newbie needing help with make vs buy

[scott vroom]

I'm considering setting up a shop in my garage to build my own kitchen cabinets. I've got extensive kitchen/bath remodeling and finish experience but haven't built furniture since high school shop MANY years ago. Am I fooling myself that I can buy some power tools and pull this off without spending months/years of practice? I could really use some honest guidance from those of you that have had a similar experience. I can afford to spend several thousand on tools and have a 17' x 18' work area. I'm considering 2 options:

1) Build all new boxes/doors/drawers (about 20 boxes total).

2) Reface 11 or 12 of my existing Kraftmaid plywood boxes, and build 8 or 9 new from the ground up.

I'm considering Shaker style doors to keep it simple.

If successful, I would plan to build other furniture for our home (i.e., any purchased tools would not sit idle after completion of the kitchen cabs).

Thanks in advance.

Scott

[Jerome Hanby]

If you can't do a better job than the prefabs in my kitchen with a rusty saw, a big rock, and a fifth of JD, I'd be surprised :D

I bet a router table, some kind of panel cutting system (Dewalt, Festool, or just a decent circular saw and a saw board), and the usual hand/power tools (drils, sanders,...) would let you do a decent job. Something to use as an assembly table would make life easier too.

[Prashun Patel]

You can certainly do it, but it's an ambitious starter project.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

The average kitchen remodel, according to DIY network shows, is 30K. I'm SLOWLY ramping up to that, although my 60 hour a week job prohibits working on it now. My plans are to start small, with a bathroom cabinet rebuild (1 cabinet each) to learn and burn. Then jump into the kitchen rebuild. 18 cabinets in the kitchen. Start slow and end slower. I've been slowly acquring the tools, I only need a planer now.

How much time are you allowing yourself?

[Mike Cruz]

Scott,

CAN you do it? Probably. Is a 17 x 18 shop big enough? Ehhhh....maybe. Not that you HAVE to have a bigger shop, but tools take space, work area takes space, you need space to finish the cabinets too.

It might be more likely to get it done if you do it in sections. Maybe making 5-8 cabinets (one wall, or section) at a time. Install them. Then move to the next section.

Good luck....

[Robert Parrish]

Kyle, I did just that about 30 years ago with just a Sears radial arm saw, router table and various hand tools. What I did was to take one cabinet at a time and duplicate it using red oak ply and solid frames. It took me a while as I was also working but they came out nice.

[mike roe]

i refinished a full kitchen of cabinets, built new raised panel doors and a 48" base cab with butcher block top using a router table and circular saw. didnt even have a table saw then. odd, it didnt seem like a pain at the time but now with a better shop of tools i look back and wonder how it wasnt worse.

you can do it - just dont expect delivery in two weeks

[bill mullin]

Unless you just really want to build the doors, maybe consider buying them and the drawer fronts. Build the boxes and frames and drawer boxes yourself.
Just a thought.

[scott vroom]

The average kitchen remodel, according to DIY network shows, is 30K. I'm SLOWLY ramping up to that, although my 60 hour a week job prohibits working on it now. My plans are to start small, with a bathroom cabinet rebuild (1 cabinet each) to learn and burn. Then jump into the kitchen rebuild. 18 cabinets in the kitchen. Start slow and end slower. I've been slowly acquring the tools, I only need a planer now.

How much time are you allowing yourself?


Kyle, I'm retired with plenty of time on my hands and I'm in no hurry. I like the idea of starting out slowly building a single cabinet start to finish, then carry forward my learnings to the next cab etc. Thanks for your comment!

[scott vroom]

Unless you just really want to build the doors, maybe consider buying them and the drawer fronts. Build the boxes and frames and drawer boxes yourself.
Just a thought.

Bill, thanks for the input. Yeah, I think I really want to build the doors/drawer fronts. The knowledge and experience would be carried forward to other projects (bedroom/office furniture). I have a patient and supportive wife that actually WANTS me to do these projects. And she know's how to bait a hook and clean fish as well!! I am truly blessed.

[scott vroom]

Mike, I like your suggestion of building in phases. In addition to the 17 x 18 shop floor, I have a 3x8 storage area to stack boxes so that will help on floor space.

Scott

[Jason Strauss]

Scott,

Head on over to the Projects section of the Creek and check out Matt Meiser's Kitchen Project (link below). He's really moving along and doing a great job. I've certainly learned some pretty straightforward and effective techniques from all the posts and pictures there. I think you should go for it!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=117969

[Kent A Bathurst]

"... buy some power tools and pull this off without spending months/years of practice?" - Absolutely. You gotta start somehwere, and I don't think this is too big a reach. Hopefully, you are going for overlay doors + drawers, beause inset AIN'T the place to start.

Jerome = "...big rock, and a fifth of JD..." Doggone it - you literally made me spit out my mouthful of red wine - that's funny. (Hey - power tools are off, just glue, clamps, and chisels to adjust tenons today).

[Gary Benson]

Scott,
I was in your exact situation back in 2003. I built several boxes, refaced existing cabinets with veneer, and built all new doors and drawer fronts with a borrowed contractor tablesaw, new miter saw, and a hand-held router. It has led to a lot of other projects since.
Go for it, and good luck,
Gary

[Nathan Callender]

I was asking questions like this a few months ago. Let me say for a fact, it can be done. Before this current kitchen remodel project, I'd never used a table saw (but had built a few small projects and I'd done a decent amount of home repair and renovation before). If you have the time and determination and enjoy a good challenge, go for it. I've spent a good deal of time learning how to use a table saw and planer, and a good deal more time planning, ordering, and managing the project then actually doing the woodwork. I think those are the harder parts of a project of this size. In all honesty, once you build the first cabinet and door, the rest are not that hard. :-)

This is how I've tackled the project. I first ordered a few 'how to make cabinets' books from amazon. Then I made to-scale drawings of the new cabinets installed. Once my wife and I decided on a layout we liked, I made a cut list and materials list and ordered all the supplies (plywood, lumber, hinges, screws, router bits, etc). I also got a table saw, planer and I had a router, cir saw, drill, etc - the usual hand tools.

Then I built one cabinet to make sure I didn't have any unanticipated joinery problems, etc. Once I was happy with it, I started on one side of the kitchen and built those. These should be getting hung this weekend after I finish hanging drywall. :-)

So, I would recommend first building a one, and then one wall at a time (or even less) so you don't have that much stuff sitting around. I would also recommend building face frames first, then doors and drawer faces, then drawers and shelves, then the carcasses. That way you maximize your space for the majority of the build process, and you can check your dimensions off the face frames to make sure your doors, drawers and shelves are the right size. I did it backwards and have had a whole bunch of plywood in the way since!

I also turned our dining room into the finishing room and built a little finishing rack to put items on. It's worked out well, but we chose finishes that are not nearly as toxic as some out there, and we ventilated very well. Were I to do it over again, I would have done the finishing in the garage and planned the project better so I could blow out the garage before starting a finishing spree and get it all done at one time. (We applied finish as we had time which has drawn out the process for quite a while).

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions, but I say, "go for it!"

[Matt Ranum]

I didn't have much woodworking experience when my brother asked if I could make his new kitchen for him. A great learning experience that took a long time to do.

Here is my list of essential tools:
Table saw
router and preferably router table
circular saw and straight edge (for cutting sheets down to manageable size)
Keg pocket screw kit
a hand plane (for truing up face frames)
and of course an orbital sander
drill

If you have most of these tools you can do a very respectable job, if you more thats awesome too but it doesn't take a ton of tools to do the job at a hobbiest's pace.

[Nathan Callender]

I agree with Matt, and I'd also add that you should try to get the shop organized well before starting. IE, build a lumber and plywood rack for the wall, build a simple router table using your newly acquired table saw, make some jigs that you'll need, etc. This will make like much easier once the project starts and gives you some practice projects before starting on the cabinets.

To answer your questions, I would build all new cabinetry. That way everything matches and you can pick your favorite woods for what you want. Also, I would pick the style of cabinet and door you really like, and not base it so much on what seems easier to do - after all, for the amount of time you will put into the project, you'll want to end up with a design that you really like.

Hopefully we're convincing you that this is a good idea. :-)

[Darrell Bade]

Yes it can be done. I would build all new cabinets. Here is my story for proof.

I have done a lot of woodworking over the years but just building shelves, cedar chest and a couple of desks. I had a Ryobi BT3000 table saw and a lunchbox planer, jointer and router.

We moved and I built a 30x60 pole barn. We finished a 20x30 to live in for a while and I made a 30x20 section my woodshop. Problem was I did not get the woodshop finished and we had stuff everywhere from the move so when we started the house I had a 15x20 area to work in plus a table set up outside. I celebrated having a new shop with the purchase of a sawstop and then started building my cabinets. I built all the kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities and laundry room cabinets. I started the first of June and got done the middle of September. I do not remember how many cabinets there were, but they were face frame cabinets and there were 27 raised panel doors and 16 drawers plus some pullout drawers for the spice rack. I used 420 board feet of oak, 16 sheets of 3/4" oak plywood, 5 sheets of 1/2 oak plywood and 4 sheets of 1/4" oak plywood. Used Blum drawer slides and hinges. My cost for the project was about $3000. I already had a dovetail and Kreg jig and acquired a Grizzly 15" planer and Grizzly 8" jointer along the way.

It can be done. Before this project I had never made raised panel doors or dovetailed drawers, but neither of them was that hard. The boxes were easy to put together. In my opinion cabinets are fairly straightforward to build. The biggest thing that took time was sanding. I sanded everything using a 5" ROS. If I ever did a job like this again a drum sander would be added to the shop. I spent hours with that ROS in my hand. My wife also stained all the cabinets as soon as I got done building them.

You do need space to put the cabinets as you are working on them. My other 20x30 section of the pole barn was full of cabinets. The ATV's and tractor set outside all summer.

I attatched some pictures for motivation. My cabinets might not look totally professional, but I sure get a lot of compliments on them.

[Stanley Smith]

I have a patient and supportive wife that actually WANTS me to do these projects. And she know's how to bait a hook and clean fish as well!! I am truly blessed.

You better take VERY good care of that woman!! :D

[scott vroom]

Darrell, thanks for the comments and pics. Your cabinets look beautiful! Did you design them yourself? What type of finish and how was it applied?

Thanks-
Scott Vroom

[Darrell Bade]

I cheated on the design. My wife went to a cabinet shop and told them what she wanted and they laid it out. She then got a Kraft Maid and another book from Lowe's and she found the layout for each cabinet in the book that she wanted and marked it on the drawing. I made a couple of detailed drawings in Autocad to get me started and then just did the rest on the fly. They started the house in May and I had to match the builders pace on the house. Autocad was really helpful on the corner cabinets. I drew them to scale and set the tablesaw for the dimensions it gave me. Was glad they fit perfect when installed.

I did not use any pre-finished ply. I also made the drawers out of solid oak. I bought the oak for $1.90 a board foot and figured that was about as cheap as anything. There are two coats of Minwax stain on the cabinets. I then had the painter that laquered the woodwork in the house spray the cabinets. He used what he called a cabinet laquer that is supposed to be harder than the stuff they used on the woodwork. I installed them and he sprayed them in place, including the insides using Graco airless sprayer. He took the drawers, shelves, doors and other parts home and returned them after spraying them. I planned on spraying them myself before installing them but ran out of time. Like I said, I had to match the builders pace and the mortgage company was giving me grief about the cabinets needing to be done before closing. At least you do not need to worry about that part of the equation.