calling bob smalser...

[Chris M Pyle]

Hey Bob,

I have appreciated your write ups so much, I am curious if you know names of trichloroethylene products that can be used. I have been searching but can't find any products locally and don't want to have it shipped. I am trying to clean up a few chisels and block planes.

[Bob Smalser]

Tacoma Screw here locally sells a commercial aerosol product called "Safety Solvent" that is 100% trichloroethylene.

As the stuff is a suspected carcinogen, the name choice has more to do with fire than whether nitrile rubber gloves and a good organic respirator are a good idea. They are.

Otherwise the only other source I know of is Brownells. I also have never found an equal substitute for it as a degreaser.

[Joe Close]

Most brake cleaners are pretty much the same thing. Regardless, any form of trichloroethylene, one should take good safety precautions. Aside from a carcinogen, it contributes to liver problems.

[Chris M Pyle]

Thank you for the replies. I am going to pick up some brake cleaner, gloves and work in an open environment.

Thanks for the suggestions and warnings.

[Richard Niemiec]

Quite apart from your personal protection, just a note on being "green"...... TCE is one of the most infamous and ubiquitous groundwater pollutants out there, so please dispose of properly, or if not, get ready to get a new well drilled.......

[David Keller NC]

Chris - if the issue is removing years of dried-up grease and oil, laquer thinner works very well for the purpose. It's a lot easier to get, and while not exactly "safe" in comparison to something like mineral spirits, it's a lot less toxic than chlorinated alkyl solvents like trichloroethylene.

[Bob Smalser]

He doesn't want TCE for the heavy grease lifting plain old mineral spirits and a brass brush does better and cheaper. TCE usually isn't a polution spill problem or very good as an initial cleaner because besides being expensive, it evaporates almost immediately and is reserved for the final degreasing to get the steel chemically clean for the best adhesion of phosphate bluing to inhibit rust. Nothing works as well.

Rustproofing Tools
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=28340

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/332356968.jpg

[David Keller NC]

Think I'd still consider laquer thinner for the purpose - the shop I used to work in switched to it when TCE got really expensive and difficult to dispose of.

[Bob Smalser]

Acetone. An excellent degreaser but better water displacer and also evaporates almost immediately.

Watch for it to become more difficult to get, as it's used to make an easily-detonated explosive favored by terrorists. There I'm a bit concerned we're only catching the morons, because while a grown, bearded man buying cases of nail polish remover in a beauty shop attracts attention, the same guy in painters coveralls buying gallons of lacquer thinner at Home Depot wouldn't cause anyone to bat an eye.

[Richard Niemiec]

TCE usually isn't a polution spill problem or very good as an initial cleaner because besides being expensive, it evaporates almost immediately <snip>

Beg to differ. I've been involved in a dozen or so superfund sites, from small industrial to large, and TCE is uniformly at the top of the list. Perhaps in the quantities we are talking about its not an issue, but its a well-known groundwater pollutant.

[Bob Smalser]

Beg to differ. I've been involved in a dozen or so superfund sites, from small industrial to large, and TCE is uniformly at the top of the list. Perhaps in the quantities we are talking about its not an issue, but its a well-known groundwater pollutant.

I'm not disputing that. But around the shop I haven't found TCE to be a disposal problem.

[Chris M Pyle]

I did pick up a brake cleaner, but i'm almost certain it said tetrachloroethylene.

Will the extra chlorine group make a big difference or will it still clean and evaporate like I was hoping for?

For what it's worth, there were a bunch of low VOC formulas, but I didn't pay attention once I saw there was no ....chloroethylene ingredients

[Bob Smalser]

Will the extra chlorine group make a big difference or will it still clean and evaporate like I was hoping for?



Dunno....you'll have to try it. If after scrubbing with mineral spirits followed by brake cleaner on the clean paper towel, the surface of the steel is difficult to "wet" with the phosphate, then you won't get as durable a coating and will benefit from Brownell's TCE. I often fold my paper towel into fourths so I have multiple fresh surfaces for multipe passes on the tough ones.

[David Keller NC]

I did pick up a brake cleaner, but i'm almost certain it said tetrachloroethylene.

Will the extra chlorine group make a big difference or will it still clean and evaporate like I was hoping for?

For what it's worth, there were a bunch of low VOC formulas, but I didn't pay attention once I saw there was no ....chloroethylene ingredients

Can't comment on the phosphate bluing like Bob can, but from a chemistry perspective, the properties of trichloroethylene and tetrachloroethylene are fairly similar. Both of them were used in the dry cleaning industry because of their excellent grease solvating properties before the advent of supercritical CO2 processes.

As Bob notes, if the brake cleaner has something in it that leaves an oily residue on the steel, then use laquer thinner or acetone as the final cleaning step. Either will remove any remaining residue and make the steel surface hydrophylic (in other words, water will wet it rather than beading up).

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/8939574/126252797.jpg

Good and bad wetting action on steel.

Regardless of manufacturer's claims that the bluing pentrates oil, the durability of the finish is in direct proportion to the quality of the chemical reaction, which in turn depends on the cleanliness of the steel.

Is the process perfect? No. But a dozen generations of gunsmiths haven't been fooling themselves for 200+ years, either.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/8939574/126252796.jpg

This jointer table at a mobile site was brushed off and tarped without the grease rag wipedown it should have got. The tarp leaked and this is what it looked like a few weeks later. The lack of puddling shows the table has little to no oil protection. Imagine what it would have looked like if the table wasn't blued at all. The fix was a quick rubdown with red Scotchbrite and WD-40 to remove the rust, followed by degreasing and a thimble full of phosphoric acid followed by bluing for a full repair.

[Bob Strawn]

The phosphoric Acid that I use before I use oxpho does a rather brilliant job of removing oil. As far as I can detect it removes every last bit of oil. Since the steel wool I use to rub in the oxpho probably has mineral oil on it, (it usually does) I am not however totally oil free. Your protective glove are also probably treated with an oil, so perfect oil free treatment is unlikely. I see no need to risk using trichloroethylene. If I need serious grease removal, before parkerizing I use TSP.

The results of following the Smalser Method are pretty amazing. The only downside, is that it forces me to use a microbevel on some tools, to maintain the finish on the majority of the tool. I prefer a large flat bevel generally. The rust resistance however, makes it worth it, and I love the look.

Bob