Festool T15+3 drill

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

I've been searching for some good reviews on the new Li-Ion battery drills from Festool and haven't come up with much of anything.

Has anyone found any info or better yet anyone spring for one and willing to give their .02?

I'm sure its a great drill. Found a couple pics and seems small and compact like a Bosch PS40, but with a bottom mount battery.

I'm looking to replace my dying Dewalt XRP 14.4 volt drill. Now that i'm into wood working, something that fits into tight corners would be fantastic - having enough power for home remodeling projects is a must as well.

I've thought about buying a smaller Bosch PS40 and a new Makita 18volt Li-ion as well - I really don't want two drill types and batteries and charges mucking up my already small workspace though. One drill to do it all seems like a better alternative.

Any thoughts?

[Matt Meiser]

I just switched all my cordless tools, save for a Bosch 10.8V driver over to the Li-Ion M18 Series from Milwaukee.

Love them!

I've got two of the compact drills, an impact, Sawzall, circular saw, and flashlight. I also have 2 of the compact batteries and 2 full size. I bought an inital set of drill and impact with 2 compact batteries, then picked up a drill with 2 batteries practically new on Craigslist, the rest piecemeal off Ebay where there are a lot of deals on new pieces due to a package deal Home Depot had earlier this year.

[Chris Tsutsui]

One drill to do it all doesn't work for me. I like having a compact set, and a big set.

I have a 10.8V li ion makita set, and this is super compact and I use this set all the time because they are so light and comfortable.

When I need a little more power, I will use my refurbished 18V nicad hitachi set.

The cost of 4 of these is still less than one festool.

Then for backup I have a corded drill that I think is a skil or ryobi, I forgot because I never use it...

If I had money to spend and show off toys I'd get the festool stuff, but that doesn't mean I would sell my other drills just yet because I don't know which ones they would replace.

[johnny means]

Just an observation about the Festool. I don't think a right angle chuck really would help get into tight spaces. I can't ever see myself without at least a second drill, something similar to my Bosch I-drive.

The Festool is like me having a mid-size Mercedes, when I need a work truck, a commuter, and a family car. It would be great to have, but eats up the budget without filling all my needs.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Just an observation about the Festool. I don't think a right angle chuck really would help get into tight spaces. I can't ever see myself without at least a second drill, something similar to my Bosch I-drive.

The Festool is like me having a mid-size Mercedes, when I need a work truck, a commuter, and a family car. It would be great to have, but eats up the budget without filling all my needs.


That's a good way to put it, Johnny.

These 18 volt impact guns are a huge rage right now - and they are beautiful to work with! It's probably way over kill for putting cabinets together with pocket screws. Nice to have, but a standard 10v compact would suffice - and then have an 18volt standard cordless drill for medium duty. I have a corded backup and of course when things are really tough I have a rotary hammer drill...

I guess I just want to replace my Dewalt xrp...would have loved to buy one drill and get the best of both worlds - compact AND medium duty. I may have to go the Makita route and get the kit with drill and imact - $$ wise its not bad.

[Todd Bin]

I first had a el-cheapo craftsman. Would not drive a #2 screw in a #6 hole. Then I got a 14.4 V Hitachi. Great Drill. Then I came across a great deal on a Bosch combo kit and got a 18 V Bosch cordless hammer drill. What a powerhouse that was. But not something you want to do a lot of work with (HEAVY).

Then I could not resist the urge and got a Festool C12 a couple of years ago. WOW! This thing is light weight and will twist your arm off driving lag screws into 2X4's. My Bosch gave out (Fresh Battery) with 1/2" left on a 2 1/2" lag screw. Went to the garage, picked up the C12 and in the screw went.

Don't underestimate the Festool. It is direct drive and they have somehow made a 12V drill drive like a 25V drill. I could only imagive what the 15V is like. LiIon should be lighter and more powerful.

~Todd

[Joe Jensen]

Here is a review I posted on another site.

Thanks to Bob Marino for great service.

First, the systainer. It's pretty practical. Nice inserts inside that hold the chucks, charger, and extra battery. Bit storage under the drill insert, and a nice new lid with bit storage on the outside of the lid.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4387.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4388.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4389.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4390.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4391.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4392.jpg

Now the drill and comparisons to the Bosch PS20 mini driver and PS30 mini drill. The Bosch PS20 is a very small driver. The diameter of the motor housing on the PS20 is a little smaller than the T15+3. The batter of the PS20 fits insde the handle, and the battery of the T15+3 is much larger and fits below the handle. There is no comparison of torque, but many are familiar with the size of the PS20 and PS30 so here are pics.

First, the PS20 with integral chuck. The Festool can take bits inside the motor spindle, but they are not held by magnet or ball detent, so that would be a last resort method.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4393.jpg

Now the PS20 versus the Festool with the Centrotec chuck. The Centrotec chuck holds Centrotec bits or bit extensions. The bits fit very securely and are a great option, but they are very expensive, $8.50 each, and they have limited heads supported.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4397.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4398.jpg

Here is the Festool compared to the Bosch PS30 mini drill. I put the Festool drill chuck in to make the comparison fair. Overall, the diameter of the motor housings and the overall length from chuck to back are very similar.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4394.jpg

Here is the Bosch PS30 on top of the Festool. They are very similar in size not counting the battery. Again, the Festool has much higher torque so one has to accept a larger battery.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4395.jpg

Bits, just some pics of the bits. I was surprised at how well the short locking extenstion from Festool works. It has a neodium magnet inside, and it locks both wide detent bits and ball detent bits very securely. The Centrotec bits don't wobble at all, due to the long shank in the drill. The extension is like this, and it holds bits in it's end better then all the non-Festool extensions I have. At $26.50, it was crazy expensive, but awesome. I included a pic of the cool extension, and a Centrotec bit, each installed in the Centrotec chuck.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4403.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4401.jpg

Last is a pic of a Centrotec Philips #2 bit, and the short extension and a Festool wire detent bit.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/Festool%20Drill/_NIK4399.jpg

I didn't include photos of the other chucks. I was pleasantly surprised that the offset chuck, a priamary reason for getting the Festool drill, has the bit locking mechanism like the locking extension. It doesn't take Centrotec bits, but rather it is designed for wire detent and ball detent bits.

Overall, I'm trilled

[johnny means]

Don't underestimate the Festool. It is direct drive and they have somehow made a 12V drill drive like a 25V drill. I could only imagive what the 15V is like. LiIon should be lighter and more powerful.

~Todd

I don't think anyone is underestimating the Festool, but one has to recognize that compromises have to be made when engineering this type of tool. The range of duty loads that the term drill includes is huge. One might need to drive jewelry sized screws in the morning then be boring 2 inch holes in 12" thick masonry the same day.

To think one tool could cover this range isn't realistic, with our current technology. Even Festool, by making 4 models, admits that you may need more than one drill.

The OP was trying to find one drill to cover any home remodeling needs and fit into tight spaces. When they invent that drill I'll give them $3000 for it and not flinch.

[Scott T Smith]

I first had a el-cheapo craftsman. Would not drive a #2 screw in a #6 hole. Then I got a 14.4 V Hitachi. Great Drill. Then I came across a great deal on a Bosch combo kit and got a 18 V Bosch cordless hammer drill. What a powerhouse that was. But not something you want to do a lot of work with (HEAVY).

Then I could not resist the urge and got a Festool C12 a couple of years ago. WOW! This thing is light weight and will twist your arm off driving lag screws into 2X4's. My Bosch gave out (Fresh Battery) with 1/2" left on a 2 1/2" lag screw. Went to the garage, picked up the C12 and in the screw went.

Don't underestimate the Festool. It is direct drive and they have somehow made a 12V drill drive like a 25V drill. I could only imagive what the 15V is like. LiIon should be lighter and more powerful.

~Todd

+1. I too have a Festool C12 and it is my favorite drill for woodworking. The offset chucks are great when you need them too (they have saved my bacon more than once!).

I also have some Makita cordless drills and drivers (including the LI), and both 18V as well as 28V Milwaukee drills. But the Festool is by far my favorite.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Looking at your pics (thanks for posting, BTW!) I am surprised at how small the drill is. Seems like a good mid size. With that size LI-Ion battery and the Festool's new generation of motor, I'm betting that drill will plow 1" spade bits through 4x4's with ease.

Man, the only downsize I'm seeing is the clunky battery. But you state the attachments work well and help drive in tight places?

Thanks for all the input, guys. Guess I'll have to head over to Woodcraft this week and man-handle the thing just to see.

I guess I'm still not sure what I'll end up doing. The Makita combo package of drill and impact seems like a good way to go: small impact for tight spots and a drill for most of the average remodeling grunt work.

[Scott T Smith]

[QUOTE=JohnMorgan of Lititz;1219227] But you state the attachments work well and help drive in tight places?

[QUOTE]

John, re the attachments - yes they work great. Two weeks ago I had to install a counter top on a bathroom cabinet. The offset driver allowed me to use an extra long bit to install the screws w/o having to remove the upper drawer slide rails. I would have had to done another 30 minutes of disassembly / reassembly had it not been for the offset head.

Two weeks before that I needed to remove some broken bolts from the side of an engine block - in the car. I used the 90 degree angle head, along with some left-handed twist drill bits to back the bolts out of the block. There was only about 6" of working space, up over my head and reaching around some other components. No other tool that I have could have removed those broken bolts.

If you ever work on "non-standard" projects, it's amazing what you can do with with the drill and it's accessories.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

John, re the attachments - yes they work great. Two weeks ago I had to install a counter top on a bathroom cabinet. The offset driver allowed me to use an extra long bit to install the screws w/o having to remove the upper drawer slide rails. I would have had to done another 30 minutes of disassembly / reassembly had it not been for the offset head.

Two weeks before that I needed to remove some broken bolts from the side of an engine block - in the car. I used the 90 degree angle head, along with some left-handed twist drill bits to back the bolts out of the block. There was only about 6" of working space, up over my head and reaching around some other components. No other tool that I have could have removed those broken bolts.

If you ever work on "non-standard" projects, it's amazing what you can do with with the drill and it's accessories.

Good to know they do work well. I could probably be sold on the festool setup, even given the extra cost. I'll definately have to check it out. I'll call the extra money a "reward" for the thousands I saved by doing the kitchen remodel on my own! Good justification, right? :)

Thanks again for the input. I probably won't post up my final results if I go the festool route - seems to be way too many naysayers who believe people that buy Festools are in it for the "look at me" factor - I'm sure they thumb their noses at BMW's and Audi's as they drive to work in thier Honda civic, too. :) Wait, my wife drives a civic... lol.

Thanks again, all!

[Dan Clark]

I love it and think it's easily worth the money. The T15 is even nicer. I've used all of the attachments in some very odd situations where nothing else would work.

One thing that is not obvious about the Festool drills and battery chargers is that they are heat-protected. If the drill overheats, it simply shuts down and beeps at you, telling you that it is too hot and you need to let it cool.

If the battery is too hot and you plug it into the charger, the charger will display a red, flashing light, telling you that the battery is too hot. It will keep flashing the red light until the battery cools down and then it will automatically start charging the battery.

Are there any downsides to the C12? Other than the NiCad battery (a minus for some folks), there is one that all drills share - when screwing in lag screws it transmits the torque to your wrist. That's tough on the wrist. I have a Makita impact driver to deal with big screws. Unlike a drill, an impact driver transmits very little torque to your wrist.

Regards,

Dan.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

I love it and think it's easily worth the money. The T15 is even nicer. I've used all of the attachments in some very odd situations where nothing else would work.

One thing that is not obvious about the Festool drills and battery chargers is that they are heat-protected. If the drill overheats, it simply shuts down and beeps at you, telling you that it is too hot and you need to let it cool.

If the battery is too hot and you plug it into the charger, the charger will display a red, flashing light, telling you that the battery is too hot. It will keep flashing the red light until the battery cools down and then it will automatically start charging the battery.

Are there any downsides to the C12? Other than the NiCad battery (a minus for some folks), there is one that all drills share - when screwing in lag screws it transmits the torque to your wrist. That's tough on the wrist. I have a Makita impact driver to deal with big screws. Unlike a drill, an impact driver transmits very little torque to your wrist.

Regards,

Dan.

A buddy of mine has and loves his C12. He's now finally killed the batteries about 5 years later after using in his cabinet shop. I was considering the C12, but didn't want to simply because Li-ion is wayyy better technology and they are not discounting the C12 as a closeout. They need to switch the C12 over to Li=ion, it seems.

I rarely have a use for lags, but would be able to cope with it if I ever need them.

[Peter Kuhlman]

I would disagree with the statement that the T15 can't be the all purpose tool. It has a really nice electronic clutch if that is the right term. Yesterday, I was driving screws into particle board shelving. Drove 2 1/2" #10s, 2" #8s, 1/2" #4s. With the variable clutch, I could easily control the depth and the overdriving of the screws. I really expected to strip the small screws as did not have much biting surface but no issues at all when set at a 1 setting. Increased it to 14 and drove the large screws again with no problem although the screws screamed while going in! Still had lots of additional torque available. No pre-drilling of holes. There is a setting for drilling and driving that somehow works electronically and it really works well. The electronic controls are a major step up from my C12 - so much so that I recently sold it. Wish I could desribe the T15 better in engineering terminology. With the various chucks, there is virtually nothing it can't do. Yea - it is very expensive and there are many other drills out there - and I have several others including Panasonic and Makita that I like but not in the same league. I can now just keep my impact and my little Bosch and really simplify my tool inventory.

[Dan Clark]

A buddy of mine has and loves his C12. He's now finally killed the batteries about 5 years later after using in his cabinet shop. I was considering the C12, but didn't want to simply because Li-ion is wayyy better technology and they are not discounting the C12 as a closeout. They need to switch the C12 over to Li=ion, it seems.

I rarely have a use for lags, but would be able to cope with it if I ever need them.
Regarding the C12 vs T15, I agree with you completely. If my C12 went out, I'd get the T15.

Regarding lag screws, I used my C12 on 3-1/2" X 5/16" lag screws - pretty decent size. If the wood is old and hard, the C12 will struggle a bit unless you pre-drill. (I did mention that that it can usually handle big lag screws WITHOUT pre-drilling, didn't I?) So the issue is not the drill, but the torque on your wrist.

While sistering (glue and screw method) some 18 ft joists, I had to screw in 65 to 70 3" X 5/16" lag screws in a very short period of time - before the adhesive started filming over. The C12 was up to it; my wrist was not. By the 60th screw wrist started failing and I had to hold the drill with two hands.

Conversely, with my 18V Makita impact driver, I can install big lag screws all day long and my wrist feels nothing. I use my C12 over 90% of the time, but... When I need one, my impact driver is wonderful!

FYI, here's a pic of a sister-joist with 3" X 5/16" lag screws installed 1/2 way, ready for the adhesive (4 tubes per joist) to be applied: http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/db2abd386e784b0f889c3875f0a93d15/assets/16c2eb5bba9344b4abc66f21db48152e. Notice the Torx bit screw heads and the small space between the screaw head and adjacent joist. The C12 is one of few drivers that will set a screw in this situation. My Makita impact driver could also fit and would have saved me lots of grief. Both are great tools, but the impact driver is the tool of choice for this situation.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. when I tried Phillips head lag screws in this situation, 90% cammed out. With square drive, 40-50% cammed out. The Torx head was the only one that didn't cam out.

p.p.s. I wish they'd come out with a C12 battery kit. I'd buy one!

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Dan,

No doubt, that situation there would certainly allow the impact driver to shine. Especially that many screws, run in that deep.

I'm not sure why they wouldn't come out with a battery kit for the C12. Actually, I'll bet they'll update it with the new motor. Seems the T15 have a next generation motor from the C12.

The T15 charger is apparently backward compatible with the old batteries...guess that's a plus.

All this tool talk has me jones-ing to get to Woodcraft on Thursday night to at least handle the T15 and tempt myself with its snobbish German glory. :)

[Bob Marino]

Oh, I am pretty sure that when a new C12 is released, it will have all the upgrades - motor, battery, clutch, etc., that the T drills now have.

Bob

[Peter Kuhlman]

So Bob - - - is that comment just a teaser of something coming soon??? :D

[Bob Marino]

So Bob - - - is that comment just a teaser of something coming soon??? :D

Hey Pete,

Nah, no teasing, I think it just follows Festool's way of doing business - incorporate newer technologies into all models. I just wouldn't be surprised to see a new C12 version in a year or so.

Bob