Machine Choices

[James Jaragosky]

In another post I listed a machine that I am trying to get off eBay; and if that comes through that will be my first choice.
Now that I am in the shopping mode I came up with this from Frank Fang from Rabbit http://www.hxlaser.com/products/laser4.htm Frank has offered a total package delivered through customs, at a very tempting offer.
But… I found this; http://iehk.net/Products/IE1200.html and it appears to have some features that the rabbit line is missing. Namely:
3) Resolution User controlled from 75 to 1200 dpi
4) Speed and Power Controls: High Speed DSP control. Computer or manually controlled speed and power in 1% increments to 100%. Vector color mapping links speed and power settings to any RGB color.
And lastly, I found this; http://iehk.net/Products/IE2400.html
Now my thinking on this last one goes like this. I have always wanted to carve images on doors; to this end I purchased a cnc router last year. I have yet to build a door, as I haven’t got the space or time right now, so I have not yet carved a door. The laser I have right now is the money maker of my operation. The cnc machine has been a money hole, bits are not cheap and one pin nail or staple can be costly. Everyone likes the 3d look but few want to pay for it. If I get a full size bed like this one I could just engrave stock doors; at this point I think this is a compromise I can live with. So I may just sell the cnc router and get this. I do not have the room for both full size tables.
I know some of you are not quite fans of Chinese machines and I respect your valid arguments for your position. But I am quite comfortable with the challenge and risks associated with one of these machines.
I am looking for opinions on whether the larger machine will be able to do everything a smaller one can. Will I still be able to do a 12 x 12 tile on the larger machine and get the same detail I would on the smaller machine?
Do you think that the speed is comparable between the two machines?
Do you think a front door with a full size image of your choice, is a marketable product?
Am I half baked?
Right now China is celebrating new years for the next week or so, I have that long to decide, but within the next week; I will purchase something.
You’re input into my decision process is very much wanted; as I have come to respect the maturity and wisdom that this diverse group has to offer.
Thanks Jim J.

[Rodne Gold]

If you can afford it , I might take a chance on one of the chinese machines..considering one myself...
However I do think carved or laser engraved doors is not something I would rely on to make money.
$7k for that big bugger looks quite good - looks like a nice machine to cut production volumes of pex etc. I would look at it as a pure cutter and if it engraves ok , treat it as a bonus.

[Dan Hintz]

James, what CNC did you get?

[Mike Null]

James

That's a very interesting machine. I would have two concerns; one it appears to have very limited depth adjustment, perhaps as little as 2 or 3 inches; and two, it has only one 4" exhaust opening. For a machine of that size it seems inadequate to me.

When they say it's for cutting fabric and leather that reinforces the thought that it's depth adjustment is limited.

[Darren Null]

That big one looks interesting. Some things I noticed about the specs though:

The head focusses up & down 40mm. That's not a lot and you will NEED the adjustable table (brings depth up to 16 inches, which is OK).

Control is via a PC card, which means you'll have to run it from a desktop computer- laptop isn't an option.

[James Jaragosky]

James, what CNC did you get?
I have a 4x8 Camaster, with the PC router. It is a good machine, and it is fun to run.I enjoy creating stuff in aspire, and watching it come to life on the router. But It just is not generating the cash flow the laser is.
But in its defense it took me a two years to get to the point where the laser is starting to become a stead income generator. I could not support myself with it yet, but things are finally coming together. I make plaques with the router and they sell OK, In the craft fair that I do on weekends I compete with two retired school teachers with an shopbot, they sell plaques for as little as $9 for a 10 x 36". After wood,stain and sealers they cant be making much more than a couple of dollars on a plaque. I just will not work for free to get that business.

[James Jaragosky]

James

That's a very interesting machine. I would have two concerns; one it appears to have very limited depth adjustment, perhaps as little as 2 or 3 inches; and two, it has only one 4" exhaust opening. For a machine of that size it seems inadequate to me.

When they say it's for cutting fabric and leather that reinforces the thought that it's depth adjustment is limited.
The exhaust did concern me as well. The first thought I had was how much volume could possibly flow through a 4" flex pipe.
I have not had much need for more table height. It will need to raster engrave to suit my needs.

[James Jaragosky]

If you can afford it , I might take a chance on one of the chinese machines..considering one myself...
However I do think carved or laser engraved doors is not something I would rely on to make money.
$7k for that big bugger looks quite good - looks like a nice machine to cut production volumes of pex etc. I would look at it as a pure cutter and if it engraves ok , treat it as a bonus.
As always Rodney I appreciate your advice and prospective. I do not have a current market that will support a machine dedicated to cutting only. I really need a machine that can raster.
I will make this inquiry to the manufacture as well. but as you all know communication with the Chinese is difficult.
Thanks for the advice.
jim j.

[Dee Gallo]

Do you think a front door with a full size image of your choice, is a marketable product?
Am I half baked?

Right now China is celebrating new years for the next week or so,

Jim, my brother lives in a high-end place in Florida and paid $3000 for his front door, carved wood - bought through the builder. And he chose it from some stock designs, not his own design. I was in St. Croix and stayed in a house where they paid $7000 for their double doors, custom carved and not very nice actually. People will pay, but you have to connect yourself to the builders who supply the specialty connections (decorative painters, custom doors and stair parts, etc.) The actual customers won't contact you. Which means you need to be there - if you don't live near such a developer or in a large city, it would be tough to find enough customers to make it happen. If you do, it's not very hard. The people with lots of money are still buying stuff.

I was visiting Jacksonville FL once and went into a paint store to get some stuff for a decorative door painting job I was doing. The owner found out what I do and on the spot offered me a full time teaching position there (no thanks) and I was also offered several mural jobs by other customers. And that's without showing a portfolio or anything. My 2 week visit turned into 2 more mural jobs and a faux marble fireplace job, paying for my trip.

BTW- to everyone who wants to go this route, make yourself a book - that's a small photo album which you can leave at the store (they usually have a table full of them from various artisans) with contact info. Contractors will call you.

So it goes back to the old question: who are your customers, where is your market? Find them and you're in business.

cheers, dee

OH- and what New Year is this? Chinese New Year is the end of January.

[Dan Hintz]

I believe 2010 is the Year of the Tiger...

[Dee Gallo]

I believe 2010 is the Year of the Tiger...

Yes, I know - I was asking what new year is being celebrated right now so he can't do business in China?

:) dee

[Dan Hintz]

<smack forehead>

[Robert J Duval]

The machines look ok for the price. I would think that they would use something better than masking tape to hold the laser tube in place for the pictures. About the 4" outlet you can still get good are movement with a good blower.

[James Jaragosky]

Yes, I know - I was asking what new year is being celebrated right now so he can't do business in China?

:) dee
How embarrassing. I was told that the whole country was on a 1 week holiday and nothing would get done until Oct. 6th when everyone returned to work. I just assumed that it was the new year. That old adage about assuming comes to mind.
Dee, unlike many people here I do not except to ever support myself doing this type of work. I do it because I enjoy it. If I sold just one door, It would feel like I had succeeded. For me the reward is not so much the money but the feeling I get when someone appreciates my work enough to purchase it.
If I ever start making enough to support my family doing this type of work, I worry that it would loose its appeal for me.

Jim J.

[Dave Johnson29]

The exhaust did concern me as well. The first thought I had was how much volume could possibly flow through a 4" flex pipe.


James, the exhaust CFM should not be much of an issue. The flow through will be dependent on the inlet size. The amount of smoke and/or fumes coming off the burn point will not be more or less just because the box is bigger.

The bigger table size will have a speed trade-off. There is more mass to move so the speeds will always be lower than a smaller table size. Especially so if the head and Y-axis assemble is moved with an open loop stepper system. That may be why they state 1% speed increments as it may lose steps at higher speeds.

If you are doing 12" x 15" stuff 80%of the time, a smaller table size makes more sense if you can run at the higher speeds.

[James Jaragosky]

James

That's a very interesting machine. I would have two concerns; one it appears to have very limited depth adjustment, perhaps as little as 2 or 3 inches; and two, it has only one 4" exhaust opening. For a machine of that size it seems inadequate to me.

When they say it's for cutting fabric and leather that reinforces the thought that it's depth adjustment is limited.
Mike, I decided to purchase the HX6090SE from Frank at hxlaser. He gave me a very fair price for what I got. The price included delivery to a warehouse in the Indianapolis area; I will not have to deal with customs.
I got a 1.5, 2 and 3 inch len, rotary attachment,chiller,blower, the machine has a motorized table and has downdraft, also included are air assist with the air compressor. the only feature I passed on was the laser pointer.
I know many of these features are stock on a US-built machine, but they are luxuries to me, after running that low end rabbit for the last two years.
I will take delivery in November.
I am particular looking forward to the 23.5 x 35.4 inch table.
O and did I mention air assist, I can now cut! The possibilities are endless.
I may still get that open bed large machine in the spring. I really think there may be a market for cheap doors with a rastered image. Imagine a door from the house to the attached garage with your wife's life size photo and the words, Wipe your feet. I just need to tell the wife I only need Ten more grand for another tool. Ya, that will work:rolleyes:

Thanks to everyone that helped with my decision. even if I failed to respond to your post, I please know, I read it and took what you had to offer to heart.
Regards
JIm J.

[Dave Johnson29]

it appears to have very limited depth adjustment, perhaps as little as 2 or 3 inches

Mike, check the following paragraph in the specs on that website and it mentions a motorized table with 16" of travel.

The 2" or 3" focus is probably built into the lens mount as a fine focus method.

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hey Jim,
Not sure if I got this right but did you buy the new laser for the purpose of rastering 3D images on doors? Not the route I would take especially since you have the CNC and Aspire. Like Dee said you have to show some work to the people who can offer it for you. I would skip the builders and bee line to the interior designers/decorators. They are your best bet IMHO. I am starting to work with some myself and even as we start recovering now the ones with $$$ are always ready to get WHAT THEY WANT.

I did about 90% of a 2" thick Mahogany double door entry that was 8' tall. It had a Stallion rearing up across both doors and a base relief carving of the other side of the horse on the interior side. My customer sold it for over 13K and someone else installed it. I just got Apsire2 and the wildlife collection so I am playing around with it and am going to make my brother something for his Bday. Not sure if it will be a fish, his dog, a deer or maybe all of them in a scene:confused: but I'll have fun doing it.

James, You have a tool that you need to make it earn it keep. Get some 1 1/4" MDF and cut them into door size blanks. Then practice with them. Figure out how long large carvings take and add some time because doors with grain cut different than MDF but it will at least give you some to show. You can also make mini doors. say a 1/3 or 1/4 scale actual solid wood doors. Make a little display unit and then go show and tell. But if you do not know how to price your time and material on these big carved doors, you can price yourself right out of a job or work for free (call backs).

thanks and ...