Machine Diagnosis with Video

[Paul Steiner]

I recently started teaching at a school that is about 35 years old. Most of the machines are at least 20 years old. The shop or lab was not maintained for probably 10 years, but still used by classes. The last order made for service or parts was from 2000. I have had to fix 2 bandsaws, tablesaw, jointer, lathe, and now a drill press. All the machines are powermatic which is nice but tracking down parts can be tough.

Linked are 2 videos first is the drill press it is a 1150. It vibrates alot, the belt is shaking like crazy hitting the centerpost, but the alignment looks good and the there is no play in the bearings that I can feel. This machine came out of storage and was sitting for 5+ years. Bad belt? Tell me what you think. Drill Press (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymY7pxRcbuM)
The jointer was originally wired to run backwards and the guard was broken. I fixed that but it makes a whine when it runs. I makes me think bad bearings. Tell me what you think. Jointer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyym6Jykykg)

[Barry Vabeach]

Paul, I am no expert, but I had a PM 50 jointer and it didn't make anywhere near that noise. I would start by taking off the belt and running the motor by itself to see what noise it makes. You might want to check at OWWM to get more help on old iron. http://www.owwm.org/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=875013c43bb1a250e2bfa78a3b014fb7

[Jerry Bruette]

Paul

After sitting for 5+ years I'd change that belt and see if it helps. Can you run the variable sheaves through the full range of motion? One of them might be hanging up and the belt could be slipping a little. Careful if you disassemble them they have some stout springs in them.

Hard to tell with the jointer unless I see it in person. You could use a screwdriver to listen to the bearings while you turn everything by hand with the disconnect thrown to the off position and locked out!!!!!

Good Luck
Jerry

[Jeff Willard]

If alignment is okay on the drill press I think I'd check belt tension, doesn't appear to be much. After that I'd think about replacing it. Um, the belt, not the press :eek:. I can't tell anything from the jointer video.

Just curious (if you don't mind saying), what school? I also live in Woodbridge.

Didn't notice it was a Reeves drive until it was pointed out. I'd swap the belt.

[Paul Steiner]

Thanks for all the input thus far. Just to answer a few questions. I can run the pulleys through the full range of motion. I teach at Woodbridge HS. I figured I need a new belt, but I need recommendations for vendors? The vendor I am currently working with took 5 weeks to get tablesaw belts. Also anybody know the size, there are no numbers on my belt. Thanks for the help!

[Jeff Willard]

Heh. I graduated from WSHS ('80). Have you tried going to Powermatic directly? I would think that they still support that machine. The couple of times that I bought from them, they shipped out fairly quickly.

I justed checked over at OWWM. There are two manuals for that machine in PDF form. One, from 1966, gives no insight into what belt that machine uses other than part #15-620. The other, from 1979, lists the belt as part #6077053. The belt is listed as 1922 V 443. I don't know anything about belt designations, so that may or may not make sense.

[Paul Steiner]

Powermatic has the belt for $130.15 or at least their website says they do. It is strange with Powermatic the stuff they support and the stuff they don't. I have both manuals from owwm, but what I really would like to know is how to get the belt off. Hey Jeff Go Vikings! You should see how the facilities have changed. Did you take woodshop? Who was your teacher?

[Jeff Willard]

Powermatic has the belt for $130.15 or at least their website says they do. It is strange with Powermatic the stuff they support and the stuff they don't. I have both manuals from owwm, but what I really would like to know is how to get the belt off. Hey Jeff Go Vikings! You should see how the facilities have changed. Did you take woodshop? Who was your teacher?

$130 :eek:. Ouch! Wish I could help you with belt removal, but I've never seen that machine.

Took electronics in HS-and "smoking court":cool:, which was just outside the door from the woodshop. Also took "party at the end of the airport runway", which can at least be partially blamed for my current situation. Cruddy course choices. At least I know what alliteration is :D.

[James Jackson]

Hi Paul:

Looking at the video, I think what you have is one or more “Burnt Spots” on the drive belt. From the video it looks like sped control for the grill press is achieved by variable width pulleys, one is the leader; the other is a spring loaded follower. This jumping of the belt occurs when the narrower section hits the follower and it tries to adjust and the belt “Hiccups”. This damage was probably caused by the drive motor being allowed to remain on, while the quill (Jacobs chuck) was stopped by the workload, chewing away part of the belt. Remove the belt place it on a flat surface and look for gapes in the edge of the belt meeting the flat surface.

jrj

[Paul Steiner]

Thanks James, How would you recommend taking the belt off? Take apart the leader or follower pulley? Also I forgot to mention there is black belt dust all over the chasis. So more evidence of a belt problem.

[Bob Vavricka]

Paul,
I found this on a wiki over on the Old WoodWorking Machines site. It shows how to change the belt on a Powermatic 1150. I'm not sure what model you have, but maybe it will help you figure yours out.

http://wiki.owwm.com/Default.aspx?Page=PowermaticDrillPressBearingRepla cement&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

I taught at Woodbridge H.S. in 1987-88. PM sent with some memories of that experience.
Bob V.

[george wilson]

I doubt the pulley is making the DP noise. Sounds more like bearings on BOTH machines.

[Pete Bradley]

Both machines have bad bearings. Bearings are shot long before there's detectable play.

Slip the belts off and run the motors. With the motor running if you get anything other than a hum, the motor needs bearings. Your local electric motor shop can do this fairly cheaply.

I would replace the jointer bearings just as a matter of course, since that job is relatively easy. The drill press sounds horiffic and probably needs at least pulley bearings. This is a significantly more complicated job.

Both of these are excellent quality machines worth fixing. I recommend you join the forum at owwm.org to get more information. You'll probably find someone there who can get you a cheaper source for a belt, and you may even find someone in your area who's willing to help with the machine bearings.

Pete

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Bearings on the DP prolly need te be replaced

When it makes noise the belt is also flopping a round a bit indicating some change in the tension for that instant.

I'd try oil first.

The jointer seems not to be too noisy

[Paul Steiner]

Thank you for the input. Yes! Bad news I am thinking bearings need to be replaced on at least the jointer an probably both machines. Good news is that the parts are paid for by the county. So needed or not both machines are getting bearings.

[Ken Shoemaker]

Paul,

If it were me; I'd go up the ladder at Powermatic. This is a great opportunity for Powermatic to get some good press in this economic tornado. If they step up, everyone would win.

Good luck, and dont take the first no for the "final answer". Keep in mind they may be looking for an opportunity just like this.

Ken