Peeling Up Tile... Advice?

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Ok, so I've been peeling up tile in the basement in prep for painting the floor, putting up walls and setting up a dedicated shop space.

The tiles are coming up left and right, without much trouble.. Not surprising since the edges are popping on almost all of them.

What I'm dealing with is 12x12 hard vinyl composition tiles. In the basement they are held down with what seems a standard black pressure adhesive, small notch trowel applied.

In some places the floor was very tacky after removing the tile.

OK.. Now the QUESTION.. CAN I prime over the glue and then put down a layer of paint? Still deciding the type of final coat, be it porch paint or a two part epoxy. Not debating that, just what to do about the glue..

Stripping it off seems out of the question as some would still be there.. The best I can do is to maybe pour down some mineral spirits or something and let it sit, then scrape some of it off. I fear I'll be left with a huge mess though.

So, pay up the 2 cents.. Inquiring mind. ;)

[David Christopher]

Scott, I think to get any paint to go down right and stay, you will have to remove the glue and prep the concrete

why dont you lay new tile, its only about 60 cents a SF

[Phil Thien]

The question is, how to you remove the glue?

I've seen floor sanders used to remove tiles. Maybe you could use a floor sander on the glue, too.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Because I don't like the tiles.

If I'm going to go the route of removing the glue and prepping the crete, I'll just strip it off and use a concrete grinder to get the floor smooth and lay down a nice concrete stain and seal it.

But, therein remains, how the heck is the best way to remove the bulk of the glue.

I'd say sanding it all off will not fair well for the pads and I may go broke buying so many.

[Dennis McGarry]

Sawdust is your friend here.

Spread saw dust around all over the glue and let it sit over night, it will then become hard, Then take a floor scraper, and just scrap it off..

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Not sure that tactic will work. This is an asphalt based adhesive it seems.

Ran a test on a small patch with mineral spirits and it loosened it up quite a bit, enough to get all but the worked in crap out.

This leaves a problem though as now instead of thick glue in spots, it's bare concrete with a slicked up dark asphalt impregnated layer of mineral spirits over it and into the pours of the concrete.

Here's some pictures of what I'm dealing with.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs206.snc1/7317_1214403127808_1460724611_30575708_7063258_n.j pg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs206.snc1/7317_1214403167809_1460724611_30575709_1171972_n.j pg
Stripped off a large plot of tiles.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs226.snc1/7317_1214403207810_1460724611_30575710_2838713_n.j pg
Test splotch of mineral spirits.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs226.snc1/7317_1214403247811_1460724611_30575711_7023383_n.j pg
What's left.. Bulk is scraped to the side, but alot of residue.

I'm thinking of stripping the floor like this and then renting a carpet cleaner to pull the residue up.. ;)

[Tim Boger]

Ok, so I've been peeling up tile in the basement in prep for painting the floor, putting up walls and setting up a dedicated shop space.

The tiles are coming up left and right, without much trouble.. Not surprising since the edges are popping on almost all of them.

What I'm dealing with is 12x12 hard vinyl composition tiles. In the basement they are held down with what seems a standard black pressure adhesive, small notch trowel applied.

In some places the floor was very tacky after removing the tile.

OK.. Now the QUESTION.. CAN I prime over the glue and then put down a layer of paint? Still deciding the type of final coat, be it porch paint or a two part epoxy. Not debating that, just what to do about the glue..

Stripping it off seems out of the question as some would still be there.. The best I can do is to maybe pour down some mineral spirits or something and let it sit, then scrape some of it off. I fear I'll be left with a huge mess though.

So, pay up the 2 cents.. Inquiring mind. ;)

Once all the tiles are removed, how about taking a premium modified this-set mortar mixed about the consistency of pancake batter and flat troweled over the black glue. The applied coat will be paper thin and allowed to dry over night. A second coat done the same way should result in a smooth, well bonded cement surface to apply the new finish of your choice.

I know for a fact that removing the glue will be a never ending task.

Tim

[Scott Hildenbrand]

That might be a plan, so long as it's not built up alot at all. Maybe 1/8th inch total if not less. I do NOT want to loose any head space, however minute.

[Rick Hall]

I've cleaned up a bunch of that stuff to prep floors for ceramic tile or stone installation. I usually used a Jasco brand heavy duty floor adhesive stripper, available at most flooring outlets and Home Depot. The stuff smells awful and needs to be used with good ventilation, but it usually the stuff sofened up pretty well. Use a razor scraper, the kind that takes 4" wall shaving blades, to scrape the floor clean. I would usually do two passes, one to get most of the adhesive scraped up and the next to get the floor good and clean. Good luck if you decide to go this route. It's a lot of work, but it does the job.

Rick.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Hmmm.. So they have a specialty floor adhesive stripper.. Heck, I should have figured that.. I'll check the local Lowes in the next few days and see what I can find.

I've got a razor scrapper somewhere around here. It's most likely in the rubbermaid bin that I tossed all the stuff from the garage into when I moved my shop downstairs.. :D

I'm wondering though, if I COULD just do a single pass and then go over it with a concrete leveler to grind down the top a smidge so that I could stain it and put a sealer over it.

Mean, I could stain it a nice light tan for a paltry $5-10 or so via iron sulfate then would just have to get a good sealer over it. [example (http://www.cathy-moore.com/house/stain)]

Granted, it would not be uniform and might have a crack or two showing, but no biggy.

ONLY down side to doing that is if it needs that much ventilation it may be an issue.. None opening (need changed out) windows.. BUT, I do have a nice door and two box fans I can stack in front of it.. Sounds like a nice project for when I can crack the windows open in the house.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Scott,

About 10 years ago I did exactly what you are doing. I bought the commercial flooring adhesive remover and a good mask that uses cartridges to filter the air. I opened the windows and got with it. I had to do it twice but it removed it quite well.

Then using a new type adhesive I installed vinyl floorig.

Good luck. It can be done.

[Darrell Bottoms]

I've also dealt with this type of adhesive. It's petroleum based and you just need to bite the bullet and get a remover made specifically for it...and do plan on hitting it twice. Once to remove and once to clean.

Also, be sure to get a "good" respirator even if you do plan on using fan's/open window's...some of that stuff can take you down pretty quick:eek:. I'd go as far as getting people and pet's out of the house while you are working on it. Also check on flammability issues with this product...might need to make sure any pilot light's are put out...Always play on the safe side of the street!

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Mineral spirits REALLY does a good job of softening it so that it can be scraped up, so I think for the initial I'm going to go that route.. Is way cheaper, after all. It's not nearly as volatile, either from the sounds of it..

I'll run a few tests to see how best to clean up the secondary residue and go with the stripper if needed. I think a good scrub down with lacquer thinner would do fine though for the final cleanup.

That leaves me with at least trying to figure out what I want to do.. Paint, or level and stain.. Paint would be easier and could be done in sections.. Hmmmm... Will have to check and see what I can get. Figure 5 gallons for the entire basement should do. 8x10 chicken coop only took a half gallon, and it was a particle board floor, which is a pain to paint.

[Doug Carpenter]

Scott,

There is definately a stripper for that adhesive. Don't try to skim coat it, that will fail after a short period of time and you will have a huge mess to deal with. Sanding it off will be dusty and a waste of equiptment. I have used a stripper for that glue before and no doubt it is a mess.

My sister recenltly told me about a product a contractor told her to use and she said it worked great. I'll check with her in the morning to see what it was. She has zero remodeling experience and she said it was a snap.

I would recomend one of those epoxy type floor paints one you are done. My garage floor had been painted green with latex paint and then a vinyl floor was installed. We came along and bought the house and I immediately removed the vinyl. We began traking green paint all over the house because it was coming off on our shoes when they were wet. So I bought a semi transparent concrete stain from sherwin williams. It looked so nice when it was done. It walked off pretty quickly; luckily in the high traffic areas the green seemed to come off with it so it is bare concrete again but the floor is not nice looking at all. The epoxy paints are resistant to oils and staining and they look real nice.

[David G Baker]

Scott,
If you have the time and energy, go with mineral spirits but if you want to get the job done use the right stuff. You will probably end up buying the adhesive designed for removal of your type adhesive after you have burned a couple thousand calories using mineral spirits.

[ROY DICK]

Scott,
I hope you have it well ventilated and no pilot lights down there.
Good luck with your project.

Roy

[Scott Hildenbrand]

I was thinking of this paint here, which is what I used in the chicken coop floor.

http://www.valspar.com/products/product/Oil_Porch_and_Floor_Exterior_Paint.html

I figure if it can take their scratching about, then it should take traffic well.

Oil base is all I'd use.. Don't trust the latex for wear.

Problem in garages is once you park the car in there after a long drive, the heat from the tires and engine/exhaust break the paint down quickly. Standard paints can't take that.

The porch paint is really made for high traffic areas, so feel that it would work fine.

Mineral spirits is non volatile, so will not flash. Not worried about that with a pilot light. Other products, no sure about. I'll pick something up and see how it works today.

Have to go to Lowes anyway to pick up some hardware to fix the mower deck.. :(

[Doug Carpenter]

Are you crazy? I couldn't even park a smart car in my garage.;)

My sister said she used a product called Beano. I laughed because I thoought that was for gas.

She said they learned the hard way to brush it on and let it sit overnight and then shae said it scraped up like frosting.

You bill need to clean up well afterwards to be sure your paint adheres well to the concrete.

My guess is that any remover you buy for that adhesive the same rules would apply.

good luck.

[David G Baker]

Scott,
I have used Methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) for cleaning up glue but it is quite to very flammable and probably has a low flash point. I have also used acetone but like MEK it is dangerous.
Check out the product that Doug C mentioned, it sounds like it works like paint remover and may not be flammable. I will have to do a search on Beano, it might be good for a laugh in some circles. :D
The product is called "Bean-e-doo"

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Here's the not-so-beano product. Will check into it. ;)

http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/utility/showProduct/?objectID=317

[Kelly Craig]

When I have a volatile liquid (e.g., paint thinner), I force air into the room [and out a door or window], rather than exhaust it. That way, explosive fumes are not running past my motor, which might arc.

I picked up old blowers off furnaces (free from repair/installation places) and put them in boxes, with cords and switches. They make great air movement devices and are comparable to the ones downtown that cost a few hundred bucks.

Using a couple of these, I’ve worked in rooms without smelling hardly anything (but still used my mask).

A concrete grinder will likely gum up fast, if any significant glue residue is left. Your guess on the sander is right too. I have a commercial drum sander and wouldn’t touch a job like that with a twenty foot pole.

The thought of a skim coat scares me. A minute amount of flex would result in a destroyed base and the covering is only as good as that.

When all done and if moisture might be a problem, you can buy a commercial sealer or can just apply water glass (sodium silicate). It reacts with concrete to become and integral part of it. As a friend said, you end up with concrete looking granite.

Sounds like the thinner and adhesive stripper is the way to go. If it sounds like a daunting project, just keep focusing on what you will accomplish.