Leigh "Super" FMT Jig?

[Joe Leigh]

Anyone heard of this new FMT jig from Leigh? I've seen it advertised in several wood mags but nothing on their website yet. Appears to be priced in the $450~ range.

[Mike Sandman]

There have been some excellent reviews, notably Fine Woodworking and on newwoodworker.com. There are also good user reviews on the usual sites. It's on my wish list. But the price is more like $850 at Rockler and Woodcraft.

[Al Navas]

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/superFMT.jpg

Coming out soon. Some info at my blog...


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[Mike Heidrick]

... and the price at highland is $399.

[Mike Sandman]

Ah -- the new one -- I missed that when I went to the Leigh web site. If it's as useful as the original it moves from my wish list to "let's get it" list.

Thanks for the correction.

Mike

[Jacob Mac]

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/superFMT.jpg

Coming out soon. Some info at my blog...


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Al,

What is the tradeoff with the new jig? Since Leigh just raised the price of the old FMT, I am assuming there has to be some difference in capacity or something. If they have the same capacity, why would anyone buy the old one?

I am about to buy an old FMT, so if anyone could fill me in, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

[Al Navas]

Jacob,

I do not have any more information at this point, other than "...it will have the same functionality, at a fraction of the cost..."

In just a few days we should know quite a bit more, I hope.

In the meantime, you can read a bunch of articles on the FMT at my blog - from how I have used it, to the most recent article on how to make sure we do not influence its accuracy and reproducibility.

The original FMT is a wonderful machine - my guess is that this new machine will be also be terrific!


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[Jacob Mac]

Jacob,

I do not have any more information at this point, other than "...it will have the same functionality, at a fraction of the cost..."

In just a few days we should know quite a bit more, I hope.

In the meantime, you can read a bunch of articles on the FMT at my blog - from how I have used it, to the most recent article on how to make sure we do not influence its accuracy and reproducibility.

The original FMT is a wonderful machine!


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Your blog is a big reason I am interested in the machine. It seems like a really great tool. And I am looking forward to getting one. But it seems strange that there would be two machines with the same functionality at two radically different prices.

[Al Navas]

Jacob,

I am guessing it is the manufacturing process that might hold the key. Translation: price reduction is possible, and it is likely to make the new Super FMT quite attractive. They use CNC punched steel plate for the Super FMT, instead of the much more expensive aluminum extrusions. It would make sense that they pass so much of the savings, while making the product and its capabilities so attractive.




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[Neal Clayton]

i used to have an the old one, my only complaint about it was bad clamping mechanism, and cheap plastic handles on said clamps. those clamps in the picture look alot better.

otherwise yes it worked as advertised, just not very useful when you need a square hole instead of a round one.

[Al Navas]

i used to have an the old one, my only complaint about it was bad clamping mechanism, and cheap plastic handles on said clamps. those clamps in the picture look a lot better...
Neal,

I wonder what caused your dislike of the clamping system...

I have found them to be extremely stout and reliable. The original cam-action clamps were first installed on the Leigh D4 dovetail jig. I like the clamps so well, I bought others, to assist in holding very heavy items, such as the desk leg in this photo:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/workholding-clamps.png

And also the newer bench clamps, to hold the FMT to the workbench itself:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/workholding-left-outrigger-clamp.png





... otherwise yes it worked as advertised, just not very useful when you need a square hole instead of a round one.
Maybe you could use one of several other techniques, Neal, including chopping the mortises by hand, for that matter. However, I know many people use the FMT to make the mortise, and THEN use chisels to square off the corners. This makes for a VERY quick way to get the "square hole"...:)


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[Mike Heidrick]

Al, do you have pics of the FMT jig/support for larger than 3" thick pieces by chance. They show it in teh manual. Looking for pics in person. I am doing some mortises in 3"X3".

[Al Navas]

Mike,

I am not in the shop right now - but on which page do you see the support information?

I believe the cam-action clamps go to a maximum of 3 inches thickness. I have been wrong before, and I will be wrong again...

Section 3 - 1, Clamping . I have clamped legs up to 3 inches thick, so they work fine.


e-mail sent... Oooops! Are you asking about the outrigger beams? Section 3 also. Linky: http://www.leighjigs.com/data/FMT2008-Ch3.pdf


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[Joe Leigh]

Great info Al, and I enjoyed your blog on the FMT. Seeing someone near it gives some perspective as to its size and heft. Looks like a real solid tool. I bet it would make a great Christmas gift for me!

[Neal Clayton]

Neal,

I wonder what caused your dislike of the clamping system...

I have found them to be extremely stout and reliable. The original cam-action clamps were first installed on the Leigh D4 dovetail jig. I like the clamps so well, I bought others, to assist in holding very heavy items, such as the desk leg in this photo:



And also the newer bench clamps, to hold the FMT to the workbench itself:







Maybe you could use one of several other techniques, Neal, including chopping the mortises by hand, for that matter. However, I know many people use the FMT to make the mortise, and THEN use chisels to square off the corners. This makes for a VERY quick way to get the "square hole"...:)


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mainly that the clamps needed adjustment every time a board of different thickness was put in them so that you didn't over-torque the plastic handles and pop them off (which i did about every other day).

as for the square holes, bleh. two tools to do what one can do. plus to make deep mortises, such as in a door stile, you needed to use metal cutting end mills which were not entirely stable, lets say ;). nor were they easy on a router.

like i said i didn't dislike the jig, and for furniture making and such i can see how it would be the best thing since sliced bread. but for deep mortises and those inside of cope/stick joints, a proper mortiser is a better solution. not really a cheaper solution, since a decent mortiser will be at least 800-1000 dollars, but a faster one.

[Al Navas]

Great info Al, and I enjoyed your blog on the FMT. Seeing someone near it gives some perspective as to its size and heft. Looks like a real solid tool. I bet it would make a great Christmas gift for me!
Joe,

You are welcome! If you ever need help, don't hesitate - our fellow members are always willing to help, and to offer advice, for the cost of mere electrons.

Do you need us to write to anyone special, regarding a special Xmas something or other? :D I am sure several folks might be willing to help write a draft... ;) BUT you must state clearly that have not being naughty, only nice...





...mainly that the clamps needed adjustment every time a board of different thickness was put in them so that you didn't over-torque the plastic handles and pop them off (which i did about every other day).

Truly amazing...:( I have never had this happen, except when I knew I was over-tightening on purpose... And I always must adjust a clamp, regardless of type, when I change material thickness... I am at a real loss here...:o




... as for the square holes, bleh. two tools to do what one can do. plus to make deep mortises, such as in a door stile, you needed to use metal cutting end mills which were not entirely stable, lets say ;). nor were they easy on a router.

like i said i didn't dislike the jig, and for furniture making and such i can see how it would be the best thing since sliced bread. but for deep mortises and those inside of cope/stick joints, a proper mortiser is a better solution. not really a cheaper solution, since a decent mortiser will be at least 800-1000 dollars, but a faster one.

Neal,

Please, do not take the following as criticism, but rather as an observation I make, based on over six decades living:

I always suggest that a woodworker use whatever tool or tools s/he might be most comfortable using, for the specific job at hand. And, believe me, I have mis-applied not only tools, but also technology, in my lifetime...:D
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[Jacob Mac]

I called Leigh to talk with them about the jig, and I got fairly high up the ladder. And this is what I found out:

1. the Super FMT is indeed capable of making every joint the regular FMT is capable of making;

2. the guides between the Super FMT and the regular FMT are interchangeable;

3. the router bits are interchangeable as well;

4. the clamping system is different. the Super FMT uses a proprietary f-clamp arrangement. Essentially you move the clamps to the appropriate holes that have been punched out. Moving the clamps should be fairly easy because the back of the clamp has a magnet to help register the clamp. In other words, the clamp's magnet will stick to the back of the Super FMT's clamp plate; and

5. the Super FMt is made out of CNC stamped steel.

I was told the MSRP would be $440. So, that is a significant savings. The only thing I am not clear on is why anyone would buy the regular FMT. I just do not see any benefit to it. Assuming, of course, that the Super FMT works as advertised.

[Al Navas]

Thanks, Jacob!

It is good to know that information is right :D . I am pretty certain the Super FMT will work as advertised. I will give you a shout if I can get one, and you could plan a visit - how is that? Maybe we could compare them side-by-side?

By the way, playing around with router bits and guides, it is possible to make some amazing miniatures. You might be interested in looking at the FMT Miniatures Gallery (http://www.leighjigs.com/gallery.php?pid=2&section=12), on the Leigh web site:

1. Night table and 1/12 miniature: http://www.leighjigs.com/data/_1079195972.jpg (http://www.leighjigs.com/gallery.php?pid=2&section=12)

2. Others at the following Gallery link: http://www.leighjigs.com/gallery.php?pid=2&section=12


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[Jacob Mac]

Thanks, Jacob!

It is good to know that information is right :D . I am pretty certain the Super FMT will work as advertised. I will give you a shout if I can get one, and you could plan a visit - how is that? Maybe we could compare them side-by-side?

By the way, playing around with router bits and guides, it is possible to make some amazing miniatures. You might be interested in looking at the FMT Miniatures Gallery (http://www.leighjigs.com/gallery.php?pid=2&section=12), on the Leigh web site:

1. Night table and 1/12 miniature: http://www.leighjigs.com/data/_1079195972.jpg (http://www.leighjigs.com/gallery.php?pid=2&section=12)

2. Others at the following Gallery link: http://www.leighjigs.com/gallery.php?pid=2&section=12


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Thanks for the offer. That would be great. I would really like to see how they do side by side.

[Al Navas]

Jacob,

You are on! If/when I have the Super FMT, I will let you know.

To everyone else: The invitation is open to all, if interested. Just let me know, as this would be a nice get-together, too. I am interested in getting a feel for who else may want to see the side-by-side comparison, touchy-feely.

Thank-you all!


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[Al Navas]

I apologize for not leaving a note regarding how to contact me if you are interested in the hands-on demo, with the Super FMT side-by-side with the regular FMT.

Please let me know either by PM here, or via e-mail message to sandal_woods@bbwi.net. Thanks!

To our Moderators: I think it is OK to use my e-mail address in this context. If not, please accept my apologies, and delete this post.


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[Joe Leigh]

Just saw that Highland web site is listing this new Super FMT jig available for sale in mid October. Priced at $399.00. That's less than half of the cost of the original FMT. Can't wait to hear how it performs.

[Neal Clayton]

Neal,

Please, do not take the following as criticism, but rather as an observation I make, based on over six decades living:

I always suggest that a woodworker use whatever tool or tools s/he might be most comfortable using, for the specific job at hand. And, believe me, I have mis-applied not only tools, but also technology, in my lifetime...:D
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agreed, i've misapplied lots of tools in my day as well ;).

and in my case i didn't hide the fact that i was misapplying the leigh jig for window and door mortises. it's just not really designed for that, in fact i sold it to someone on here and pointed that out when selling it. "works fine! just not really designed for what i'm using it for". the guy i sold it to was building furniture, and since i never heard back from him i suspect he's happy with it.

fwiw, i will give it the fact that it is entirely more accurate for smaller mortises than i regularly accomplish with cope cutter tenons and a chisel mortiser.

[Joe Leigh]

Bump.

Any word yet Al?

[Jacob Mac]

I'm still interested too. I would love it if this new offering does what it says it does.