Introduction and Hamlet mortise chisel question

[Clint Heidelberg]

Hello, I am new to the forum. I have some experience WW with power tools a few of them my own, most of them at work. I am starting to set up a shop at home and have decided to go mostly hand tools. I have been researching different tools for months and have started buying some saws and planes, but I am having trouble with the chisels.

This is what I am doing. I am going to build two baby gates out of oak. I am thinking a top and bottom rail of 1x4 oak. Vertical sides M&T into the top and bottom rails out of 2x2, and vertical slats in the middle M&T of 1x2.

I am looking at the Hamlet 3/8 mortise chisel from Diefenbacher(about 40 bucks), but everything I have heard about Hamlet is in relation to their turning tools. Has anyone used their motise or bench chisels? I can't afford the Ray Iles right now and I have decided to stay with Imperial so that rules out the Hirsch/Two Cherries. Any other options? Is it a big deal to mix imperial and metric? I see Traditional Woodworker has a german made imperial mortise chisel. Any take on these? Last question. The mortise in the 1x4's is only going to be about 1/2" deep, which will leave 1/4" of wood. Do I need a swan neck chisel to clean up the bottom of a mortise this shallow? If so is the Henry Taylor 3/8 swan neck at LV a good one? I guess I lied about the last question thing. Thanks.

Clint

[Frank Drew]

Hi Clint,

Welcome to the board, but I'm not sure I entirely understand all your questions.

The easy part first -- you can use metric or Imperial chisels to make the mortises as long as you can tailor the tenons to match.

If your stiles (vertical sides?) are 2x2s and the top and bottom rails 1x4s, and you're planning on orienting the 1x4s on edge, I'd probably mortise the 1x4s into the 2x2s rather than the other way around, and I'd make the mortises deeper than 1/2" for added strength.

"The mortise in the 1x4's is only going to be about 1/2" deep, which will leave 1/4" of wood." Could you explain this part a bit better?

A swan neck chisel is useful for hand cut mortises but not essential, and won't be used for much else (if you're on a tight budget). In any case, best practice is to make your tenon slightly shorter than the mortise is deep, so a bit of unevenness along the mortise bottom won't hurt a thing.

Maybe some others will be able to advise on the brands you're looking at.

Good luck with the project.

[Clint Heidelberg]

I was going to lay the 1x4 so that the stiles tenoned into the 4" side. This is where I got the idea.
http://dans-woodshop.blogspot.com/2009/02/woodstove-fence-complete-and-installed.html

But maybe I should use 2x2 for the top and bottom too, kinda make a frame of 2x's and then use the 1x2's for stiles in the middle. That way I could have a deeper mortise.

[David Keller NC]

Ditto on which way to mortise and tenon the sides and the top and bottom rail together - I'd mortise the top and bottom rail into the two 2X2 sides.

There's good reason to buy a Ray Iles, but it's not because it's a Ray Iles (though they do make superb edge tools). Its because the of the pattern - the traditional oval handle and slightly trapezoidal architecture of the blade make it a considerably more effective tool than less expensive to make, round-handled versions with rectangular aspect blades.

Yes, they are more expensive, but consider that this is a lifetime purchase - it's dang near impossible for you to "use it up" in your lifetime. And if at some point you decide you don't want to hand-mortise anything anymore, you can sell the tool for very nearly what you paid for it.

And there is the less expensive route of an antique:

http://www.thebestthings.com/chisels.htm (CH9064 I & H Sorby is one example)

You can get an English-pattern mortise chisel even less expensively on fleabay, but the outcome is less certain. Sometimes the fleabay tools have issues that will be difficult to correct. For that reason, I'd suggest buying an antique from a reputable dealer.

[Dan Klauder]

Hi Clint,

I think you already got some great advice from David and Frank, but I'll chime in with my two cents worth.

As to the mortise question - a lot depends on what stresses will be placed on your final product. In my case, the fireplace fence is attached to the floor and wall, which provide a great deal of support. In this situation, the 1/2" MT have proved to be plenty strong. If your gates are going to be hung on hinges, and thus subject to racking, you might need deeper mortises.

Another thought - if you want to stay with the 1x4 oriented "flat" but are worried about the strength of the 1/2" mortise, you could consider making through tenons, or even keyed through tenons.

Regarding the chisel questions - first, I'd love to have a swan neck chisel, but haven't yet found that I "needed" it (a fact that hardly ever stops me from buying a tool, but has in this case - at least so far...) Second, as Frank pointed out, there is no reason you can't mix imperial and metric. The size in "units" is mostly irrelevant (especially with hand tool work) it's the relative size that counts - dovetails are a perfect example of this - if the final joint is tight, the measured dimensions are not important. If you are interested, you might want to check out Chris Schwarz's writings on "tool slaving" for more on this concept.

Have fun!

[Jon Toebbe]

As others have mentioned, unless you've already got imperial, there's not reason a metric mortise chisel wouldn't do the job. MHG makes german-pattern mortise chisels that are very similar to the Two Cherries or Hirsch brand, but with imperial sizes. I've got the 1/4" and 3/8" and have been very happy with them. Just make sure you put a wide secondary bevel at ~35 degrees, and you're in business.

The backs took a good bit of flattening, and did I mention the importance of a secondary bevel? Do I just for the Ray Iles? Sure. But the MHGs get the job done at a modest price.

I'd also recommend going with 1/4-in mortises (or a close metric equivalent... 6mm or so?) in 3/4-in stock. 3/8-in mortises makes for some awfully skinny cheeks... when chopping and levering, I like a little more meat as insurance against me doing something stupid. I remember reading that advice in Woodworking Magazine right about the time I was boogering up a few workpieces with slender cheeks.

[Jim Koepke]

For starting out, a good square edged firmer chisel will do the job.

If you are going to chop a lot of deep mortises, then you would want the heavier "pig sticker."

I have a few mortise chisels bought over time. They appear to date from the late 18th century to the 19th century. They still work fine.

I have one unknown that was incorrectly described on eBay. Be careful when you buy used that you are buying what you think you are buying.

jim

[Clint Heidelberg]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to have to rethink how I want to build this so I have deeper mortises and more strength.

I had been looking at some firmers but I wasn't sure if they would hold up for hand chopping mortises. And now the hard part, making a decision on the chisels. Thanks guys for all the advice. I will let you know what I decide (don't hold your breath though:)).

Clint