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brent mcmillen
10-02-2009, 5:23 PM
I would like to purchase photograv but the $400 price tag is a bit much as I use the laser mostly as a hobby right now. Does anybody know any where I can get it cheaper?

Steve Clarkson
10-02-2009, 5:38 PM
I'll sell you my copy for $350!!!!!

Frank Corker
10-02-2009, 6:19 PM
Mercenary! Brent, have you done a search on this subject using the onsite search facility for this site? There have been a lot of alternatives offered for Photograv substitutes. Well worth a search.

I personally think Photograv is a great program. I was however disappointed with the upgraded version 3.0 and feel that the people at Photograv made some monumental errors with some of their settings. I also think that they should have had some type of representation here considering this is one of the big laser user groups. Had they done so, we might be looking at version 3.5 and have a great product, right now they have something that delivers only a reasonable result, definitely little wow factor and ludicrously wild speed/power settings. Great shame.

The alternatives to search for are the Gold Method, which is free and can be used in conjunction with Adobe photoshop. Also there are some quite a few Adobe filters that would give very similar results at a little cost.

Tim Bateson
10-02-2009, 7:47 PM
Brent, You didn't indicate which laser you are using. It makes it harder for us to answer without this information. I suggest you edit your signature and add this info. It will greatly help now and for any future questions.

Larry Bratton
10-03-2009, 11:18 AM
Mercenary! Brent, have you done a search on this subject using the onsite search facility for this site? There have been a lot of alternatives offered for Photograv substitutes. Well worth a search.

I personally think Photograv is a great program. I was however disappointed with the upgraded version 3.0 and feel that the people at Photograv made some monumental errors with some of their settings. I also think that they should have had some type of representation here considering this is one of the big laser user groups. Had they done so, we might be looking at version 3.5 and have a great product, right now they have something that delivers only a reasonable result, definitely little wow factor and ludicrously wild speed/power settings. Great shame.

The alternatives to search for are the Gold Method, which is free and can be used in conjunction with Adobe photoshop. Also there are some quite a few Adobe filters that would give very similar results at a little cost.
Well Frank, if he doesn't have Photoshop, he's looking at a $600 ticket and a pretty steep learning curve. I use Photgrav and like it fine up to a point. I just don't pay any attention to those speed settings. Good ole practical experience and info in this forum can get you excellent output from Photograv.

brent mcmillen
10-03-2009, 12:47 PM
Thanks Frank, I have tried searching for Gold Method and have had no luck as of yet, do you have a URL that I can go to?

brent mcmillen
10-03-2009, 12:48 PM
Thanks I edited my signature, I am new on here,
My laser is the Machinearia M350 35Watt

Tim Bateson
10-03-2009, 1:00 PM
Frank was very PC in his evaluation of PhotoGrav. Those that have seen my rantings know I don't pull any punches and my evaluation is anything but PC.
Today I feel like being nice...:cool:
I'm sure if you HAVE to use it and have mastered it, you can get decent results. I personnaly have near ZERO use for it as Epilog and/or ANY photo editor is more than capable of duplicating it's results with much less effort. I'll use it 1 in 500 jobs, but wouldn't miss it if I hadn't wasted $410.
OK, sort-of nice...:D

Darren Null
10-03-2009, 1:17 PM
I disagree. It's the best dithering algorithm that I've seen and I've tested everything I can get my hands on against it.

For SOME jobs on SOME materials a $15 (ish) photoshop plugin called India Ink gets better results (usually cruder-burning materials like glass); but for subtlety and detail, photograv is usually the clear winner.

Whether it's worth the money is another matter altogether. IMO it should be a quarter of the price and available as a photoshop plugin...then it'd be genuinely worth it. I never use the speed and power settings and use the 'cherry' conversion. Works for me.

Tim Bateson
10-03-2009, 3:08 PM
Darren, You don't indicate what machine you're using in your signature. As I stated on some machines it's necessary. For Epilog users it's luxury software if one has money to throw away.

Doug Griffith
10-03-2009, 3:22 PM
This may help. You can dig through the action to see whats going on.

http://www.dogcollarlabor.com/smc

Dan Hintz
10-03-2009, 3:49 PM
I found that I can achieve excellent photo results with a simple image editor (one that allows for contrast enhancement, histograming (though not necessary), and edge sharpening). Of course, I may have a leg up on most out there as my masters research dealt with image processing, so I know how to manipulate the images, but it's not difficult by any stretch of the word once you know what to do.

I also suggest starting with the Gold Method, look at the macro to see what each step does, and play from there.

Frank Corker
10-03-2009, 4:31 PM
Thanks Frank, I have tried searching for Gold Method and have had no luck as of yet, do you have a URL that I can go to?


Brent, you need to go here:

http://www.dogcollarlabor.com/smc


Our resident brainbox, Doug Griffiths has posted an excellent easy install, upgrade of the Gold Method described here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=65376&highlight=Gold+Method&page=3

Rodne Gold
10-03-2009, 5:50 PM
Darren , I also only use "auto" and "cherry:" in photograv for everything and get exellent results 99% of the time.
Why do I use PG and not exclusively the "gold method" , well I have a designer and 3 laser operators and PG is bish bash boom and its done with predictable results for em , the less fiddling they have to do the better. For me , I have the time to futz....
We actually use it far less for pictures than for engraving multicoloured vector based clipart and logos and the like , it does a good job there.
At any rate , just about every laser driver I have seen has a photo and or greyscale mode which would most likely give good results if one took the time to tinker with settings.
You dont need PS to use the gold method , same stuff can be done in corelpaint - which comes with draw..
Most "famous" thing I did with photograv is a series of Zippo lighters with Colin Farrel and his niece or kid , I dunno which , pics attached. (original which was disgusting , PG output , which lasered well into cermark.)
I was quite rude to him as I had no idea of who this unkempt bossy guy was that came into my showroom , he was shouting the odds..and raised my hackles..

Darren Null
10-03-2009, 8:45 PM
You don't indicate what machine you're using in your signature. As I stated on some machines it's necessary.
It's not really relevant. Yes, various printers come with driver come with drivers that contain image-rendering software. I'm fairly confident that none of them are as good as photograv though (with the possible exception of the new 1-touch from Universal, which owners seem pretty impressed by; but I haven't personally seen).

Luxury software? Yes it is, in a sense, in that there are plenty of free ways to get your image lasered. But rendering an image in only black or white while still retaining meaning and detail in the image is tricky territory for software...shading is difficult and you can't use any sort of feathering. Most printer drivers (and corel for that matter) use commonly-available dithering algorithms: stucki; floyd-steinberg; jarvis and the like). Photograv uses something different (or, possibly a new combination of commonly-available algorhythms). How they do it, I don't know. But the Photograv dithering is the best I've seen by quite a margin (including the Gold method...sorry Rodne). This means that it isn't a luxury...even if the client couldn't tell the difference, I can, and an inferior result would wind me up.

That said; it's appallingly expensive for what it is and the vintage interface is -frankly- embarrassing to look at (I bought a cheap v2.11; things may have changed there). For me, they should just put the dithering algorithm into a photoshop plugin and charge $99 for it. They'd sell a lot more I reckon.

Rodne- I do the same for much the same reasons (except I haven't got any loyal minions...or the underground volcano lair either.....hmmm). I've done the testing when I have time so I KNOW I can get a decent and predictable result when I'm doing it in front of customers.
Do you know, I'd never thought of using it for multicoloured vectors. DOH!

Bill Cunningham
10-06-2009, 10:39 PM
Yup! As Rodney said re-photograv, Auto, and cherry.. Sometimes you have to lighten or darken the image a bit depending on the material, but in most cases, I can have a photo ready for the laser in 15 minutes or less.. Also the setting for generic granite works well on both types of lasersketch granite

James & Zelma Litzmann
10-10-2009, 11:21 AM
For photos on mirrors and tiles I always use the Black on White or White on Black IPI Laser Plastic Settings, may not be right but works for what we need it for. I love Photograv, haven't upgraded, happy with it as is.

Adam Orton
10-10-2009, 3:22 PM
Before I go too far I have a bit of a handicap and I engrave strictly as a hobby. When I got my laser I could not for the life of me output a decent picture so I bought Photograv. I followed the instructions and the very first picture engraving I made looked really good. I went from nothing to something decent for 400 bucks. As I do it as a hobby friends want pics on all kinds of things so for me it was a great purchase as I do quite a few photos. That said if you are only going to do photos on rare occasions I would explore the other methods mentioned and just practice. Oh and when I researched Photograv there were as many thumbs up as there were thumbs down. One last detail the manual that comes with it has a lot of great information in it, it's certainly worth a few bucks.

Bill Cunningham
10-10-2009, 8:50 PM
For those that can't afford PG, or Photoshop to run the GOLD method script, here is a conversion of original GOLD method that Rodney posted a few years ago, changed to use Corel Photopaint step by step commands rather than photoshop..

1) Convert to 8 bit greyscale (image/conver to 8 bit grayscale)

2) Resize the image to the size its gonna get engraved using 150-300 ppi (150 for less detail)
(image/resample)

3) Bump up contrast and brightness about +25 in
both cases - you don't want the pic to be insipid areas of medium gray. (image/brightness-contrast-intensity)

4) Use the unsharp mask at 500% and a radius of 3-5 pixels - threshold 0 - this will exaggerate edges radically , but that's what you need. In fact you can do this and then STILL add another unsharp mask at 150 % , 1 pixel and 0 threshold AFTER the 1st unsharp if you want even more edge detection
(effects/sharpen/unsharp mask)

5) Convert to a black and white 1 bit and a diffusion pattern. (image/1 bit black and white/diffusion)

5) laser.

It's simple and it works OK..