pretty good Ken for the first one out of the shoot.
I found the better I got with the saw the less paring that had to be done
and the better the joint went together.

As a side note. Save the dust when you saw and when you put the joint together use it to fill minor flaws while the glue is setting.

Congrats again on that dovetail joint.
They will get better and better with practice.

And one last thing.
Watch those hand tools.
They have a nasty habit of multiplying.....

[Rob Young]

Congratuations! And down the slippery slope you go! :D

[John Keeton]

Ken, great job!! Particularly since you undertook to do your first with OAK!!!!!!:eek: Nothing like raising the bar on a challenge.

I sold a $200 dovetail jig, a $69 router, and a $20 bit ($289), and moved down to a dovetail saw $250, a couple of marking gauges-about $125, set of Blue Spruce chisels, skews and fishtail-somewhere around $400 or so, and various other necessities (maybe $1,000 total - dang! first time I have done this addition:o) - and have never looked back!!

I loved every foot of the slide down the slope:D

[Darrell Bottoms]

I've been doing just about everything to put off trying to cut dovetail's. Seeing your work...think I'll dive in.

What type of wood would you guy's recommend practicing on? How thick? Any help to make it a success would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for posting your work:)

[Ken Shoemaker]

Darrell,

I got two suggestions, #1) DONT USE OAK!!!!!!!! Try poplar, or that white clear crap from the Borgs. #2) Listen to what these guy tell you.... Somebody told me to draw a straight line and simply cut parallel lines to a your scribed line. I bet I cut 200 of them last night. Learning that kind of saw control makde all the difference. A good saw helps alot.

Thanks for all your kind words guys. But I have one more question; what is a "fishtail"?

Ken

[Jim Koepke]

Those look nice. I have been practicing in pine and they do not look that nice. Not sure if the pine has too much resin and is causing problems. Some are coming out pretty good. Need a bit more practice.

In the past, it seemed the fourth corner's dovetails always looked better than the first corner's dovetails.

jim

[Rob Young]

I've been doing just about everything to put off trying to cut dovetail's. Seeing your work...think I'll dive in.

What type of wood would you guy's recommend practicing on? How thick? Any help to make it a success would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for posting your work:)

If you can get mahogany, that is some sweet stuff to chisel. It can be expensive though.

Cherry and walnut cut nice but can be expensive too. Sassafras is fun to play with. I've seen that for as low as $2.40/bf

Poplar is a decent wood to practice with but it does have a tendancy to crush sometimes rather than cut. That is a sign your chisel needs to be resharpened (learned that the hard way).

Some people say to practice with pine, other say not to. It works OK but since it can act so much differently than a hardwood it might not be your best choice.

The upshot of all this is look around and see what kind of hardwood you can get your hands on (other than maybe oaks and ash and high-silica content exotics). Maybe you can get some scrap or short-ends from a cabinet shop. For practice, you don't need big pieces.

[Darrell Bottoms]

Darrell,

I got two suggestions, #1) DONT USE OAK!!!!!!!! Try poplar, or that white clear crap from the Borgs. #2) Listen to what these guy tell you.... Somebody told me to draw a straight line and simply cut parallel lines to a your scribed line. I bet I cut 200 of them last night. Learning that kind of saw control makde all the difference. A good saw helps alot.

Thanks for all your kind words guys. But I have one more question; what is a "fishtail"?

Ken

Thanks Ken! That'll be my first order then. Cutting to the line. I bought a pull saw because with arthritis, it's so much easier to pull than push. I think I read that you used one for the dovetail's....what do you think of that saw for this application?

I've got some soft maple I think I'll run through the planer to practice on.

Thanks again for offering your advice!

[Darrell Bottoms]

If you can get mahogany, that is some sweet stuff to chisel. It can be expensive though.

Cherry and walnut cut nice but can be expensive too. Sassafras is fun to play with. I've seen that for as low as $2.40/bf

Poplar is a decent wood to practice with but it does have a tendancy to crush sometimes rather than cut. That is a sign your chisel needs to be resharpened (learned that the hard way).

Some people say to practice with pine, other say not to. It works OK but since it can act so much differently than a hardwood it might not be your best choice.

The upshot of all this is look around and see what kind of hardwood you can get your hands on (other than maybe oaks and ash and high-silica content exotics). Maybe you can get some scrap or short-ends from a cabinet shop. For practice, you don't need big pieces.

I cut all my wood and what I have is: maple, red/white oak, pecan, hickory, cherry, walnut, and scrap pine. Of these, which would you grab? and how thick should I plane it down to?

Thanks Rob!

[Ken Shoemaker]

Pull saws work great!! I had a Craftsman Gents saw that I got in an $8.00 box at an auction. I got what I paid for. I stopped at Woodcraft yesterday and got the pull saw. Cut lines all last night.

Someone warned me to be real careful to remember to keep your kerf on the "waste side of the lines".

Darrell, I'm sure not an expert after this first attempt. It's more about asking the experts here and following thier instruction. Any sucess I have it do to the "expert" advise I recieved from "Da Creek"... Thanks again.

[John Keeton]

But I have one more question; what is a "fishtail"?

KenThis is a fishtail chisel.
http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/PDGImages/Shopping_Cart_Images/FT.500_TN.jpg (http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=FT.500)

I rarely use my skew chisels for dovetails, but I use my fishtail A LOT, particularly for halfblinds.

As for the wood species, I would suggest using a soft wood such as poplar for the tail board, and a species a bit harder for the pin board in order to use some of the compression factor that Cosman uses in his method. As a plus, walnut and poplar look nice together.

[Darrell Bottoms]

Cosman....now I see that I've got a lot more study to put in....

Will have to look into a fishtail. the benefit looks obvious.

Thanks John!

[Garth Jones]

I like cherry for testing out a new saw or playing with new chisels. It's not too hard and usually doesn't have odd surprises in the grain. As others have said, poplar is a good choice as well. I like milling my practice pieces to 1/2" since that is a common drawer side thickness.

After many years of using Japanese saws, I recently got my first push saw - the LV dovetail saw. I'm getting used to it right now, just cutting down lines. So far I'm very impressed with it.

Starting in oak? Wow, that is raising the bar. Once and awhile I do small runs of reproduction spindles (usually for staircases from historic homes). Usually they are out of poplar (going to be painted anyway) or mahogany. Last year I turned 28 out of white oak! Man, that beat me up. It did make me a much better spindle turner though. So if you can cut good dovetails in oak....

Cheers,
Garth

[David Keller NC]

I cut all my wood and what I have is: maple, red/white oak, pecan, hickory, cherry, walnut, and scrap pine. Of these, which would you grab? and how thick should I plane it down to?

None of those are going to be ideal as first-time woods, but if those are the only choices, I'd choose either the walnut or the cherry as the tail board, and the scrap pine as the pin board. That is, so long as it's white pine you're talking about. Avoid Southern Yellow - the vast density difference between the early and latewood will make chiseling very frustrating - the earlywood will crumble under the force needed to cut the hard latewood.

You will find, I think, that pecan and hickory are just about as hard as glass, and almost as brittle.

From the standpoint of easy availability and low cost, picking up a couple of poplar boards from Home Depot is the way to go. You can get a lot of practice pieces out of a 6" wide, 6 foot long poplar board, and I'm pretty sure it's sold nation wide.

[David Gendron]

I'm with David, I would go with the cherry... I love that stuff!

[Keith Christopher]

Very nice for some firsts. I wish my firsts were that nice. :eek:

I would practice with some hardwoods first personally. I've always seemed to cut better on hardwoods.

[Jim Koepke]

I am using pine because it is the wood that will be used for the project that will be using dovetails to hold the case together.

It may end up painted, SWMBO's idea. Though, if possible, my Jedi skills will be used to change her mind into staining.

jim

[Rob Young]

I cut all my wood and what I have is: maple, red/white oak, pecan, hickory, cherry, walnut, and scrap pine. Of these, which would you grab? and how thick should I plane it down to?

Thanks Rob!

5/8" or 1/2" is a nice size to work down to if your stock is already below 1". The 1/2" is pretty efficient if you can re-saw. The exact thickness isn't critical. However it is easier to practice through dovetails if all the pieces involved are the same thickness. No re-setting of the marking gauge. Otherwise, just pay attention and change the gauge as needed.

Remember that you should dress and surface the boards, the inside particularly BEFORE marking out and cutting. If you go back after cutting the dovetails and make any serious changes to the inside surfaces of the pieces, your joint won't come together clean any more. The outside surface isn't quite as critical in this manner.

[Terry Beadle]

You might also try aspen or birch. Any straight grained semi-hard wood that doesn't have knots etc. Red oak is unforgiving in clearances. Southern pine is brittle in spots, can break uncontrollably or unpredictable. I've had some success with cypress but it is a very soft wood but for practice it's not bad.

Like David said, cherry is the best of your given choices but can still give you some challenges.

I'd still give you an A on the first attempt with red oak. White oak is not much better either, but can be very pretty.

Regarding the saw cuts, I've always heard that you have to cut the line in half. I think that was before .05mm lead or Blue Spruce marking knives. If you are using a Japanease dove tail saw, and a Blue Spruce marking knife, then the kerf is so fine that cutting right beside the line will do a great job.

Really a great first dove tail job!

Enjoy.

[David Keller NC]

One other thought on practice wood. Beech is the ne plus ultra for a well-behaved hardwood that is a joy to work, decently hard so it won't crumble, and inexpensive. Despite the ubiquity of the beech tree in the woods, though, it can be hard to obtain as cabinet grade lumber. That's mostly because it's sawn up for pallets - I've been able to salvage quite a bit by carefully looking through the old ones that are to be thrown out.

[gary Zimmel]

Lots of different suggestions for the kind of wood to practice on...

Me I use what ever is in my scrap bin which is most times cherry, walnut and quartered white oak.
Most times my sides are birch or aspen. Depending what's on hand.
The birch can sometimes be hard to read which makes cleaning up the joint a bit testy at times.
I like aspen.
Downside is it is a little soft.
To over come the crushing of the fibers I have a set of chisels that are ground to 17-18 degrees. These can't be used for chopping but for clean up of my tail boards they slice the fibers very, very well.

If I am doing some practice, I make a joint, cut it off and start again.
This makes the scraps go a long way.

Don't get hung up on what's best.
One has to be able to work with the different woods.
Have at her and with a little more practice they will become second nature.
I have done quite a few hand cuts and still will do a few practice joints before doing a real one on a project.

One thing is for sure.
Every time I walk by a piece of furniture I have built for our home that has hand cut dovetails it still gives me a warm fuzzy.
Most do not appreciate them but I didn't build it for them.....


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