Byrd Helix vs. spiral cutterheads and noise issues

[Tom Hassad]

I have been thinking of getting a spiral cutterhead jointer/planer not so much because of the blade life issues but based on someone describing that this design cuts down on noise due to the shearing action.

Then I thought I read on either an article or post that spiral cutterheads may have cutters that are placed in a spiral pattern but that the cutterheads have the same orientation to the board when they make contact and that a byrd shelix cutterheads are all turned at different angles within the spiral so that this configuration, and not a regular spiral cutterhead delivers the best shearing action and consequently lesser noise.

I do not care so much about the quality of cut between the two designs but if I am going to spend $500 extra on cutterhead design vs. straight blade design, I want to know whether there is any appreciable difference in noise reduction in a spiral vs. byrd shelix because I will then go with byrd shelix if this is true.

I practice woodworking like most, in an urban environment, so noise reduction is important (ok, not important enough to skip power tools altogether, but you know what I mean).

Any thoughts? - Tom.

[Tom Hintz]

I have the Powermatic PM15HH planer with the Byrd head and when I first ran wood through it, I thought it wasn't working until the wood came out the other side super-smooth. I have tried the segmented heads and other "helical" designs (cheaper copies of the Byrd head) and they are far louder. They also have a lesser cut quality.
I have a review of my PM15HH with photos and video of the head at the lin below if that would help.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/pm15hhrvu.html

[Rick Fisher]

I have a "Magnum" helical head on my planer.. It makes a mild buzzing sound when cutting.. My old planer with steel knives screamed when cutting..

The difference is amazing..


http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Helical1-1.jpg

This head is different than the Byrd.. Probably not as quiet.. it uses a 2 sided carbide blade.. the knife is made in Germany.. I think Laguna is selling this head as well..

Overall, I think the Byrd is more cost effective, 4 edges instead of 2.. I get zero scallop with this head.

Changing the blades to the sharper side is super simple.. all you need is that wrench..

[David Freed]

I think you will find that a spiral head is drastically quieter than regular knives, and a Byrd head is a little quieter than a spiral. Although the Byrd head is better, if it cost quite a bit more, I would stay with the spiral. If a lot of your work is with lumber that frequently has tearout, the Byrd head is probably worth spending more on.

[Myk Rian]

byrd shelix cutterheads are all turned at different angles within the spiral
No. The Byrd cutters are all turned the same way.
With the Byrd shelix on my DW735, I no longer have to wear my ear muffs. That was one heck of a screaming machine before.
The noise level has dropped that much. I was totally surprised.

[Philip Rodriquez]

First, the mass of the machine will make a big sound difference, regardless of the blade type.

Second, Tom, did you (or do you) receive any sort of compensation from PM, for your review?

I have a byrd head on a 15" planer and a Griz SC on my 10" jointer. Both are quieter than my Jet 1.5 HP DC. I doubt there is much sound difference between the two (less than a db) and both have an excellent cut quality. Go with one that fits your budget.

[Brian Backner]

Does anyone know the patent number for the Shelix cutterhead? As a machinist, I've often wondered how easy/not easy it would be to build one of these things from scratch and knowing the angles and length of spiral would help to figure out the difficulty factor.

Before anyone asks - no, I'm not interested in building knock-offs - usually, such machining operations are set up on specialized tools that do one operation each and I'm guessing there are several dozen ops for each cutterhead. The amount of time it would take to set up each operation on a non-specialized machine would make it cost prohibitive to make even one for myself! Cheaper to just buy one.

Brian

[Tom Hintz]

[QUOTE=Philip Rodriquez;1220040]
Second, Tom, did you (or do you) receive any sort of compensation from PM, for your review?

IQUOTE]

No.

[Myk Rian]

Does anyone know the patent number for the Shelix cutterhead? As a machinist, I've often wondered how easy/not easy it would be to build one of these things from scratch and knowing the angles and length of spiral would help to figure out the difficulty factor.

The problem would be in getting the pad angles right for the cutters. They do not sit flat in relation to the shaft, and are pulled/seated into place with the screws.

[Robert Chapman]

Cheap shot to Tom. I had a similar experience to Tom's and I'm not getting paid either.

[Thomas Bennett]

I just converted a 25-30 year old powermatic FS305, made bt SAC, over to the Byrd head. No compensation for the next few lines. I am astounded by the finish and quiet sound of the head. When I think of all the hours I spent adjusting the knives of this machine over the years, I regret not getting one years ago. I bought it mainly as I work quite a lot of figured woods. Nothing else to say except I dream of converting my shaper and planerover to the Byrd system.

[Steve knight]

the cutter is a bit nosier when just running compared to my regular head on my jointer but one cutting there is as usual a huge difference. the money I have saved on sharpening cutters and the time it took to change them has paid for the head several times over.

[David Winer]

I just converted a 25-30 year old powermatic FS305, made bt SAC, over to the Byrd head. No compensation for the next few lines. I am astounded by the finish and quiet sound of the head. When I think of all the hours I spent adjusting the knives of this machine over the years, I regret not getting one years ago. I bought it mainly as I work quite a lot of figured woods. Nothing else to say except I dream of converting my shaper and planerover to the Byrd system.
How does one go about converting older Powermatic jointer or planer to a Byrd cutting head? Are the parts made specifically for the machines by model number?

I don't get the meaning of "made bt SAC."

[Fred Hargis]

How does one go about converting older Powermatic jointer or planer to a Byrd cutting head? Are the parts made specifically for the machines by model number?

I don't get the meaning of "made bt SAC."
Some machines take specific heads, but many use the same model. My Delta takes the "generic" 4 post 15" head. Putting it in was fairly easy (I thought) but you do have to pull a bearing and press it back on. Byrd provides a very complete step by step guide, and there is one on their website as well. Total installation time for mine was probably 4 hours (give/take) spread over a few days. Basically, you remove the old cutterhead/gearbox as a unit, install the new cutterhead, and then put the assembly back intomthe planer. BE SURE to werar heavy leather gloves when handling the Byrd head. All those little sharp corners on the inserts are hell on the hands (DAHIKT) Here's alink to their instructions: http://www.byrdtool.com/Four%20Post%20Install.html

[Mike Cruz]

Funny, I was going to post this same subject. I was looking at the Grizzly catalogue (on line) and noticed, if I can remember correctly, 3 different options. I was wondering if the extra cost of the Byrd's was justified. If anyone can look at that page and explain the differences, I'd appreciate it.

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2009/Main/46

Ah, I think I may have noticed the/a difference. Please correct me if I'm wrong, or if you can add anything, again, please do.

What one of the posters hinted toward was that the Byrd heads have their cutters aligned IN a spiral, but perpendicul to one another; where the regular spiral heads have their cutters aligned IN a spiral, but perpendicular to the table (if that makes sense).

Is that why the Byrd's are considered "better" or at least better at not tearing out?

[J.R. Rutter]

SAC is the name (abbreviation of the full name) of an Italian machinery company.

Byrd has a library of cutterhead specs for various machines, or can custom build a head from a drawing or existing cutterhead. I had a custom head built for an old General 12" jointer. Great product...

[Fred Hargis]

Funny, I was going to post this same subject. I was looking at the Grizzly catalogue (on line) and noticed, if I can remember correctly, 3 different options. I was wondering if the extra cost of the Byrd's was justified. If anyone can look at that page and explain the differences, I'd appreciate it.

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2009/Main/46

Ah, I think I may have noticed the/a difference. Please correct me if I'm wrong, or if you can add anything, again, please do.


Is that why the Byrd's are considered "better" or at least better at not tearing out?
Grizzly states there is no performance difference between their cutterhead and a Byrd. Others swear the shearing action of the Byrd has to be superior. I don't have an opinion on all that, but I bought the Byrd head for my Delta from Grizzly. I was going to buy their model, but the price difference was only $50, so I went with the Byrd. It does have more inserts (96 versus 80, I think).

[Paul Greathouse]

I have a Grizzly 20" Planer and a Grizzly 12" Jointer, both with Grizzly spiral heads and they are plenty quiet. I've never heard a Byrd head in action but I don't see how there would be a big enough difference in noise for it to matter.

If your dust collection is in the same room with your planer the dust collection is going to be louder anyway. I have a 3hp Oneida Cyclone and I can hardly hear the planer over the noise it makes coupled with the wooshing sound of wood chips traveling through the metal ducting.

[Philip Rodriquez]

Tom, no disrespect intended. I think you have a fine site and I respect your entrepreneurship.

However, your statement "...I have tried the segmented heads and other "helical" designs (cheaper copies of the Byrd head) and they are far louder. They also have a lesser cut quality..."

Since I have both (a Byrd and a Griz), I found your statement to be puzzling. Do you have a DB measure that supports the "much louder" statement? Also, a lesser cut quality? How was this measured?

Don't get me wrong, but your site generates a lot of traffic and I think many people would take your word for it. I, however, have both cutters and, therefore, am a little curious how you came to your conclusions.

[Todd Hoppe]

I have a Grizzly GO586 jointer. It came with a straight cutterhead. Becasue of the Bing cashback, I upgraded to an indexed head.

I'm happy with the difference in finish, but the noise reduction is astounding. It's barely audible when runninga board through. I don't notice a difference when running without a load.

With the straight blades, the noise was really quite loud. I was shocked. Also, I noticed that the effort to push a board through is substantially reduced. The machine feels safer.