Starret Vs all the others

[Brad Wood]

Hey,

What is so special about Starrett to command such a significant difference in price?
I'm looking at combination squares and the others run between $10 and $60 (for the most part).
What is so special about Starrett that they can charge double, or triple, etc, most of the competitors?

for example... the no name brand at Rockler (rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19421)

[Cliff Holmes]

They have a long-standing, well-earned reputation for accuracy. That said, the accuracy is far beyond anything you'll be able to use in woodworking. I recently ordered a $130 Starrett dial indicator and a $35 off-brand. For my purposes, tuning machines and such, they were absolutely identical in performance. The Starrett had a better "feel" from obviously better materials, but it still went back to the seller because I could buy three cheap ones before I spent as much as the Starrett.

[Mike Henderson]

There are actually a number of good brands of precision machinist tools. Mitutoyo is another good brand, as is Brown and Sharpe. But as Cliff pointed out, you need to weigh what the tool will be used for and how well a lower cost tool will work for you.

For combination squares, I have Starrett and Mitutoyo because I use them a great deal.

Mike

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Brad,
Starrett is not the only very good and extremely accurate and trustworthy measuring instrument company in existence but they are the best known to most woodworkers and probably most machinists. The reason to buy dead accurate measurement tools is to have them as a reference. I use a Starrett 3' straight edge when I check a fence or bed of a machine for flatness. I use a machinists square to set a fence or jig at square. I also use my most accurate measurement tools to check the accuracy of the measuring tools I keep in my apron. However, I keep less "dear" measuring tools around the shop to use every day to check joints and square edges and angles. The Starrett instruments are kept safe from the daily hazards of the shop, like the effects of gravity.
fmr

[Jeff Willard]

If you need (or just want) the final word in accuracy, buy Starrett/Mitutoyo/Brown and Sharpe. If you don't, buy the one at Rockler. The premium squares are made for the machinist trade and are accurate to the nth degree, with minimal slop in the mechanism. I can't speak for the one at Rockler, but I have used the $10 models that you mentioned-no comparison. I'm not going so far as to say that the Rockler model is inaccurate, but I'm sure it's not up to Starrett standards. Do I really need a square that's accurate to .0001" over the length of the beam to work wood? No. But if I slap my Starrett square on a piece of stock, and it says square, I know it's square.

You have to decide, it's your money. A side-by-side comparison often tells a lot. I did notice that Rockler doesn't disclose any accuracy specs for that product. Starrett will.

How square is square?

[Vic Damone]

For me it's my six inch adjustable square. The problem is that I use this tool a lot. The one my father left me got lifted so I tried two other brands that were just as square for my woodworking needs but they were mechanically inferior. Armed with a gift card I purchased another Starrett. What a difference, it slides smoothly, a quarter turn on the thumb wheel and it's locked. The scale is more defined and easier to read. It's just plain nice.

I also have a Mitutoyo digital caliper that I purchased when they first came on the market, very nice. I also recently purchased a fractional caliper, I forget the brand, and it too works very well and has become my go to caliper.

[Peter Quinn]

If you want to be annoyed by less than smooth action when changing implements or sliding the scale in the combo square, if you enjoy the rough feeling of a barely adequate thumb screw twisting in your hands as you attempt to make a fine adjustment of depth, or at times enjoy NOT being able to turn the less than adequate thumb screw at all, then buy the cheep one from Rockler or elsewhere. If you enjoy fighting with a tool trying to get the scale back into the square having just turned the scale to its best advantage for the work at hand, then by all means buy a cheep one. Otherwise, buy a starret.

As others have noted there are other high quality brands available, but none of these are what I would call cheep either. The good ones are a pleasure to use and remain very accurate unless abused. All mechanism are smooth operating and scales are easy to read. For machinist squares, which have no moving parts or rulers, I like the inexpensive GROZ brand from India, and I don't cry when one hits the floor. Heck, they are so tuff you can almost change a tire with them anyway. But for squares with moving parts or rulers, I go with starret. I tried a few others and could not suffer the annoyance of using them daily or even infrequently.

[mickey cassiba]

For what it's worth...I own Starrett, Interapid, Browne and Sharpe, and Etalon Instruments. I also have a large collection of "throw-aways". The difference is obvious when used. The "big names" are used to verify the accuracy of the "no names". The "no-names" are used to monitor work in progress. I don't feel nearly as bad when a rogue chip whips out and sweeps a $20 indicator off the machine.
It's all about cost versus results. The $10 indicator will tell you where you're at. The $200 indicator will tell you whether or not you are really there.
Mickey

[Myk Rian]

I repaired precision tools for 20+ years. I spent a week at Starrett in Athol, Mass. learning how they make, and calibrate their tools.
Starrett is the best. Mitutoyo and B&S are second.
For high precision indicators, Starrett, Interapid, Mitutoyo, in that order.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Answer is "you get what you pay for". I learned. I only buy Starrett (no experience with Mitutyyo or B+S). Don't have many, but don't need many.

[Michael Schwartz]

You get what you pay for. I started out with a cheap Empire combo square from the BORG, and have never looked back since I got my Starett. The fit and finish, accuracy, and ease of reading them is just far above the rest.

Not to say other squares can't be accurate, I frequently use a 5 dollar plastic drafting triangle in my shop that when checked to my Starett was dead on. But for a combo square, you just can't beat the fit and finish and feel of a Starett.

[Bob Marino]

I agree with the others - you do get what you pay for - accuracy, quality parts amd great fit n' finish, get a Starrett. Andit just so happens to be made in the USA!http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

Bob

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Look at the different brands in person, and if you don't see why the Starrett is more expensive, buy the other. Starrett is made for people who won't or can't accept compromises. Some of us are those people, some are not. That's why there are multiple brands.

[John Coloccia]

Starret and Mitutoyo are simply the best money can buy for this kind of stuff, at least until you start getting into really exotic instruments. That said, Mike nailed it when he said consider what you'll use it for. What good is it to measure to 1 thousandth when you have no practically method of marking and cutting that precisely, never mind wood movement. 1 thousadth is about 1/40 the thickness of 20lb printer paper. Precision instruments are nice for setting up machines but I find a combo square practically useless for machine setup. Straight edges, machinists squares and dial indicators just work better, IMHO.

With that said, Starret invented the combo square, and as far as I'm concerned they make the nicest combo square out there. I think it's worth it just because it's such a solid, well built unit. Everything fits as it should, it slides as it should, the screw turns as it should, etc. If you don't care about all that, I have a crappy Empire combo square that is absolutely dead nuts accurate. It's the ONLY Empire tool I still have...I threw everything else out long ago because it either didn't work, it fell apart or it was so innacurate I was afraid I'd forget and actually use it for something important one day. Not my combo square, though.

....uhm, but my Starret's a whole hell of a lot nicer :D

[george wilson]

I only buy OLDER Starrett pieces. Thee have been many problems with their digital calipers. Batteries not lasting a week,odd readings,etc.. One guy recently bought an acme thread gauge that was not completely finished,and was not usable. I bought a dial caliper,made in USA,NOT the Chinese import. Found out that the inside measurement was .008" OFF with the outside jaws,and ruined a job over it. Returned the calipers to Starrett for adjustment. They arrived back ONLY .004" off. had the tag with the repair person's name on it. How did it get out of the factory TWICE out of order?

Fortunately,I somehow got hold of a VP. He told me to return the calipers,and sent me a new one. They cost 2X any other brand. SO,I ONLY buy OLDER Starrett tools,though the WERE my favorite tool makers. Just make sure the old Starretts you buy are in excellent condition,and haven't been dropped,etc..

BIG,LONG thread on The Practical Machinist's Forum last month about screwed up Starrett tools.

[Chuck Saunders]

A sheet of 20lb paper is around 4 thousandths thick or .004 not .040. At .040 a 500 sheet ream of paper would be 20 inches thick. I think Peter said it best, if you want a tool that works smoothly and crisply Starrett is your tool. I also think that the markings are easier to read.

[John Coloccia]

A sheet of 20lb paper is around 4 thousandths thick or .004 not .040. At .040 a 500 sheet ream of paper would be 20 inches thick. I think Peter said it best, if you want a tool that works smoothly and crisply Starrett is your tool. I also think that the markings are easier to read.

Yes, very true. 4 thousandths is correct and it's still teeny tiny.

I'm a bit alarmed by George's experience with Starret. I haven't bought anything in several years, but if you can't trust that Starret is dead on right out of the box, we've got issues. Oh well. Mitutoyo makes great tools as well. And then people wonder why all our money goes overseas.

[Alan Wright]

About 10 years ago my brother in law asked us to buy him a Street 12" square for Xmas. I got him exactly what he asked for and paid about $70. For the life of me I couldn't understand why he would have me spend $70 for a squarre you could get at Home Depot (Stanley) for about $6 bucks.

I started woodworking shortly after that and bought a $6 square. Needless to say. I how have three squares 12', 18' and 24'. They are all Starrett and I use them Constantly in my shop Ditto to all the other comments about quality. Since most of my furniture is mission style, it's all straight lines I have good quality power toold that will cut a straight line. With the Starrett square and a sharp pencil, I know my line is dead on.

[Bob Marino]

I'm a bit alarmed by George's experience with Starret. I haven't bought anything in several years, but if you can't trust that Starret is dead on right out of the box, we've got issues.

Ditto. I am only hoping that was maybe a bad run (not a good excuse either) not a harbinger of Starrett's current and future QC.

Bob

[Kent A Bathurst]

Oh - BTW - I treat these Starrett critters like a L-N plane or Japanese paring chisel. They have their own special brackets/holders on the tool wall, they get lubed often, I don't toss other tools on top of them on the workbench, and no one else gets to touch them. I know, I know - Kinda anal, but I grab these all the time, and I want to know they are right. I use the rule to check accuracy on tape measures, TS fence, CMS infeed stop, etc. Kinda like the reference things hidden away by Dept of Weights + Measures. Went over-the-top some years ago, and got the Starrett 48" straight edge. It is in its own wood case. Only use it a couple times per year for calibration on planer + jointer, but I should have gotten it earlier.

[Heather Thompson]

I'm a bit alarmed by George's experience with Starret. I haven't bought anything in several years, but if you can't trust that Starret is dead on right out of the box, we've got issues.

Ditto. I am only hoping that was maybe a bad run (not a good excuse either) not a harbinger of Starrett's current and future QC.

Bob

I have had my Starret combo square for years, the neighbor down the street was having some problems with machine setup, took the walk down the block to see if I could help. Dom was using a cheap combo square, checked against the Starret, his was way off. He went in an ordered a Starret set online, when it arrived we checked against each square off of a granite plate, spot on. I have taken the Starret equipment to the big box stores looking for the elusive low quality square for general work, so far no luck.

Heather

[Jeff Willard]

Why is anybody using a square to check another square?

[Bill Miltner]

In regards to George's advise to only buy older Starrets...Unfortunately, with older (used) Starret's one does not know how they were handled and the results may not be as expected. Yes, one can check them against a know square ( or other devise) but if used a nd not accurate there is no factory recouse.

[george wilson]

I didn't say their squares weren't square,because I haven't tried a new one. I have an old,but like new Starrett that is right on. For checking my squares,I have a granite surface plate,and 2 granite squares that look like thick bookends. I also have a granite straight edge,as well as 3 precision cast iron hand scraped straight edges.

I bought a Chinese black granite square from CDCO,and tested it with high spot blue against my old American granite squares. It seemed to be right on,and that means within .0001" It wasn't too expensive. About $65.00,I think. The American ones would be many times that.

I just try to buy older Starrett stuff myself,in flea markets where I can see it in person first. You don't want to buy a micrometer or square that has been dropped,and you couldn't see that from a picture on ebay.

[phil harold]

nobody has mentioned the biggest difference Starrett, Mitutoyo, Brown, and Sharpe compared to a $10 one is:

They are hardened steel not just cast steel or aluminium The hardend steel does not wear out as fast and is stronger

[Heather Thompson]

Why is anybody using a square to check another square?

Jeff,

Checking one square aginst another square is a time tested method to test accuacy, my Dad made the first faceshild for the first man on the moon, I grew up in his shadow as a Master machinist. If you can not place two squares on a dead flat surface and have the blades meet up perfectly, you own junk, sorry if this sounds mean but my dad drove this into me. Percision is percision, if the wood moves there after I will accept and deal with that!

Heather

[george wilson]

Just so you all know,you can see light between squares that are only off .0001"(a ten thousanth of an inch.)

You guys should go over to The Practical Machinist's Forum. Look under General New. Probably back a few pages,there was a very long thread about everyone's bad experiences with new Starrett tools. Mostly digital calipers that use up batteries in a few days,have random readings,don't work at all,etc. Now,My caliper was a mechanical dial caliper,made in USA,and this was 20 years ago.

I'm not trying to run Starrett down,because that are still my favorite tools,but I only buy the old stuff now.Like I said,you need to look at it in person,and make sure the micrometer frame isn't bent,etc.,etc.,etc..

For new precision tools,I suggest Mitutoyo,and for a USA make,PEC. MSC CO. sells PEC tools. Brown and Sharpe tools are made anywhere these days. I get OLD Brown and Sharpe tools also. Another fine old brand,the equal of ANY other maker was Lufkin,if you can find good examples. I recently got a set of Lufkin telescopic gauges off ebay. Their knurlings are sharp as can be,they are very smooth operating,and very precise. I also have great thread gauges of their make.

[Jeff Willard]

If you can not place two squares on a dead flat surface and have the blades meet up perfectly, you own junk,...


Understand that. But that requires:

A) A known dead flat surface. Even a tablesaw top may not be flat enough for this. And...
B) A known accurate square.

I was taught to butt the square up to a straight edge, draw a line, flip the square. The difference being twice the error. I know that your method is how Starrett does it, and will be more accurate in absolute terms. But it seems mighty fiddly to me.

Not trying to be confrontational, just wondering why so many were using this method :D.

[george wilson]

I am also a machinist. You don't need to be that precise for woodworking. I put out the information for those who might like to know the ultimate way to do it.

I maintain my own little"Bureau of Standards" in my machine room. Most other well tooled machine shops have means of determining ultimate accuracy,or else they have to send their tools out to be calibrated.

I have precision granite plate,straight edge,and squares of lab quality. Also gauge blocks,precision levels,and other things to make sure of accurate settings on the other tools and machines.

For most of my earlier life I did not have these items,and still would not if there wasn't a used tool dealer who is very lax on his prices!!!!

[Chris Friesen]

I was taught to butt the square up to a straight edge, draw a line, flip the square. The difference being twice the error. I know that your method is how Starrett does it, and will be more accurate in absolute terms. But it seems mighty fiddly to me.

Your method requires a known-straight edge, wide enough to register the square against. It then requires you to draw a line accurate to a few thou (or whatever your tolerance is) and then be able to compare against it with the same level of accuracy.

If you've got one known-good square (or three unknown squares) and a steel or aluminum straightedge, you can check the squares against each other with a great deal of accuracy.

[Donald Hofmann]

I'm a bit alarmed by George's experience with Starret. I haven't bought anything in several years, but if you can't trust that Starret is dead on right out of the box, we've got issues.

Ditto. I am only hoping that was maybe a bad run (not a good excuse either) not a harbinger of Starrett's current and future QC.

Bob



CHINA
Starrett Tools (Suzhou) Company Limited
Suzhou Industrial Park
20 Bai He Street
Suzhou, Jiangsu Province
P.R. China 215021
Tel: 86 512 6741.1940
FAX: 86 512 6741.5697
Email: suzhou_order@starrett.cn

This facility manufacturers saw blades and precision tools.

[mickey cassiba]

I'm a bit alarmed by George's experience with Starret. I haven't bought anything in several years, but if you can't trust that Starret is dead on right out of the box, we've got issues.

Ditto. I am only hoping that was maybe a bad run (not a good excuse either) not a harbinger of Starrett's current and future QC.

Bob
Not bashing or flaming...but QC like all other aspects of manufacturing, home and abroad is becoming more and more under the control of accounting and marketing. "Good Enough" is becoming the final word at the end of the day. The business model of many U.S. based corporations is becoming "Sell a million units, and if only ten thousand of them come back, it's been a good day. When I started at Porter Cable, parts were sent to recycle just because they didn't look good, despite functionality.
When I left B&D years later, the only time anything was recycled was because it could not be made to work, appearance meant nothing, after all it was being sold as a "reconditioned item". If they wanted pretty, they should have bought new. As Glen stated in another thread, "We done it to ourselves, we want Nordstrom quality at WalMart prices."
Anybody out there have an American made Zenith TV? Or a cel-phone that was built in the US?
End of rant...sorry folks.
Mick

[Robert LaPlaca]

Just so you all know,you can see light between squares that are only off .0001"(a ten thousanth of an inch.)

You guys should go over to The Practical Machinist's Forum. Look under General New. Probably back a few pages,there was a very long thread about everyone's bad experiences with new Starrett tools. Mostly digital calipers that use up batteries in a few days,have random readings,don't work at all,etc. Now,My caliper was a mechanical dial caliper,made in USA,and this was 20 years ago.

I'm not trying to run Starrett down,because that are still my favorite tools,but I only buy the old stuff now.Like I said,you need to look at it in person,and make sure the micrometer frame isn't bent,etc.,etc.,etc..

For new precision tools,I suggest Mitutoyo,and for a USA make,PEC. MSC CO. sells PEC tools. Brown and Sharpe tools are made anywhere these days. I get OLD Brown and Sharpe tools also. Another fine old brand,the equal of ANY other maker was Lufkin,if you can find good examples. I recently got a set of Lufkin telescopic gauges off ebay. Their knurlings are sharp as can be,they are very smooth operating,and very precise. I also have great thread gauges of their make.

George,

I have some of my dad's vintage Lufkin combo squares (along with Starretts), I would say that they look to be equal of some of the vintage Starrett tools also.. Dad was a master machinst that owned and operated a tool and die machine shop for 40+ years.. Dad was very very meticulous only the best machine tools and measuring tools were used..

[Bob Marino]

Not bashing or flaming...but QC like all other aspects of manufacturing, home and abroad is becoming more and more under the control of accounting and marketing. "Good Enough" is becoming the final word at the end of the day. The business model of many U.S. based corporations is becoming "Sell a million units, and if only ten thousand of them come back, it's been a good day. When I started at Porter Cable, parts were sent to recycle just because they didn't look good, despite functionality.
When I left B&D years later, the only time anything was recycled was because it could not be made to work, appearance meant nothing, after all it was being sold as a "reconditioned item". If they wanted pretty, they should have bought new. As Glen stated in another thread, "We done it to ourselves, we want Nordstrom quality at WalMart prices."
Anybody out there have an American made Zenith TV? Or a cel-phone that was built in the US?
End of rant...sorry folks.
Mick

Sadly, I agree with you. But for me, it would be even more tragic is Starrett, whose reputation was (is?) sterling for being one of thhe USA's top precision manufacturers takes this path.

Bob

[David DeCristoforo]

I have some of the "older" Starrett stuff and it is superb in every respect. Heavy, solid, accurate, really well made with a fine "fit and finish". My son bought some new Starrett tools a few years ago and they do not compare to my old pieces at all. The overall quality and "feel" is just not as good. This would, sadly, not be anywhere near the first time a company with a "sterling" reputation for top quality offerings started passing off lower quality products.

[Bob Marino]

I have some of the "older" Starrett stuff and it is superb in every respect. Heavy, solid, accurate, really well made with a fine "fit and finish". My son bought some new Starrett tools a few years ago and they do not compare to my old pieces at all. The overall quality and "feel" is just not as good. This would, sadly, not be anywhere near the first time a company with a "sterling" reputation for top quality offerings started passing off lower quality products.

I hate to hear that. I have a couple of Starrett combo squares, bought about 8-10 years ago and can't imagine a better quality tool...then again that was 10 years ago.
Bob

[Bill Orbine]

I have some of the "older" Starrett stuff and it is superb in every respect. Heavy, solid, accurate, really well made with a fine "fit and finish". My son bought some new Starrett tools a few years ago and they do not compare to my old pieces at all. The overall quality and "feel" is just not as good. This would, sadly, not be anywhere near the first time a company with a "sterling" reputation for top quality offerings started passing off lower quality products.

While it's true the older stuff may be better.... the "feel" of the old I believe may be "broken in". Little bit of wear and tear gets things going more smoothly and yet still dead on accurate. Either way, there's always a Starrett nearby me and the throw-aways are thrown away.

[Mike Henderson]

While it's true the older stuff may be better.... the "feel" of the old I believe may be "broken in". Little bit of wear and tear gets things going more smoothly and yet still dead on accurate. Either way, there's always a Starrett nearby me and the throw-aways are thrown away.
I find that also. The new Starrett stuff has sharp edges and is just not comfortable in my hand. I prefer squares that have a bit of use - they just feel better. Same reason I like Mitutoyo - the Mitutoyo squares seem to operate smoother than a new Starrett - but my Mitutoyo squares are used, also.

Mike

[And don't ask me how many squares I have of different sizes and types. I'd be ashamed to admit the real number.]

[george wilson]

A few more thoughts: A combination square is not the best square to be truly square. My reliable machinist's squares are the solid steel blade and beam types,from 2" to 24". When I am talking about accuracy,I mean much closer accuracy than would be needed for woodworking. Still,be careful of combo squares. Hardly any multi function tool works as well as a single purpose tool.

Combo squares get more out of square by being slid back and forth. Not all Starrett combo squares are(or were) hardened. Only the most expensive models were.

I have taken the cheaper imported squares that cost a few dollars,and have knocked them into being pretty accurate by using my best squares as references. I use the cheaper squares around filthy stuff,like my metal belt grinder,to set the table square to the platen. There always tends to be water around the belt grinder,from dipping stuff. At least the one at work was not where I wanted an expensive square to be.

I bumped the cheap squares with brass hammers to true them up. Not the way you do a framing square.

If you ever come across a framing square with GROUND edges,it is a good old time one. Check the corners to see if it's been dropped,though,off of a roof. You can adjust it a bit with punches in its elbow,as long as the blades are still straight. Most dealers probably wouldn't recognize the ground edges as most are sheared out these days,and left with sheared edges. I think there may still be a brand of framing square that is ground,but expensive. My large old B & S and Starrett squares cost about $2000.00 new. I hardly ever use a framing square. Someone may know the brand.

[Brad Wood]

wow, never would have imagined this question would have spawned three pages of response :eek:

I appreciate the info, all very interesting comments.

Thank you

[David DeCristoforo]

"...the "feel" of the old I believe may be "broken in"..."

Uh.. um... er... ah... Oh crap. I'm just gonna say it. That is absurd. No offense... sorry. But I don't remember ever having to "break in" my Starrett squares. What I was talking about was not the "action" but the overall quality (or lack thereof). The new stuff feels lighter weight. The coatings are not as nice. That kind of stuff.

[mickey cassiba]

In my "Lab Box" I keep a set of tools that are calibrated, checked and certified. I send them to a "Standards Lab" every 12 months to be checked and certified. Costs me a little money, but it's required for I.S.O. certification. The second tier of instruments, the ones I use to check the shop tools, are not certified, however, they are checked against the top tier tools. The shop tools(third tier) are the ones that are used for actual shop work. Sounds a*al I know. But When I dial in a machine and sign off on it, the user has a record of "traceability to I.S.O. standards. A major factor in getting your shop certified.
That said, when I set up a cut, I use the "disposables". Sure don't want to risk the standardized tools. That, and early on, when I was doing set ups, the shop manager asked me point blank"what's a thousandth? I can't see it or feel it. Just set me up!!!"
FWIW
Mick

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

Not all Starrett combo squares are(or were) hardened. Only the most expensive models were.
The forged - 33 and 434 series have hardened steel heads.
The cast - 11 and 435 series - don't
The 33/434 series is more expensive though.

IIRC, though, both use hardened rules.
Yep - just checked the online catalog & both series have hardened steel rules.

New or old, Starrett squares are good stuff. Mine - an 11 series, spends most of it's life in the tool box and only comes out to check squarness of cheaper squares.

[Byron Trantham]

Interesting thread. About two months ago I found out that my framing square was NOT square. It was one of those stamped aluminum jobs. I had no idea! I immediately threw it away and researched a new one. The prices were $10-$20, $50-$90 and sterrett $200-$300! I opted for a lee Valley stainless steel square. When I got it, it had instructions indicating that it was square within 1/32"! What! Sure enough that tolerance was posted on their web site - I didn't see it. I tested it and it was far less than a 1/32" but still not "perfect". For my purposes it will work fine but I was surprised.

[Michael Prisbylla]

You can tweak a framing square back to square with a center punch. Hit it (fairly lightly) near the inside corner to open it up, also hit the outside corner to close it up. Hope this makes sense.

[Shawn Pixley]

My favorites are my grandfathers old Lufkin squares and thread gauges. But I went to a flea market today and found a 486 Starret micrometer recently calibarated for 30$.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

There are any others?

[lowell holmes]

In addition to being smooth operating, accurate, the numbers never wear off. The 12" combination square has on heck of a ruller on it. You can read the graduations clearly. The round center finder is accurate as well. Mine was a Christmas present from SWMBO. :)

[Phillip Marsh]

A factor in the cost besides not being made in China is the quality of the metal used and its resistance to rust. The more resistant metals are more difficult (costly) for the manufacturer to machine.

I have a lot of "tool" steel calipers and hand shapers that date back to the turn of the last century - i.e. 1910, but they need constant attention to keep them rust free.