New/0ld saws (gloat) and first sharpenings

[jim hedgpeth]

Got two new saws this week, a Stanley 358 w/ Canadian made Disston Miter saw 28x5, and a "Warranted Superior" 10" back saw I understand is probably a unmarked Disston #4.

I tried my hand at sharpening both, decided to resharpen the miter saw a second time to get it to my satisfaction (for now). They turned out pretty good, nice even teeth, and most important, cut well. I am sure I will look back later and think how much better I could have done this first time around, but that's why practice is so important.

Anyone thinking of sharpening their own saws, go for it, its not as hard as one thinks. Print this as a reference and keep it close when you sharpen your first and you will be well on your way.
http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=sawcare&right=/library/primer/sharp.html

They both cut very sweet, although the miter is a bit slower than I expected. I bet it will cut faster as I get better at sharpening, I am sure it could be sharpened better. It does slice through with VERY smooth strokes though. I am so used to handsaws that chatter, skip and bind, these are a whole new class of saws to me.

As for the miter box, its a tank, rock solid. When it locks in place, that's it , it's not budging, no wiggle at all. I haven't checked every angle yet, but 45* and 90* are both dead on.

The dovetail saw on the other hand is blazing fast, down to the back in just a few strokes. It started out hard to start, but is getting better. I have made a few changes to my technique that help as well. I noticed this one is very picky about stoning the sides evenly after sharpening. Make sure to use the same # of light even strokes on both sides. I did 2 on both sides, but slipped on the first side because I didn't have a good grip on the stone. It showed right away in the test cut. Gave it another light swipe on that side and perfect. Follows a line like a train on rails. I am still surprised how fast it cuts since its 14tpi. It leaves a little rougher finish than the miter saw but fine enough for anything that is not going to show. I don't plan to disassemble any joints to show off how smooth the insides are, LOL.

Since I know "No pics, it didn't happen" here you go.

Later,
Jim

[Jeff Skory]

Very cool Jim. I have a few files on their way to me and will be going through the same exercise with an old backsaw that looks very much like yours and a couple of full size saws. I'm anxious to get started.

[Jim Koepke]

Got two new saws this week, a Stanley 358 w/ Canadian made Disston Miter saw 28x5, and a "Warranted Superior" 10" back saw I understand is probably a unmarked Disston #4.

I tried my hand at sharpening both, decided to resharpen the miter saw a second time to get it to my satisfaction (for now). They turned out pretty good, nice even teeth, and most important, cut well. I am sure I will look back later and think how much better I could have done this first time around, but that's why practice is so important.

Anyone thinking of sharpening their own saws, go for it, its not as hard as one thinks. Print this as a reference and keep it close when you sharpen your first and you will be well on your way.
http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=sawcare&right=/library/primer/sharp.html

Later,
Jim

Nice looking saws. I was also working on one of my old saw gloats this weekend. This is the first saw of mine to cut all new teeth. Well, on the one side. It is also my only saw other than a pull saw that has two cutting edges. Didn't get them perfect, but it cuts pretty good. It will get a bit more tuning before I am fully happy with it.

I am with you in encouraging others to give saw sharpening a try.

This saw had the top teeth cut earlier, they are crosscut and do pretty good. The teeth cut today are filed rip. A little tuning and this saw will likely end up being my go to saw for dovetail work.
128834

128835

The four cuts on the right were done last. There were only a few lines drawn to follow. Mostly this was to let the saw drive itself to see how it goes.

The teeth were formed without set. One cut was actually made with out the teeth having set just to see how it worked. Did OK, this convinced me to put as little set as possible during the first shot and it seems to have been enough.

Besides vintage saws dot com, the Norsewoodsmith.com has a backsaw project with some files to print out for tooth spacing. 15 tpi was used on my saw for the rip teeth and an 8° rake angle.


Very cool Jim. I have a few files on their way to me and will be going through the same exercise with an old backsaw that looks very much like yours and a couple of full size saws. I'm anxious to get started.

Go for it Jeff, you will be glad you did. Don't get discouraged. I find even a saw with a few sharpening flaws can do a good job. It is kind of like sharpening plane irons and chisels. Your idea of what is a good sharp tool gets better with practice.

jim

[jim hedgpeth]

Now that I know how good these cut I am watching several others on the bay. I like working with hand tools and want a few more saws now. A couple small carcass saws and maybe another smaller dovetail saw with finer teeth.

Jim how do you like that high handle on yours? I am thinking my next one may be the open type handle, but I have never seen one mounted high like that.

Jim

[Robert Rozaieski]

Congratulations Jim! Glad to hear another come forward and admit it's not that hard :D.

Regarding the slow cutting miter saw, if it's cutting really smoothly but slowly, you might try decreasing the rake angle to make it more aggressive the next time you file it. Not sure what angle you filed it at but I've found that with a hand filed saw, I can file a more aggressive rake and still have a very smooth cutting saw. I guess due to the slight differences from tooth to tooth that are a natural result of hand filing. Also, the smaller teeth of backsaws can typically be filed with less rake than larger panel and rip saws and still start easily and cut smoothly.

That is one thing that is really great about about filing your own saws. You can experiment until you find exactly the setup that you like best and not have to settle for whatever the machine at the commercial sharpener is set up to do.

[Matt Ranum]

Got two new saws this week, a Stanley 358 w/ Canadian made Disston Miter saw 28x5, and a "Warranted Superior" 10" back saw I understand is probably a unmarked Disston #4.

I tried my hand at sharpening both, decided to resharpen the miter saw a second time to get it to my satisfaction (for now). They turned out pretty good, nice even teeth, and most important, cut well. I am sure I will look back later and think how much better I could have done this first time around, but that's why practice is so important.

Anyone thinking of sharpening their own saws, go for it, its not as hard as one thinks. Print this as a reference and keep it close when you sharpen your first and you will be well on your way.
http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=sawcare&right=/library/primer/sharp.html

They both cut very sweet, although the miter is a bit slower than I expected. I bet it will cut faster as I get better at sharpening, I am sure it could be sharpened better. It does slice through with VERY smooth strokes though. I am so used to handsaws that chatter, skip and bind, these are a whole new class of saws to me.

As for the miter box, its a tank, rock solid. When it locks in place, that's it , it's not budging, no wiggle at all. I haven't checked every angle yet, but 45* and 90* are both dead on.

The dovetail saw on the other hand is blazing fast, down to the back in just a few strokes. It started out hard to start, but is getting better. I have made a few changes to my technique that help as well. I noticed this one is very picky about stoning the sides evenly after sharpening. Make sure to use the same # of light even strokes on both sides. I did 2 on both sides, but slipped on the first side because I didn't have a good grip on the stone. It showed right away in the test cut. Gave it another light swipe on that side and perfect. Follows a line like a train on rails. I am still surprised how fast it cuts since its 14tpi. It leaves a little rougher finish than the miter saw but fine enough for anything that is not going to show. I don't plan to disassemble any joints to show off how smooth the insides are, LOL.

Since I know "No pics, it didn't happen" here you go.

Later,
Jim


Jim could you get a closer pic of the tie strap that runs across the posts on your mitre box? I just recently picked up a 2358 and it looks identical to yours except its missing that strap. Maybe I could make one for it if I could see one.

Matt

[Jim Koepke]

Jim how do you like that high handle on yours? I am thinking my next one may be the open type handle, but I have never seen one mounted high like that.

Jim

The handle felt a little odd at first. The handle feels like it is made for a smaller hand than mine. This saw is just a step on the way. Eventually, I want to make my own saws. This one has convinced it is will not be that hard.

jim

[jim hedgpeth]

Jim, I dont think I'll be making any saws right away, but I may try a few different handles. I do however plan to make a wood bodied scraper plane soon.

Matt,
I will get a pic for you shortly, but your 2358 did not come with a strap across the top. That is one of the differences between it and the 358, I don't know what all else is different. Here is a 1934 catalog that shows some info on both, as well as many other things of interest to people like us. :D
http://www.roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/astanley1934new.pdf
The 2358 is on page G (6 of my browser, if yours is similar), and the 358 and its class are on pages 128-131 (77+78 on browser). Some good info can be figured from the pics, and reading. It seams to me that the 2358 was a cheaper version. The base looks the same as the 358, but the uprights are made even more different than I first realized. I will get you a pic of the entire upright assembly while I am at it, this has made me curious.

Be right back,
Jim

[jim hedgpeth]

Here are some pics of the front upright, the back is pretty much the same.

The last one shows a second hole for the front upright, I was wondering if this allows the same swivel arm to be used across the line of different sizes?

[Matt Ranum]

Jim thanks for the pictures and the link to the catalog. I find old tool literature very interesting especially when I have some of the stuff in that same catalog.

Your right too, it does look like the 2358 did not come with the cross brace and in fact the towers seem to be completely different than yours. Seems amazing to me that they built so many tools with so many variations.

[Matt Ranum]

Here are some pics of the front upright, the back is pretty much the same.

The last one shows a second hole for the front upright, I was wondering if this allows the same swivel arm to be used across the line of different sizes?

Jim I was reading that old catalog you posted a link for and on page 128 and #14 on the diagram it shows two hole sockets for using different sized saws.

This is the hole you were asking about I think.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, I dont think I'll be making any saws right away, but I may try a few different handles. I do however plan to make a wood bodied scraper plane soon.
...
Jim

I have another back saw blade that needs teeth. That will likely be my next saw project some day. It will need a handle, so that will be my first saw handle. Lots of stuff on the honey do list to work on between now and then.

jim

[jim hedgpeth]

I know what you mean about the honey do list Jim. Add remodeling an apartment building and you can see why my "play" time is very limited right now.

Matt, the second hole would almost have to be for a different miter frame as well. When cranked over to 45* it is mostly covered by the frame on my 358, but may not be on a smaller miter box. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to find one........ hmmmm.... more tools.:D

I have a couple tools listed in the catalog as well, wish I had more. What I like about those old catalogs is the ## of tools you see and recognize from somewhere else. Surprising the # of them now made by someone else. Too bad those prices don't work anymore, a complete #55 plane for under $40 and any Bedrock you want for less than $10.:D

Jim

[Jeff Skory]

Got my files from TFFW yesterday and sharpened up an old crosscut backsaw I bought and cleaned up. Prior to sharpening it would have had a hard time cutting through an apple let alone wood. Afterwards ... :D metamorphosis!!

The toughest part was the fact that the teeth were so tiny. Onto a full size saw next.

[jim hedgpeth]

Know what you mean about the tiny teeth. In the Lie Nielsen video on utube he uses a marker to darken the teeth so you can see where you are at. It works pretty good. Now if I could just see well enough to tell right away if they are rip or crosscut without a magnifying glass:rolleyes:.

Jim

[Richard Niemiec]

Know what you mean about the tiny teeth. In the Lie Nielsen video on utube he uses a marker to darken the teeth so you can see where you are at. It works pretty good. Now if I could just see well enough to tell right away if they are rip or crosscut without a magnifying glass:rolleyes:.

Jim


I use Dykem layout fluid, machinists use this stuff to mark metal, any mill supply store will have it in a small bottle with an applicator top. I prefer red.

[Jeff Skory]

The teeth on my saw had enough patina on them that I was able to tell what was shiny and what was not (with a magnifying glass :rolleyes:)

[Matt Ranum]

What you need are these

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2020140/2020140.aspx

Bi-focal magnifying safety glasses. You can get them in 1.5x - 3.0x I bought a pair last spring in the 2.0x and wow can you see the small stuff. Price is cheap enough too and they are comfortable to boot.

Works great for getting those small slivers outa your fingers too.:p