Wide Belt Sander Advice

[Andy McCormick]

Ok I'm contimplating purchasing a wide belt sander. I am a single man shop that builds furniture and kitchens. I am wanting to know if anyone out there can give me some advice on a few things. I want a 43 inch wide belt. My question is does the belt length make that much of a difference? I realize that a 60 inch belt verses a 75 inch belt would not last as long but since I am a single man shop is it reallt that big of a deal? I went out to the show in Las Vegas this year and looked at a few while I was there. Grizzly had many there hooked up and they demoed one while I was there. The board seemed to be sanded nice with no sanding lines, Is there anyone here that has a Grizzly wide belt that can give me an opion of them? I would really like to see one in action (regardless of the make) that lives close to me. I live in Liberty Indiana. What should I look for in a wide belt? How does one manufacturer compare to another? Thanks for any input. Andy

[george wilson]

They had a Timesaver 36" belt sander in the millwork shop in Colonial Williamsburg. It was Taiwan made. It gave good results,but 3 or 4 times I had to take the outfeed roller that the conveyor ran on out of the machine and repair it.

The first time,we found that one of the axles was crammed into the end of the roller,and didn't seem to be attached in any way. It was crammed into a VERY rusty hole that didn't look particularly round. Neither did the axle. I had to machine out the hole,thread it,and make a new threaded axle to screw in. The hole was a bit over 1 1/2" deep.

It ran for a few years,then somehow began unscrewing the axle,though the thread SHOULD have been tightened from the direction the roller turned.

I can't recall what I did to correct this,but a few years later,it broke down again. I believe I made a steel flange that screwed to the end of the roller,and had big set screws to keep the axle from turning. There may have been another repair somewhere,I can't recall.

This was the only trouble they ever had with it,and the sander saw a lot of use in that shop.

If you use caustic gook remover to clean your gummed up belts,DO NOT flush the water down the drain. They plugged up a 4" sewer pipe doing that over the years. The contents looked like the pipe was stuffed full of MDF. They had to dig the whole thing up and replace it.

[Curt Harms]

They would hook people up with others who owned the machine in question so prospective purchasers could see a machine before buying it. I don't know if they still do that but it might be worth a call to Grizzly's customer service people and ask.

[Karl Brogger]

Longer belts are best. They last alot longer, and run cooler. If you're going for a 43", pony up the extra bit of cash and get a dual head machine. Saves a ton of time, and isn't that much more money. Look for a used model.

[Andy McCormick]

I called grizzly but they didnt have anyone within 400 miles of me to go see.

[Simon Dupay]

I'd stay away from Asian timesavers and find a good used U.S or European made one -just too much money to spend not to get a good sander, I use a Taiwan made timesaver at work and we experience problems all the time with it.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I don't have one, but lately I've been seeing LOTS of them for sale on our local Craigslist. Look for a used one...

[J.R. Rutter]

I recently saw a used 43" dual head Grizzly for sale, but don't remember where . . . They were asking less than $10K. Not very helpful, but they are out there. I wish I had space and power capacity for a 3rd head. Having two is very nice though.

FWIW, I have been very happy with my SCM Sandya 5. We run it about 2 hours per day.

Whatever you get, keep it clean - everything lasts longer...

[Rick Fisher]

I went to the AIFS show looking at Wide Belts as well. Another member here, and I looked at every machine we could find..

The machine which impressed us the most was the Houfek.. It was heavier built than the SCM and the Timesavers by a large margin.

I was looking at 36" Single head machines.. The Timesavers is made in Taiwan..

The differences are in things like the diameter of the front roller, thickness of the table support bolts (2 or 4 bolts?),internal dust collection system and overall build. The Houfek was about 1000 lbs heavier.

Look into how the belt tracking works and how the belt run-off system works..

This is an internal shot of the Houfek.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1140470.jpg

On the Houfek, the steel with the 1 and 2, which hold the whole mechanism together, where twice the thickness of steel of the SCM or Timesavers..

There are all sorts of features avaliable..

If you look at this picture, on the far right, beside the conveyor..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1140467-1.jpg

That is a thickness measuring device.. it will judge how thick the material your are going to sand is, and adjust the sander to the right height..
That is a handy feature IMO.. Its available on most brands as an option..

If I where you, I would research the machines, compare all the features..


I believe this is the inside of an SCMI Sander.. Also a good machine, but not as impressive to me..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1140535.jpg


At the end of the day, all the machines will do the job..

[mickey cassiba]

We are using a 36" TimeSavers(Taiwan) in our specialty shop, and at times it can be a real maintenance nightmare. That said, when it is running correctly, it's a dream machine. Oak and maple stair treads and counter top glue-ups glide through wit nary a divot. Once though a couple years ago, the guys upstairs decided that we would start offering Azak mouldings and arches, what a debacle. I'm still pulling pieces of Azak out of the ductwork and even in the sander itself I occasionally find a small chunk welded to some obscure part of the machine.
Any of the many machines on the market will probably delivered good results, as long as you don't try to over-feed.

[Bill Orbine]

75 inch belts definitely last longer because of less heat build up. It's nice to have a platen for final pass. 4 jacks screws are sturdier and more accurate. Make sure there's safeties (for people AND for the machine) built into machine. Safety for the machine is that it doesn't run if it's not set up properly such as adequate air suppy. I've seen machines run without air and the drum gets damage. I prefer air for belt tracking over light beam as dust sometimes obscure the light beam and belt un-track. Also nice is the extended infeed and outfeed table/conveyor.

Finally, for a single man shop .... I'd consider investing in a well made single head machine with adjustable platen (something other than the cheap two head sander from Grizzly or SunHill). You really don't need the second head.. just my opinion. SCMI is one of those. I guess Time-Saver used too be good since we have a number of posters with complaints. European machines makes me drool.

[Andy McCormick]

OK Bill you say that the Grizzly 2 head sander is cheap. Did you have a bad experience? This is the kind of info that I am looking for. Good experiences and bad. Andy

[Rob Sack]

When I was looking for a wide belt sander, I was most impressed with the Halstey, which was made in America and used standard bearings and bushings available from any parts house. I understand Halstey was sold some time ago and I believe was purchased by Safety Speed Cut, also an American company. If the Safety Speed Cut machine is based on the original Halstey, that would still be my first choice.

[John Pratt]

I never should have opened this thread and seen that Houfek. Now I want one, but it is Waaaayyyyy out side of my price range (even used or reconditioned).

[J.R. Rutter]

I believe this is the inside of an SCMI Sander.. Also a good machine, but not as impressive to me..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1140535.jpg


At the end of the day, all the machines will do the job..

Is that a little 1S? The 3S was more comparable to the Buldog, IIRC. You're right, the Houfek was quite solid. I can't remember - did it have a rubber or steel drum on the first unit?

[Andy McCormick]

Anyone else have more recommendations?

[J.R. Rutter]

Back to your original question on the Grizzly. I do have an acquaintance that uses a Grizzly widebelt in a large scale production environment. His take is that they work well up to the point where components begin to fail (5 years?), then it is not worth the upkeep and they get a new one. They keep those assets busy though! For a one man shop, it should last a long, long time.

For doing small runs of a few parts, the savings of a two head is negligible. But for larger jobs, it is frustrating to double the time when you need a second pass at a finer grit, especially when you are under a deadline. If you require extreme accuracy, remember that belts are different thicknesses for various grits and types. Also, the ability to raise and lower the platen quickly and accurately will get you more life as you go from roughing/calibrating to finish sanding. Why run a 60 grit belt with a platen?

[Andy McCormick]

Anyone else have more recommendations?

[Brian Brightwell]

Andy, when I was looking for a wide belt sander I went to 3K machinery in New Albany In. They are a little ways from you. Dave Cave was nice to deal with. They have used machines. The mechanic there seemed very knowledgeable. You might see what they have in stock.

3K Machinery 4130 Profit Court, New Albany,IN 47150
8129449889 cell 8127738207

[Paul B. Cresti]

I was at one time just about ready to purchase a widebelt but things changed just as quick. I was down to a SCM/MM or a Midwest Patriot 1 (acutally made in the USA!!!). I was going to pull the trigger on the the Partiot 1 as it was a very solid well built machine. Do add them to you list to check out.

I was dealing with a Ed Strahota at Midwest, a really nice guy. If you get in touch with him tell him I said hello estrahota@midwestgroupone.com

Paul

[Darren Duchi]

Andy in my experience Length of the belt for us is strictly to reduce heat build up. We use 6 different wide belt sanders and the best ones by far have belts that are longer than the 75". Longer belt = Less Heat = longer belt life and less chance of getting burnt face on dense hardwoods.

My .02 cents.
Darren

[Thomas Bennett]

When I was looking for a wide belt sander, I was most impressed with the Halstey, which was made in America and used standard bearings and bushings available from any parts house. I understand Halstey was sold some time ago and I believe was purchased by Safety Speed Cut, also an American company. If the Safety Speed Cut machine is based on the original Halstey, that would still be my first choice.

I have a "Safety Speed Cut" 43" x 75" that is about 3-4 years old. I also have a 20 year old Jet 25" x 60". Both are great machines and easy to maintain.
The Safety S.C. is not as heavy-duty as some of the Timesavers or SCMI, and like brands. For the small shop, though, using it intermitantly, I felt it was the way to go. For the money, it's a great way to sand 43". I use it for tabletops, fraceframes, entrance doors, etc..
I bought both of my sanders new. I would never buy a used one, unless I was familiar with thier operation. The Jet is old and takes a "special touch" to start and operate it effectively.
One more thing, when the moochers come around the shop looking for a free sanding of a tabletop(or whatever), I just say, "Sure, get me some belts and I will get right on it", that usually shuts them up and sends them away!

[Chris Peterson]

I’m sure you’ve purchased a sander by now, but I thought I’d offer some insight for others who may stumble across this thread.

I’ve been repairing widebelt sanders for over 18 years and have worked on most all of them.

As for the Grizzly, there's a lot of bang for the buck. The only complaint I had was the lack of up/down adjustment on the heads on the multi-head sander. You need this adjustment to compensate for different belt thicknesses as well as different grits.

A 75 inch belt is 25% longer than a 60 inch belt and you’ll get at least 25% more life out of it – probably more than 25% because of the lack of heat build-up.

As for what country the machine comes from, I’ve seen both good and bad come from the U.S., Taiwan, and Europe. Even the best sanders have their quirks.

My basis of what I look for in a machine is biased by my job – after all, I’m the one who has to work on these things. Here's what I'd consider before buying a machine.


Make sure parts are readily available. If you destroy your contact drum, you can get it recovered and turned around in a week or so, but if you can’t wait that long, you’ll want it in stock somewhere that you can get it sooner. The other critical parts to be able to get readily are conveyor belts and tracking eyes. Most other parts of sanders can be obtained most anywhere.
The contact drum. Make sure it is spiral grooved. The grooves work to dissipate heat, channel dust out, and increase (enormously) the amount of stock removal. The edge of each groove acts like a tooth on a saw blade. Also make sure there is side-to-side adjustment available on the head – some machines require leveling the conveyor bed to the head which is not only a pain but becomes a real problem on multi-head machines since it requires, in effect, twisting the bed. Make sure there are adjustments for up/down of the heads on multi-head machines to compensate for different belt thickness and grits.
The platen. Wider platens are better for eliminating chatter marks and providing a better overall finish scratch. Observe how hard it is to change the platen graphite – some machines require removing several bolts in less-than-desirable locations while others simply slide in and out.
Look to see hard it is to repair (they’ll all need it sometime) the common items like replacing the conveyor belt, contact drum, and bearings. I can change out a drum and/or bearings on a Timesavers, SCMI, or Biesse sander in about an hour. There are several sanders that require at least four hours. Time is money – especially if you’re paying somebody to do the work.

I hope this helps.

- Chris Peterson
- ComprehensiveRepair.com

[Karl Brogger]

Ever hear of a idler roller getting bent? Somehow the top one on my Speedsander sander got goofed up. I have no clue why. It started taking out the bearings, and then tracking issues. I still haven't made it up to Maple Grove for a $270 replacement, even though a its taken out more than $270 worth of belts.



Being your from MN, you'd probably recomend a Timesavers Inc. sander to a fellow Minnesotan?:D

[Chris Peterson]

Karl,

I had a bit of trouble logging on for a while but it seems I figured it out.

I wouldn't recommend a Timesavers sander just because I live in Minnesota - there are other good reasons as well.

Your problem with the top idler roller is common. I don't normally see the shaft bent so much as it wears out due to a cheap (and inexpensive) bearing. It's a design inadequacy, but the machine as a whole is very competitively priced and therefore costs do need to be cut somewhere.

-Chris Peterson
ComprehensiveRepair.com