Dumb crosscutting question

[scott vroom]

I'm a beginner woodworker and have a basic (dumb) question. Let's say I'm building a 5' tall dresser 20" deep. After ripping the stock to 20" wide, how do I cross-cut to 60" long? Based on other posts it seems like I'm going to need some sort of slider or sled on my table saw. I have a limited budget and have narrowed my TS search tom either Grizzly G0690 or G0691. Should I be looking at a much more expensive sliding saw?

Thanks-

[Rob Cunningham]

A crosscut sled should work fine. There are many posts and magazine articles on how to make one. Take you time and make sure it's accurate.

[Darius Ferlas]

You could build a crosscut sled like one described in this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=66984).
If you continue your woodworking hobby you'll be glad you did.

[scott vroom]

I should have mentioned that I'm not interested in making my own sled at this point. Are there after-market sleds that I could purchase?

Thanks-

[Darius Ferlas]

Yes (http://www.amazon.com/Incra-MITER5000-Miter-Table-Telescoping/dp/B0002ZO7A2), there are after market sleds.

[Brian Kent]

I am extremely happy with the Incra 5000. While the sliding table is a lot less than 5', it has a hold down that makes it work:

http://www.amazon.com/Incra-MITER5000-Miter-Table-Telescoping/dp/B0002ZO7A2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1254156092&sr=8-1

Brian

I just checked and saw that the fence extension goes to 64".

[Mike Cruz]

Does Incra (or anyone else for that matter) make hardware to use to MAKE your own sled? Or do they just offer the sled (like in the link you guys provided)?

[Prashun Patel]

Even if you had a sled, getting it aligned and engaged on a piece 20" wide can be a tad tricky.

If it were me, I'd use a circular saw with a guide to cut something this large.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Trimming something 5'......60 inches long is tough even with a cross cut sled.

I'd use a circular saw and a straight edge. Layout the cut with an accurate square. Clamp a straight edge to the panel and then use the straight edge to guide the circular saw.

Remember to offset the straight edge by the distance the blade is offset from the edge of the saw base.

[Jerome Hanby]

The have all kinds of jig making stuff. Woodcraft caries it. The Incra site has some projects (tenoning jig leaps to mind) using their hardware system,


Does Incra (or anyone else for that matter) make hardware to use to MAKE your own sled? Or do they just offer the sled (like in the link you guys provided)?

[Jerome Hanby]

Ditto on using a guide

[Rob Young]

+1 for the circular saw and cross-cut guide.

A circular saw and cross-cut guide would be safer and probably easier. Your workpiece would be more fully supported and only the off-cut (plus a little bit) would need to hang off the workbench/horses.

[Stephen Edwards]

Does Incra (or anyone else for that matter) make hardware to use to MAKE your own sled? Or do they just offer the sled (like in the link you guys provided)?

Yes, Rockler, MLCS, Woodcraft, etc. all sell the hardware to make your own crosscut sled, and many other jigs and fixtures, too.

While I agree that it's a good idea to use a circular saw and a square guide to make this cut, it can also be done on a very basic and super simple shop built crosscut sled that's made for 90 degree cuts. I can cut 22+" inches wide on mine. Believe me my sled ain't much to look at, either!

If I were gonna cut a piece 60" long on my sled I'd be sure to clamp the piece of stock to the sled fence with a 24" quick grip clamp.

Another suggestion for building your own sled is to build an adjustment into the fence so that if it ever gets out of kilter you can readjust it to a perfect 90 degrees.

[Rod Sheridan]

Scott, a sled works, a slider works so much better.

That said a smaller saw has about 30" to the right of the blade, no issues whatever with supporting a 60" long piece.

As to the width, you'll have approximately 12" in front of the blade, which means that only 8" will be overhanging the front of your table saw.

No problem for a sled, however as I've said previously, I own a $4K cabinet saw, and it's getting replaced by a Hammer B3 sliding saw.

Everything you wind up doing in some mickey mouse way on a standard saw, is done far more accurately and safer with a slider.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. All you need is a single runner "panel squaring" type sled, nothing more than a piece of Baltic birch plywood, a hardwood runner and a wood fence.

[Rick Moyer]

P.S. All you need is a single runner "panel squaring" type sled, nothing more than a piece of Baltic birch plywood, a hardwood runner and a wood fence.
That's what I would suggest for this pc.

[David G Baker]

I agree with what Ken F wrote, especially if you are not able to afford the money or time to buy or make your own. I am a firm believer in keeping things simple (when I can force myself to do so). If a large number of cuts are needed then I would go for the sled or slider.

[Nathan Callender]

I'd personally go with the circular saw and saw guide. You can make a very inexpensive circular saw guide that will align perfectly to a line you mark on the plywood, and it's not very hard to make. Do a youtube search to see what I'm talking about. The nice thing is that you can use the same guide to break down the plywood sheets as well. I've got 2ft and 6ft guides and that takes care of everything I need (although, I rip the sheets lengthwise on the table saw, so if you don't feel like wrestling a sheet on the TS, go for a 8ft version).

[Harold Shay]

I have a Dubby cross cutting RT and left sleds and just finished cross cutting some 21 wide by 67 long on my unisaw with a 52 inch fence. I used the RT sled and I have a `1/2 in piece of ply wood to put out on the outer end to make the peice level. I clamped the peice to the sled bar cut it off. It worked well.
link to dubby sled http://www.in-lineindustries.com/single_dubby.html

Harold

[Jason White]

Just starting out? Try a circular saw with a 40-tooth blade and a straight-edge or shooting board. Then decide whether you need to make a jig or buy an expensive tool.

Jason


I'm a beginner woodworker and have a basic (dumb) question. Let's say I'm building a 5' tall dresser 20" deep. After ripping the stock to 20" wide, how do I cross-cut to 60" long? Based on other posts it seems like I'm going to need some sort of slider or sled on my table saw. I have a limited budget and have narrowed my TS search tom either Grizzly G0690 or G0691. Should I be looking at a much more expensive sliding saw?

Thanks-

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
For anything that wide,, I just reach for the Festool TS55EQ.

Somewhat costly up front, but worth every penny in the long haul & a heck of a lot cheaper than a slider.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm sensing that you don't want to invest time making any jigs for this, but this thing has come in very handy for me:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Build/CircCrossCut.html

Mine's modified to handle stock up to 24" wide. I used aluminum angle channels for the rail for the circular saw base. I use it on almost every shelving project; it's 'precise enough'.

[John Thompson]

Here's my solution... cheap and easy to make. I built this one Saturday morning in about an hour an a half for less than $10 while waiting for a glue-up to dry. I saw the sled on a Blog at FWW Woodworking life by Rob Parcaro. As Rod mentioned.. simply a piece of 1/2" MDF.. two ripped pieces of UHMW to 3/8" x 3/4" and a piece of scrap QSWO.

But.. this sled does not have the fence in the rear. The fence is located in the Front. And it is two separate pieces. Sled left is the main carrier and sled left is to avoid drop off. That also allows zero clearance which is helpful with an overhead dust collector.

I used this sled Sunday to cross-cut a 22" wide table top after glue-up. I tested it with a sheet of ply and I was able to comfortably cross-cut a 30" wide piece as my 5 HP saw has a 28" wide table. If you don't use any over-head guards as I do.. you could add two toggle clamps on the front fence to avoid leaning over the table on a piece that wide. I will probably do so today just for fun..

So.. how long to build? Not long.. How cheap to build? Very cheap. How does it work.. just like a small sliding table but with a several thousand dollars savings. :)

Good luck...

[Stephen Edwards]

Here's my solution...

But.. this sled does not have the fence in the rear. The fence is located in the Front......

So.. how long to build? Not long.. How cheap to build? Very cheap. How does it work.. just like a small sliding table but with a several thousand dollars savings. :)

Good luck...

Hey Sarge, I like your sled. It's only a bit more elaborate than mine! You are so right, these simple sleds work great.

One question, please: What's the advantage of having the fence at the front of the sled? Or, it is just a personal preference? Thanks again.

Best Wishes,

[Jerome Hanby]

Hey Sarge, I like your sled. It's only a bit more elaborate than mine! You are so right, these simple sleds work great.

One question, please: What's the advantage of having the fence at the front of the sled? Or, it is just a personal preference? Thanks again.

Best Wishes,

I may be able to answer that. If the fence is in the back you have to pull it nearly off the front of the table saw to start cutting wider pieces. In the front, you can have the table from the blade to the front edge of the saw to support the sled. On those really wide pieces, you may be able to make half the cut, then flip the material top to bottom and finish running it and avoid running off the back of the saw.

[Karl Brogger]

What the hell is wrong with you people? A sled?! a guide setup for a circular saw?! Can you screw around, and make life any harder?



Measure and mark at 60" (If thats the size piece you need)
Measure from the opposite side of material back to your mark. (Should be around 36-1/2")
Subtract an 1/8" from the second measurement.
Set fence at second measurement.
Cut the piece.

[Rod Sheridan]

What the hell is wrong with you people? A sled?! a guide setup for a circular saw?! Can you screw around, and make life any harder?



Measure and mark at 60" (If thats the size piece you need)
Measure from the opposite side of material back to your mark. (Should be around 36-1/2")
Subtract an 1/8" from the second measurement.
Set fence at second measurement.
Cut the piece.
That's great Karl, if the sheet of plywood is square to begin with, most are not.

A rip fence cuts objects parallel, not square, so if you start out with a slightly not square sheet, you get a parallelogram out, not a rectangle.

A sliding saw, or a cabinet saw with sled will result in right angle cuts.

regards, Rod

[Prashun Patel]

What the hell is wrong with you people? ... Cut the piece.

I gotta admit, I 'cross-rip' pieces like this sometimes. I did it once on a 72" x 16" x 1/4" piece of ply, (cutting it to 2x36" pieces). It kicked on me. Ironically, it was the cut-off side that did it. I was so concentrating on keeping the fence side true, I wasn't able to keep the left side true. Fortunately, the blade only gouged the cutoff piece. But the 'bang' was enough to scare me pretty bad.

[John Thompson]

Hey Sarge, I like your sled. It's only a bit more elaborate than mine! You are so right, these simple sleds work great.

One question, please: What's the advantage of having the fence at the front of the sled? Or, it is just a personal preference? Thanks again.

Best Wishes,

I believe Jerome has you covered on "why" for the most part. On wide pieces with a standard rear fence sled.. you generally have only 12"-14" (depending on your TS) table support in front of blade. So.. what happens when you have a 22" or even wider piece to cut? You are pulling the sled back off the table to the point you have very little of it on the table.

So.. you either have extreme balance in holding it or you build something to give it additional support which protrudes in front of the saw. With a Fence Forward the cut begins with the forward portion of the sled having 12"-14" table support but.... you are holding the stock DOWN and pushing forward on the fence. No additional support if required and nothing to obstruct you.

Notice I have an extension on the rear of my saw.. The sled runner goes from table to a slot I cut in the extension which allows the rear of sled to go all the way to the rear of saw table. My sled is 22" wide and I hung 10" off the rear to test a cut. Excellent results and with proper support he entire way.

If you are doing only narrow pieces the rear fence works fine. You can do wider if you add support to the front of saw but without it I feel things get a bit squirrely at least and I respest the 5 HP on my saw. You could flip it over as I had been doing on my SCMS to get 28" but.. perfect alignment is not as easy as just flipping it over. More than like there will be a ridge line where the two cuts meet.

With a ridge line you have to take it out if the end grain is exposed as on open end grain table tops as I build often. I have to cut a little proud (long) and take it to my twin screw vise to take the extra off with a block plane. The ability to make ONE precise sever on my forward fence sled up to 30" using my Super General 30* degree side grind blade is a major plus for me as it eliminates the use of the block plane or a guide and a pattern bit to take off 1 mm or so to get a baby butt smooth end grain showing end.

I have never used a sled until this week as the standard type just wouldn't do the widths I handle often. I saw this one in a Blog and the reason I didn't bother with a sled was erased as it does what I need it to do. I use one of my standard Incra gauges on narrower pieces but this has add much versatility to my work when that wide piece shows up and it shows up often at my shop. It saves me time and block plane iron sharpening as end grain is tough stuff.

Regards...

[John Thompson]

[QUOTE=Karl Brogger;1224940]What the hell is wrong with you people? A sled?! a guide setup for a circular saw?! Can you screw around, and make life any harder?


Years ago.. I did it your way Karl. It took five good gut kicks with stock coming off that saw to awaken me that there might be a better and safer way. And by golly... I found out there is! What took me so long to realize it I still question but... that's life isn't it?

Everyone is entitled to work as they see fit and I respect that... I don't consider anything wrong with them if they choose an alternative approach that is different than mine.

So... what's wrong with us?... Absolutely nothing IMO!

[scott vroom]

This thread seems to have gotten off track. Let me clarify the problem statement: I have a board 3/4" thick, 20" wide, 72" long. I want to shorten the board from 72" to 60". Somehow the thread migrated to a discussion on how to cut plywood.

I believe I have my answer. My choices are to either:

1) build or purchase an aftermarket sled or slider to use on my existing
cabinet saw

2) use a circular saw and guide

3) buy a slider saw (out of the question given my limited space and
budget)

Unless I've overlooked other solutions, I have my answer. Thanks to all
for your comments.

[Brian Kincaid]

Check out the 'bridge' from eurekazone. it's a circular saw guide set up to make repeated cuts similar to what you would try to do on a sliding table saw if you had the ca(sh)pacity.

I built my own using their rail system and a craigslist table saw fence.

I kept running into cuts like this and was frustrated by the mark, clamp the guide, cut, ...

Brian

[Brian Kent]

I believe I have my answer. My choices are to either:

1) build or purchase an aftermarket sled or slider to use on my existing
cabinet saw

2) use a circular saw and guide

3) buy a slider saw (out of the question given my limited space and
budget)

Unless I've overlooked other solutions, I have my answer. Thanks to all
for your comments.

Scott, what part of the country are you living in? I have a couple of leads on used sliders in Southern California.

Brian Kent

[Stephen Edwards]

I may be able to answer that. If the fence is in the back you have to pull it nearly off the front of the table saw to start cutting wider pieces. In the front, you can have the table from the blade to the front edge of the saw to support the sled. On those really wide pieces, you may be able to make half the cut, then flip the material top to bottom and finish running it and avoid running off the back of the saw.

Thanks Jerome. Makes sense.

[Stephen Edwards]

I believe Jerome has you covered on "why" for the most part. On wide pieces with a standard rear fence sled.. you generally have only 12"-14" (depending on your TS) table support in front of blade. So.. what happens when you have a 22" or even wider piece to cut? You are pulling the sled back off the table to the point you have very little of it on the table.

So.. you either have extreme balance in holding it or you build something to give it additional support which protrudes in front of the saw. With a Fence Forward the cut begins with the forward portion of the sled having 12"-14" table support but.... you are holding the stock DOWN and pushing forward on the fence. No additional support if required and nothing to obstruct you.

Notice I have an extension on the rear of my saw.. The sled runner goes from table to a slot I cut in the extension which allows the rear of sled to go all the way to the rear of saw table. My sled is 22" wide and I hung 10" off the rear to test a cut. Excellent results and with proper support he entire way.

If you are doing only narrow pieces the rear fence works fine. You can do wider if you add support to the front of saw but without it I feel things get a bit squirrely at least and I respest the 5 HP on my saw. You could flip it over as I had been doing on my SCMS to get 28" but.. perfect alignment is not as easy as just flipping it over. More than like there will be a ridge line where the two cuts meet.

With a ridge line you have to take it out if the end grain is exposed as on open end grain table tops as I build often. I have to cut a little proud (long) and take it to my twin screw vise to take the extra off with a block plane. The ability to make ONE precise sever on my forward fence sled up to 30" using my Super General 30* degree side grind blade is a major plus for me as it eliminates the use of the block plane or a guide and a pattern bit to take off 1 mm or so to get a baby butt smooth end grain showing end.

I have never used a sled until this week as the standard type just wouldn't do the widths I handle often. I saw this one in a Blog and the reason I didn't bother with a sled was erased as it does what I need it to do. I use one of my standard Incra gauges on narrower pieces but this has add much versatility to my work when that wide piece shows up and it shows up often at my shop. It saves me time and block plane iron sharpening as end grain is tough stuff.

Regards...

Thanks for the detailed reply. I think I'll make another one with the fence set up like yours. I sure have enjoyed using the simple one that already have. Makes life much easier and dead on 90 every time. I can understand how having the fence on the opposite side of the sled would work better with wider stock.

[scott vroom]

Scott, what part of the country are you living in? I have a couple of leads on used sliders in Southern California.

Brian Kent


Brian, I live in Nor Cal (Mountain View).

[Danny Thompson]

I strongly recommend you use the straight edge (mdf, plywood, a plumbers's level, whatever) and circular saw option.

A 20-in wide board 6 ft long is a lot to handle on a crosscut sled, particularly for an inexperienced woodworker. The hard part, given the weight and length of the board, even with Sarge's setup, with all that friction, is keeping the board from rotating through the cut. The slightest rotation will result in a botched cut and, either, kickback or an instinctive reaction that results in a cut hand.

If you choose to go the crosscut sled route, whatever you do, do not get any assistance from another person during the cut. There is no way that person will push at the same rate as you.

Best of luck.

[John Thompson]

I strongly recommend you use the straight edge (mdf, plywood, a plumbers's level, whatever) and circular saw option.

A 20-in wide board 6 ft long is a lot to handle on a crosscut sled, particularly for an inexperienced woodworker. The hard part, given the weight and length of the board, even with Sarge's setup, with all that friction, is keeping the board from rotating through the cut. The slightest rotation will result in a botched cut and, either, kickback or an instinctive reaction that results in a cut hand.

If you choose to go the crosscut sled route, whatever you do, do not get any assistance from another person during the cut. There is no way that person will push at the same rate as you.

Best of luck.

You make two good points that should be notable. I agree with you on table drag and that must be accounted for. Putting wax on tops is for more than just prevention of rust. A slick extention talbe is better than an un-finished one for the same reason.

And I strongly agree with you on do it without the aid of an assistant. Here's a case of I wouldn't trust my mother to be totally in sync with me. I learned the hard way years ago ripping long stock. I still rip 12' - 14' on occassional rip for hires but.. I have proper extentions front and rear.. crown guard.. and proper support left of blade with fence on right to do support work. Two people simply cannot co-ordinate their actions into one IMO.

Again great points to bring up as you need to be aware of both as I see it.

Regards...

[Stephen Edwards]

Scott, in the event that no one else may have said this already in this thread, I want to tell you that there's no such thing as a "dumb question" when you're asking for advice on how to do something, anything, that you don't know how to do or aren't sure of the safest way to do it. In fact, it's a sign of intelligence, IMO, when someone asks.

After all, that is one of the main benefits of a forum such as SMC.

[Karl Brogger]

Ok, you caught me in the morning, I'm a bit edgy, and a some what of a jerk in the morning.:rolleyes:

Sheet stock is just about always square enough 99% of the time. You gotta remember that its something made out of wood, not parts for the space shuttle, an atom smasher, or whatever...

The absolute biggest thing about crosscutting on a table saw, is you have to keep the material moving. Quickly preferably. The biggest mistake I see people making is slowing down for that last little bit, that is the worst point to do so. I've done it this way, every single day, for ten years. I'd definetly preffer to do it on a panel saw, but I don't have the room for one anymore.