Home Depot and Dewalt parting ways?

[Mike OMelia]

There is, of course, a long lasting thread in the D&D forum about the DW735 planer being clearanced out at many locations, most seem to be west coast. I spoke to someone at Lowes about this. They said that in a recent meeting with Dewalt sales folks, they were told that Home Depot was being dropped as a Dewalt distributor. Seems Dewalt did not like HD bringing in Makita and Milwaukee. Lowes will soon be the number one account for Dewalt. I guess the implication is they had better not bring in Milwaukee. Anybody else heard anything about this? Is this Lowes guy full of it?

Mike

[Josh Reet]

I've replied to this in the DW735 thread. But here's why I'm skeptical:

-HD is one of the two biggest hardware outlets in the USA. Even with Makita and Milwaukee, HD likely moves a LOT of dewalt stuff. It would not seem to be a good idea for either party to end the relationship.

-If this were really happening, I think we'd be seeing much more stuff being sale or clearanced priced. One clearance planer (and only in the markets where 2 dewalt planers were stocked) doesn't really indicate anything on the scale of ending a dewalt/HD relationship.

-Someone at Lowes giving "insider" news about something going on at HD seems pretty suspicious to me. Particularly when it involves something as big as this decision would be. HD and Dewalt parting ways is one of those things that would have to be decided by a boardroom and by guys who make more money than any of us. I doubt that the news would be all the way down to a few guys at a particular lowes store sales meeting without being everywhere on the internet.

But again, stranger things have happened. I'm just pretty skeptical about this one at this point.

[Bob Haskett]

I've replied to this in the DW735 thread. But here's why I'm skeptical:

-HD is one of the two biggest hardware outlets in the USA. Even with Makita and Milwaukee, HD likely moves a LOT of dewalt stuff. It would not seem to be a good idea for either party to end the relationship.

-If this were really happening, I think we'd be seeing much more stuff being sale or clearanced priced. One clearance planer (and only in the markets where 2 dewalt planers were stocked) doesn't really indicate anything on the scale of ending a dewalt/HD relationship.

-Someone at Lowes giving "insider" news about something going on at HD seems pretty suspicious to me. Particularly when it involves something as big as this decision would be. HD and Dewalt parting ways is one of those things that would have to be decided by a boardroom and by guys who make more money than any of us. I doubt that the news would be all the way down to a few guys at a particular lowes store sales meeting without being everywhere on the internet.

But again, stranger things have happened. I'm just pretty skeptical about this one at this point.

I agree with everything above. I think the Lowes guy was just looking at making an excuse for the insanely low clearance price. I have been wrong plenty before, but like Josh I am just skeptical.

[Jeff Duncan]

One thing to keep in mind is DeWalt is pretty small, their parent company supplies a whole lot more HD merchandise. DeWalt is just one small piece of the pie.

Also Makita and Milwaukee have been sold at HD for the close to 2 decades I've been shopping there...probably more. So I'm guessing he's full of it;)

JeffD

[Alex Leslie]

Clearance prices indicate a model change in many cases. Perhaps DeWalt will be introducing a new model in the West, first.

[glenn bradley]

Is this Lowes guy full of it?

Mike

My Lowe's sells Milwaukee.

[Myk Rian]

HD is clearing out the DW735 planers to make room for the cheaper DW734. That's all there is to it.
How the heck do there rumors get started, and why do people believe everything they hear.

[Steve Mellott]

I spoke to the Dewalt rep in the HD store. He advised me that HD was no longer going to sell the 735 because it was too expensive for most of the HD customers. HD believes the 734 price point is more in line with their customers.

Steve

[Peter Kuhlman]

Still tons of Dewalt at our local HDs but Bosch has almost totally disappeared. Only Bosch products left are the Colt router and a hammer drill on sale.

[Roger Jensen]

Dewalt is owned by Black and Decker, and I imagine neither side would jeopardize that relationship. I agree with the folks saying they are simply doing to align tools (and prices) with the average customer at HD.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Ya know, Steve - this is just dead-on. HD + Lowe's are constantly in a "race to the bottom" against each other. That means you can get OK products at good prices, but you can struggle to get really good products, if you are talking about something that is not a commodity.

Copper plumbing elbows? - Excellent. Plumbing valves from China-Korea-Vietnam? - Uhhh - nope - pass. 2x4 Studs, PT lumber, QuikCrete, deck screws, garden hose, flats of impatiens or begonias - you bet - Excellent source - we have over 1,000 lb of mulch from them in our gardens. Birch ply? - well, depends on what you want to use it for, eh?

So, Dewalt moves from the 735 to the 734 at The Borg to have a lower-price item - OK - fine - good for both Dewalt + HD - it will look good in the Sunday paper advertising supplement. I have spent many many many $$ at both places over the years, and will continue to do so, and I think they do a VERY good job at accomplishing what they want to be, but just because there is a "Dewalt planer" at the store does not automatically mean it is worth your $$ - ya gotta know what you are shopping for.

Whew - sorry 'bout the rant. I learned early, and I learned the hard way - in a lotta cases "you get whatcha pay for". Funny that my Dad was correct all those years ago.

[Carroll Courtney]

I heard that HD has close alot of their stores in the Califoria (big state)area and doing the same in the Indiana area as well.Is there trouble in the big orange house????Carroll

[Jason White]

I would think it's total BS. DeWalt needs Home Depot, not the other way around.

Jason


There is, of course, a long lasting thread in the D&D forum about the DW735 planer being clearanced out at many locations, most seem to be west coast. I spoke to someone at Lowes about this. They said that in a recent meeting with Dewalt sales folks, they were told that Home Depot was being dropped as a Dewalt distributor. Seems Dewalt did not like HD bringing in Makita and Milwaukee. Lowes will soon be the number one account for Dewalt. I guess the implication is they had better not bring in Milwaukee. Anybody else heard anything about this? Is this Lowes guy full of it?

Mike

[Rick Fisher]

Up here in Canada, the power tools companies are trying to steer the retailers..

The Tool stores are pushing the 735 for example, the retail chains are having the 734 pushed on them.

The same thing is happening with Circular saws etc..


Home Depot is a big hitter, but they are also a pain.. Each store my buy 4 or 5 DeWalt 735 Planers.. So DeWalt has freight costs to 1000 shipments.

A tools store will buy 50 -100 DeWalt Planers.. So the freight cost could be way lower..

If Home Depot isnt making the margin they want on the 735, and DeWalt isnt providing the margin, Home Depot will kick that sku out of the system.. in this case, DeWalt probably just let it happen..

A classic example of this is in the building materials.. A Home Depot will sell batt insulation, but nowhere near the volume of the stores selling to the insulation contractor..

[Dave Lehnert]

I heard that HD has close alot of their stores in the Califoria (big state)area and doing the same in the Indiana area as well.Is there trouble in the big orange house????Carroll

I do not think it is a sign of trouble. They are just getting rid of under performing stores. A lot of that going on now.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I can't add to, nor take away from this argument, but look in HD and see what you see that has Delta (other than plumbing fixtures) on it. None, natta, zero. Just a few years back, though HD carried a large assortment of Delta tools. HD would much rather sell you a Ridgid power tool, as they are the exclusive distribitor. Same for Roybi, which Lowes used to sell. Recently, HD aquired the name Avanti Pro. Lowes sells Avanti blades. As a note of irony, I did a job once and the customer specifically said I was not to buy anything for the project from HD. She worked for a large (very large) tool company. HD was one of her accounts. Said her companies profit margine in HD was non existent. This determined her pay. Remember also, that Lowes booted Jet, and most Delta out of their stores for Hatachi. That's where we got those killer deals on Jet contractor's saws for $175:D, and Biesmeyer fences for $80:D. Lowes no longer stocks any "Delta" brand saw blades. Times change, and so do retailers.

[Von Bickley]

The Lowes around central SC no longer carries Makita or Milwaukee. :confused::(:confused:

[Rick Fisher]

I am in the building supply business and have a HD a few miles away. They are told to push the Ridgid and Ryobi lines..

The best way we have found to compete is customer service. Treat people like people, introduce yourself, shake there hand. We train our staff to remember names, smile.. etc..

Price wise, HD isnt that cheap anymore.. They went through a change and are all about margin. They are still cheap on a select group of products, but on the small stuff, they do really well.

If we advertise a cheaper price, they will often beat it by 10%, but wont just automatically lower there retail anymore.. Those days are over.

When a Home Depot opens, stores like mine have to lower there price on about 500 items, then raise prices on about 3000 items.. The smaller stuff.. otherwise, we are too cheap.

HD are smart guys..

Since they opened, 4 -5 years ago, our net gross margins at year-end have actually risen. Its the exact opposite of what you would think.

[Vic Damone]

I am in the building supply business and have a HD a few miles away. They are told to push the Ridgid and Ryobi lines..

The best way we have found to compete is customer service. Treat people like people, introduce yourself, shake there hand. We train our staff to remember names, smile.. etc..

Price wise, HD isnt that cheap anymore.. They went through a change and are all about margin. They are still cheap on a select group of products, but on the small stuff, they do really well.

If we advertise a cheaper price, they will often beat it by 10%, but wont just automatically lower there retail anymore.. Those days are over.

When a Home Depot opens, stores like mine have to lower there price on about 500 items, then raise prices on about 3000 items.. The smaller stuff.. otherwise, we are too cheap.

HD are smart guys..

Since they opened, 4 -5 years ago, our net gross margins at year-end have actually risen. Its the exact opposite of what you would think.

Mr. Fisher, Thank you so much for your candid and knowledgeable response. Explaining Home Despits marketing practices will hopefully make smarter shoppers out of many here who assume they're getting a good price for their home and garden supplies.

I wish you the best for your continued success, it's truly refreshing to hear.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The best way we have found to compete is customer service. Treat people like people, introduce yourself, shake there hand. We train our staff to remember names, smile.. etc..


You bet its the best way - I go to HD only for stuff I know isn't at the Ace Hdwre 3 blocks from my house - Ace guys all know me by sight, they are friendly, and I'm willing to pay a few points extra if it comes to that, just for the service. Good for you guys - you have it figured out!!

[Rod Sheridan]

Whew - sorry 'bout the rant. I learned early, and I learned the hard way - in a lotta cases "you get whatcha pay for". Funny that my Dad was correct all those years ago.

Kent, I agree, our parents were either taught, or learned that.

To our parents "cheap" meant exactly that, inferior.

My parents spent a substantial amount of their money on durable goods that would last a very long time, no disposable consumer culture for them.

My father bought Klein pliers, nothing else, as he couldn't afford cheap tools. You saved your money until you had enough to buy a high quality object that lasted your lifetime.

We're in a race to the bottom, and the retailers of course offer what we ask for.

Fortunately good stuff is still available, it's just not available from Borg's, that's not their target market.

Regards, Rod.

[Curt Harms]

[QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;1224231
We're in a race to the bottom, and the retailers of course offer what we ask for.

Fortunately good stuff is still available, it's just not available from Borg's, that's not their target market.

Regards, Rod.[/QUOTE]

Very true Rod. But in suburbia, many who haven't been exposed to higher quality goods consider "the Depot" the be-all end-all. After all, the "experts" on HGTV or DIY shop there.:rolleyes:.

[Rod Sheridan]

Very true Rod. But in suburbia, many who haven't been exposed to higher quality goods consider "the Depot" the be-all end-all. After all, the "experts" on HGTV or DIY shop there.:rolleyes:.


Good point Curt..............I keep forgetting that HGTV is the Holy Grail......:rolleyes:............Rod.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.....in suburbia, many who haven't been exposed to higher quality goods consider "the Depot" the be-all end-all. After all, the "experts" on HGTV or DIY shop there.:rolleyes:.

heh-heh-heh - think about that other thread that asked why would you want to pay that $$ for Starrett? I have given away combo squares, rules, a benchtop hollow chisel mortiser, a 6" jointer, a palm sander, and I don't know what else. When I first got into the sawdust hobby, I recall looking at Starrett and thinking "you must be kidding". Nope - they weren't, and they were right.

I still go to HD - I know what I am getting, and I get what I pay for. But - I don't buy anything with a motor on it, and I don't buy anything that measures or makes shavings

[Brad Townsend]

I do not think it is a sign of trouble. They are just getting rid of under performing stores. A lot of that going on now.
Too bad they didn't get rid of their under performing CEO a lot sooner. Then he would have had more time to kill off Chrysler.:D

[Michael Schwartz]

I live in a somewhat rural area in central vermont We have 4 local hardware stores, all small and independent however I still find myself driving 110 miles round trip to the borg or Lowe's almost weekly. I try to buy locally but often either there prices are so ridiculous its worth spending the money on gas, or they don't have what I need.

I find this interesting, I have bought all my dewalt tools from Home Depot, including a 735 planer the other day. I will have to keep an eye out for clearance if these rumors are true. But I have easily spent $1500.00 at the borg on dewalt products.

[Rick Fisher]

Michael. What you are describing is the death of the independant Building supply store.

Up in Canuckistan, being an independant is already a thing of the past. You need a buying group to make a go of it. Even with a buying group, its tough to stay on top of how fast things change, and buying groups make mistakes..

The biggest winfall for Lowes and Home Depot is this recession.. Over 1000 competitors have already fallen away.. when this mess ends, the Borg's will have it better than they ever did before..

I have customers who drop by my house on the weekend.. knock on my door to get some Cedar resawn, or borrow my planer.. In my mind, so long as they are doing that, I will be okay.. :)

[Larry Edgerton]

I for one would love it if both Dewalt and Home Depot disappeared. As a professional, they suck. I don't have time to train every minimum wage employee every time I need something they do not know about, and I do not want to walk 5 miles finding what I want. I hate how they have screwed up the market, and if you think they are cheaper on a whole project that a local yard you are living an illusion. On a whole house they are 20% higher every time than my local yard, and I know this as people have made me get a price quote several times from the Borg, just because they believe the illusion.

My local supplier, Preston Feather Lumber, is making some good moves to be in a competitive position, but they are still fighting the fairy tale that the Borg has created that they are less expensive. Its a homeowner hardware from hell, staffed by people that do not know the business or the concequences of their poor recommendations as the only training they get is from manufacturers who lie, always, and the Borg itself which is only interested in the bottom line, not a satisfied and therefore repeat customer.

The Borg, and in no small way Dewalt have brought down the prices of tools, but at the same time brought down the quality to the point where it is very hard to find what I would consider a professional quality tool. When Dewalt bought Porter Cable it was a sad day, because as the whores of the tool market they are they brought Porter cable down to their level and discontinued most of the Pro quality tools, so now PC is just another crap tool in the Borgs clutches.

Support your local businesses if you have any left, because when the Borg is all that is left you are screwed.

Rick, I know your pain from the friends I have made at Preston Feather, and I wish you only the best. Its a tough fight, but I will say as a professional builder you provide a necessary service that the Borg can not provide.

[Darrell Bade]

I have to chime in after the last couple of comments

Was finisheing my basement this spring. Bought the first 38 studs from Lowes. Hand picked and all were straight. Took 8 back because by the next day they were too twisted to use. Guess they do not dry these things right. Went to a lumber yard and bought the next 100 studs. Took me 3 weeks to burn through them and only 3 twisted to a point I had to be careful where I used them. When hanging drywall some of the Lowes studs the screw would not tighten, just spin in the soft wood. Screws in lumber yard wood drove very hard and tightened up. THE KICKER - THE STUDS WERE A FEW PENNIES LESS AT THE LUMBER YARD THAN AT LOWES.

The BORGs are really losing my business for a lot of stuff.

By the way, the Lowes by me no longer carries Milwaulkee tools. I bought a new Milwaulkee 18v Li-ion drill a few weeks ago at the local lumber yard, cheaper than Home Depot had them for and the same price as Amazon.

[Chris Harry]

A local lumber yard had been around for a long time (80 yrs or something) and was put out of business a few months ago. Why? The Home Depot across the street.

When I had to build extension jambs for 18 replacement windows I started with lumber at HD. For the heck of it I tried that lumberyard, and go figure: the wood was cheaper AND it came pre-primed (try finding a pre-primed pine 1x4 at HD!) I couldnt believe it, but once I saw that I only bought lumber at that lumber yard. They even cut it down for me into more manageable lengths with their RAS.

One of the workers was telling me the company was hurting because people just didnt think they would get a better deal anywhere other than HD/Lowes. Here we are 3 yrs after that and they are out of business.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

PSsssst. Guys.....Don't tell my wife I suggested this.......You really need to shop around. Please don't tell my wife I said that.....


I'm waiting for new carpeting to be installed in a bathroom I just finished remodeling. I got a better quality shower door for the tub/shower from a local glass company than I could have gotten at the local HD and it was installed for the same I price I would have to bought it and installed it myself.

It's called shopping.

Sometimes my local lumberyard is cheaper and better quality. Sometimes it is not. The local homebuilding economy has been such that the local lumberyard has been closing on Saturdays and it has never be open on Sundays. The local HD is open on weekends. Do-it-yourselfer amateurs are kinda forced to shop HD on weekends.

Please don't tell my wife I used or even know that four letter word "shop".:rolleyes:

[Chris Harry]

What are you talking about?

You said the word shop, like "Im going to be building something in my shop".

I dont see a problem there :)

[Larry Edgerton]

Another reason that I use Preston Feather....

A few years ago I started a house for a crook. He let me get the roof on and said he was not going to pay. He was into me for $57K. He went on to screw 6 contractors until he had his house done, always settling and paying 2/3, being as lawyers always get a third, everyone settled including myself.

I called Preston and they sent two guys and a truck with a piggyback forklift on a Sunday to help me take all of the materials that were not nailed down. They gave me full price credit even if the material was dirty, did not charge me for the Sunday help, and the owner called me and said I could have all the time I wanted to pay the balance if needed. I sold my sports car and paid it, but I will not forget that they were just as loyal to me as I am to them.

Try that at a Home Depot.............

[Brad Townsend]

I dispute the notion that a small local can't compete with a big box. In the closest city to me of any size, Rockford, IL, there are SIX home centers - Two HDs, two Lowe's and two Menards - for a population of under 200k. When you can't find what you are looking for in one of these retail giants, the helpful sales people will send you to Nicholson Hardware, a locally-owned service-oriented store, inconveniently located in a retail wasteland downtown. When you go there, you find the place crawling with contractors and trades people for whom time is money and don't have time to wander around a big box and ultimately not find what they need. Their hardware and tool selection far exceeds what any home center can stock and they don't mess with cheap homeowner grade power tools. (You won't find a Black & Decker display.) They seem to be doing very well.

The average home center has a broad array of inventory, but is very limited in the depth they offer within a category. (They have to save room for the geraniums and patio furniture.) If a local is willing to focus on a specific area and do it better than the home center, they CAN make it work.

[John Pratt]

I for one would love it if both Dewalt and Home Depot disappeared. As a professional, they suck. I don't have time to train every minimum wage employee every time I need something they do not know about, and I do not want to walk 5 miles finding what I want. I hate how they have screwed up the market, and if you think they are cheaper on a whole project that a local yard you are living an illusion. On a whole house they are 20% higher every time than my local yard, and I know this as people have made me get a price quote several times from the Borg, just because they believe the illusion....

We have HD and Lowes right next door to each other and then two separate lumber yards/home centers spread through town. The problem with the Lumber yard and home center is that it is a great price for the professional builder, but not the average consumer. They offer good discounts to the builder through builder/contractor accounts. The average person in town is not willing to spend 25% more for a tool or lumber at the lumber yard or home center. This is how they make up the cost difference they give to contractors. I get the contractors discount for purchases for my Government shop, but when I need something for the house or my personal shop, I shop around.



I'm waiting for new carpeting to be installed in a bathroom I just finished remodeling.
:rolleyes:

Carpeting in a bathroom? I always thought moisture was an issue to have it installed in a bathroom.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John.....I'm married for 41 years. I don't have an option on the carpeting in the bathroom. I hope you understand.

[Cary Falk]

It's called researching.

:rolleyes:


Fixed it for you. :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I suppose we could call it "scouting" too Cary!:rolleyes:

[Kent A Bathurst]

Carpeting in a bathroom? I always thought moisture was an issue to have it installed in a bathroom.


Probably depends on how good you aim is!! :)

[Phillip Marsh]

Nothing really to do with DeWalt but with the buyer at Home Depot. Home Depot carries about 20 models of drills and hammer drills and DeWalt has more than 20 models by themselves. With Home Depot selling Ridgid, Ryobi, Bosch, Makita, and Milwaukee, there is not really any room for DeWalt as well. Home Depot was pushing Ryobi with big end of aisle displays and giving them 40-50% of the floor space in their stores. Now it appears that space is going to Ridgid which is really a price line that sits above Ryobi and below DeWalt/Makita/Milwaukee.

The real problem with the Lowes and Home Depot buyers is that they decide what people get to buy. If you want a bi-metal hole saw in sizes 5" or smaller you are set. If you want a modern Blue Boar Universal tungsten carbide tipped hole cutter or even a high speed steel Milwaukee Big Hawg hole cutter you have to go to an internet store.

We have bought a Milwaukee M18 and a DeWalt DCD970 lithium powered hammer drills in the past couple months and both had to be ordered on the internet as neither were in stock at the 3 Home Depot and single Lowes in our area. When I went to Home Depot my best choice for a hammer drill was a Ridgid model that as $50 cheaper but not as good as the M18 or the DCD970 hammer drills and I would rather pay the extra money and get the best tool for the job.

Home Depot has also switched to carrying only the Ridgid bi-metal hole saws which are very expensive for what you get which is namely an old fashioned high speed steel piece of saw blade welded into a circle. The most expensive tool you can buy in terms of holes per hour or holes per dollar spent on the tool. I spend 50% more for a TCT hole cutter that lasts 10-20 times as long and cuts holes in 1/10 the time. But I am not likely to find a TCT hole cutter at Home Depot or Lowes in my lifetime.

[Bill Huber]

Probably depends on how good you aim is!! :)


Don't say Depends to an old person.....:D:D

[Darrell Bade]

[QUOTE=John Pratt;1225008]We have HD and Lowes right next door to each other and then two separate lumber yards/home centers spread through town. The problem with the Lumber yard and home center is that it is a great price for the professional builder, but not the average consumer. They offer good discounts to the builder through builder/contractor accounts. The average person in town is not willing to spend 25% more for a tool or lumber at the lumber yard or home center. This is how they make up the cost difference they give to contractors. I get the contractors discount for purchases for my Government shop, but when I need something for the house or my personal shop, I shop around.

I agree. The local lumber yard in my area has started giving contractor price to everyone. That is only fair in my opinion. If they can sell it to contractors to put on my house they should be able to sell it to me for the same price to put on my house.

[Rob Fisher]

I agree. The local lumber yard in my area has started giving contractor price to everyone. That is only fair in my opinion. If they can sell it to contractors to put on my house they should be able to sell it to me for the same price to put on my house.


Most of the time the contractor price has more to do with volume of sales rather than the "type" of person buying the supplies. The BORG's usually will give you a discount if you are purchasing enough.

That said I have worked at HD and I still try to plan ahead and buy as much as I can from the local lumber yards. Generally they have nicer and considerably more knowledgeable sales staff too.

Rob

[Darrell Bade]

Most of the time the contractor price has more to do with volume of sales rather than the "type" of person buying the supplies. The BORG's usually will give you a discount if you are purchasing enough.

Rob

That was what I was thinking without saying it very well. The contractor is volume. But the other way to look at running a business is if my prices are good, even though the homeowner buys less at a time if I now have 30 homeowners coming to my store because my prices are competitive an I am knowlegable. I am going to turn a lot more volume than if my prices are only competitive to a contractor and I only have 3 homeowners buying from me.