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Ben Levesque
09-29-2009, 11:53 AM
Anyone ever had something similar happening?

Out of the sudden, focus can no longer be obtain when focusing with the table, those variations just happen to be appearing, the only thing I did different was unscrew the head for better cleaning, it should not give a so big difference in focus once the head is being put back ? I did this before and never had any problems before in focus difference. My table is well aligned in all 4 corners with the focus tool. Anyone had this kind of problem before. And yes 0.019" is a show stopper for me, all materials done with this variation had to be thrown in the garbage can.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/3966412754_9242b22e57_o.jpg

If it is lens alignment, I have an "incomplete" lens alignment manual, so I did not want to go in that direction, I've pretty much shimmed all of my work area until today.

(Incomplete manual in the sense of using the wrong words or the wrong direction, I've studied it and there is quite a few discrepancies that will bring me in the wrong direction, which pretty much scares me to play with the lens in the back, directly on the canon) never got a response from tech support on this matter, I've send a complete report on the manual asking questions, response was "We never quite took the time to do a good manual" and that was it for the alignment support.

Any feedback would help!

Thanks

Ben

Dee Gallo
09-29-2009, 12:01 PM
I had this problem when I first got my second laser (used)- I was using the manual focus device that came with it and nothing worked right. Epilog Tech told me to use the auto focus first, and then measure the height to see if it was exactly 2". Then, use the focus device - sure enough, it was off! I loosened the screws and reset it to the correct height and no more problems.

Hope this helps, dee

Ben Levesque
09-29-2009, 12:42 PM
I loosened the screws and reset it to the correct height and no more problems.

Hope this helps, dee

Hi Dee, I think you didn't quite saw that the focus tool is good at zero,zero. And that it was always working well before, You can't get a 0.005" tolerance with the Auto-focus, plus I had adjusted the manual focus tool myself 2 years ago, when I've installed my new 1.5" lens, no problems until recently, or since I am shimming more and more the sides.

Sorry!

Ben

Peck Sidara
09-29-2009, 1:35 PM
Ben,

Removing the lens head will not effect your focus because it's keyed and removing this part doesn't effect the legs which the focus gauge sits on.

A few things come to mind:

1) the table isn't properly leveled. There are 4 adjustment screws (with 4 locking screws) one in each corner. You should be able to dial this in pretty good.

2) If you're using the vector grid to determine focus, it could be the vector grid is slightly warped/bent.

3) If you're using the stainless steel task plate on top of the vector grid to determine focus, the task plate could be slightly bent.

"never got a response from tech support on this matter, I've send a complete report on the manual asking questions, response was "We never quite took the time to do a good manual" and that was it for the alignment support."

Doesn't sound right to me. Call them again or if you'd prefer I can get our service manager involved to get one of his guys assigned until resolved.

Dee Gallo
09-29-2009, 3:08 PM
Hi Dee, I think you didn't quite saw that the focus tool is good at zero,zero. And that it was always working well before, You can't get a 0.005" tolerance with the Auto-focus, plus I had adjusted the manual focus tool myself 2 years ago, when I've installed my new 1.5" lens, no problems until recently, or since I am shimming more and more the sides.

Sorry!

Ben

Sorry, I misunderstood your post - I guess I don't understand the problem after all!

Ben Levesque
09-29-2009, 3:30 PM
Ben,
Removing the lens head will not effect your focus because it's keyed and removing this part doesn't effect the legs which the focus gauge sits on.

Thanks, I wanted to be sure of that!



1) the table isn't properly leveled. There are 4 adjustment screws (with 4 locking screws) one in each corner. You should be able to dial this in pretty good.Yes, I know about the corner screws. If you look carefully at my drawing, at X= 18, the table touch the focus tool at the same place from were it touch it at X = 0 meaning the table is leveled according to the lens head. I've look into that earlier.



2) If you're using the vector grid to determine focus, it could be the vector grid is slightly warped/bent.
Here again the focus tool would have some gap were the bents are, not the issue here. The focus tool touch the table at the same place everywhere on the table.



3) If you're using the stainless steel task plate on top of the vector grid to determine focus, the task plate could be slightly bent.
Here also I would have some differences in the focus tool touching around the steel plate, I never have any needs for the plate, but I've use it to confirm my level was good everywhere on the table.



"never got a response from tech support on this matter, I've send a complete report on the manual asking questions, response was "We never quite took the time to do a good manual" and that was it for the alignment support."

Doesn't sound right to me. Call them again or if you'd prefer I can get our service manager involved to get one of his guys assigned until resolved.No it's not right, but thats the issue, I need support by email only, since I'm working on my machine only week-ends, plus less cost on long distance, my English in writing is good, so it is easier for me to write than to speak it, but I get no replies after a week, or when I get a reply, it take another week to get another one, and goes on and on, until I get feed-up and where I shim my machine instead. I'm still suspecting a lens alignment issue, but ain't sure.

Here's copy of the alignment document I've send to Epilog back in 2007 with all my questions in it.
http://cid-380e7822d337da96.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/Mini%20laser%20alignment2.doc
Would gladly like to have a more recent one.

Ben

Peck Sidara
09-29-2009, 5:49 PM
Ben,

I'm not sure I understand the problem then.

We use the manual focus gauge to determine table level. We do not use a level or the likes.

If your focus gauge is touching the table in all four corners, where does the .012" (bottom left corner) and .019" (top right corner) come into play?

Is this the amount you have to "shim" your material up to get consistent engraving?

Based on your drawing, I'm assuming you have a Mini18? Please advice.

I am unable to open the attachment thru the link, I'll be happy to forward to tech support for closer review if you email the doc at pecks at epiloglaser dot com.

The laser beam alignment isn't exactly rocket science, nor should it take a rocket scientist to write the doc (eating my words, I might just be the person who wrote it up).

The laser beam alignment is a possible cause and tech support can walk you thru it if necessary. They'll even call you if you can't call them (long distance charges) but they will require your time, patience and availability at the machine during normal business hours.

LMK and we'll go from there.

Ben Levesque
09-29-2009, 6:04 PM
Ben,

I'm not sure I understand the problem then.

We use the manual focus gauge to determine table level. We do not use a level or the likes.

[QUOTE=Peck Sidara;1224595]
If your focus gauge is touching the table in all four corners, where does the .012" (bottom left corner) and .019" (top right corner) come into play?
Is this the amount you have to "shim" your material up to get consistent engraving?

That's it exactly! 0.019" shimmed on the X axe
ans 0.012 on the Y axe.



Based on your drawing, I'm assuming you have a Mini18? Please advice.
Yes a Mini 18, 35 watts .



I am unable to open the attachment thru the link, I'll be happy to forward to tech support for closer review if you email the doc at pecks at epiloglaser dot com.
Hotmail seems to have put an underscore at the end of the doc_, just simply re-save as .doc, or simply select word to open it, it it should without issues, sorry for the confusion.



The laser beam alignment isn't exactly rocket science, nor should it take a rocket scientist to write the doc (eating my words, I might just be the person who wrote it up).
My notes in the files is questioning exactly that.

Thanks Peck

Ben

David Fairfield
09-30-2009, 9:48 AM
Hey Ben

Are you using the 1.5" lens? I've had similar sort of experience, I assumed its due to the reduced depth of focus compounded by warp in the wood and paper materials I use. Still experimenting with focusing my 1.5" lens and keeping it in focus, so I'm interested to see how you and Peck solve this issue.

Dave

Ben Levesque
09-30-2009, 10:24 AM
Hey Ben

Are you using the 1.5" lens? I've had similar sort of experience, I assumed its due to the reduced depth of focus compounded by warp in the wood and paper materials I use. Still experimenting with focusing my 1.5" lens and keeping it in focus, so I'm interested to see how you and Peck solve this issue.

Dave

Hi David,
Yes I am using a 1.5 lens only. Regarding the warping, I had built a special jig to make sure the higher bum is only protruding 0.005". See here http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/2325711664_5141e2987d_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/2325711140_be5fde4cf3_b.jpg

But the issue related to the focus is analyzed without using this jig, or any warped material, I pointed out the measures directly on a well leveled table, and verifying that the focus tool barely kiss the flat surface of the table or the material tested for this mater.

Right now I can only focus on position X = 4.0 and Y= 0.25 because I had to shimmed the table, meaning the focus tool can no longer verify the level of any material outside of this zone, because I've created a slope on the table, so as of now, with this slope, I am able to aquire a perfect cut everywhere on my table surface, but I suspect in one month I will have to "again" find how much I will need to shim more. Or until I can have answers to the points I had inserted in the lens alignment manual.
http://cid-380e7822d337da96.skydrive...alignment2.doc (http://cid-380e7822d337da96.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/Mini%20laser%20alignment2.doc) (chose open with; and browse for word, or just save as .doc and then open with word, hotmail is probably protecting this file as .doc_ for virus purpose, I can't force it to .doc only, but it is really readable with word)

Ben

Peck Sidara
09-30-2009, 11:03 AM
Ben,

I am still unable to download/open the attachment thru the link, send via email to pecks at epiloglaser dot com.

Below are my suggestions. Ultimately the time and effort put forth in finding a solution thru the forums will have to be placed with our technical support group. We can assign one of our best techs to your inquiry and it can be done via phone (they can call you) or via email. They're here to help but will need your time and patience while they go thru the trouble-shooting.

Once I receive the document, I will forward to our service manager for review.

*Your laser beam alignment needs to be checked to make sure the laser beam is hitting close to dead center in all four corners. The alignment procedure helps but it's still a manual process and requires a little patience and trial and error.

*Your focusing point should be checked for accuracy. It's possible that you're right at the verge of being out of focus using your manual focus. This in turn will amplify focus issues across the table. Checking focus can be done thru technical support, it involves running a black filled box on black anodized aluminum. Once your manual focus is set, you'll want to adjust your auto-focus to match (regardless of if you use it or not).

*It's possible that you're experiencing a slight loss of power (dirty/delaminated optics), laser beam alignment and laser source are all possible causes. If you're using and have always used a certain power/speed/frequency combination, you might be right at the cut off point of cutting completely thru and not cutting thru.

Trying slowing down the speed or increasing the power.
Get the melamine laser power test from tech support to help determine if your laser tube is outputting the correct wattage.

Ben Levesque
09-30-2009, 11:46 AM
Ben,
I am still unable to download/open the attachment thru the link, send via email to pecks at epiloglaser dot com.


I will send you the file by email.



Below are my suggestions. Ultimately the time and effort put forth in finding a solution thru the forums will have to be placed with our technical support group. We can assign one of our best techs to your inquiry and it can be done via phone (they can call you) or via email. They're here to help but will need your time and patience while they go thru the trouble-shooting.


Understood, I will stop posting about this issue here, since bringing patience as an argument if definitely out of the question, imagine.. building so tiny items on my part, do you really think patience is the problem? Plus, continuously dragging this problem since the year 2007? I think I am patient enough, but before playing with alignment or setups, it is important to receive proper response and getting good directions.

Thanks Peck!

Ben
End of line.