2" Rounder plane for Log Bed Tenons?

[Matt Rogers]

This is my first post, and I don't normally post to forums that much, but I am really tired of getting "the look" at the local hardware stores, home centers, and antique malls. (You know the look...the "what-are-you-talking-about-it's-2009-not-1809-you-idiot" look....)

I am planning on making a log bed frame in king size, and I would like to cut the tenons by hand with a draw knife and a spokeshave, then finish them to 2" with a rounder plane. I have a plan for a 1 inch plane form the Woodwright's Shop website, and I scaled it up a bit to make a 2 inch version.

My questions, before I build an unwieldy or impossible to use tool, is this:

1. Is this the 'right' way to make these tenons?

2. Are there any sources for new or used 2" rounder planes, was such a tool even made? I think pictures of an existing one would help me make my own.

3. Are the Veritas Power Tenon Cutters mounted in a brace the best way to go here?

I appreciate the help,
--Matt Rogers
Grand Haven, MI

[Sean Hughto]

I've never seen a 2" one, but for what it's worth:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-IROUND.XX&Category_Code=&Search=rounding

And Elia might make you one to order/custom:

http://www.handtoolwoodworking.com/tools.html

As far as the "right" way, I suppose it's a matter of whatever works, but I have to ask, why do the tenons have to be round? If you made them square, you wouldn't need any special tools.

[Sean Hughto]

Also, if you take your time, you can make a very accurate round shape with shaves, rasps, and files.

[Matt Rogers]

Sean,

Thanks for the information. I would like to make the tenons round, but I am not hard and set on that right now. I guess it is an artistic preference more than anything else.

I will take a look at the link you sent me and see what they would charge for a 2" rounder.

Thanks again for the help! I appreciate it!

--Matt Rogers

[harry strasil]

Rounders not hard to make, look at a spoke tenoner, and then make one out of wood with a handle on each side, the position of the blade is the important part.

[Ted Calver]

What?? Harry, you don't have a spoke tenoner to show us?? :) :)

[harry strasil]

puter sick, am on itty bitty laptop

[harry strasil]

This tenoner shows the cutter placement the best.

[Matt Rogers]

Harry,
That is a pretty cool looking gadget you have there. I am assuming that the tenon must be roughed out and that the tenon cutter simply shaves it down to a final size. Is that right?
--Matt Rogers

[harry strasil]

you use a spoke pointer to put a blunt point similar to a pencil on the end,then using a brace with a tenoner in it, you cut the tenon to fit in a hole in one of the felloes or on a buggy wheel, a rim, buggies and some light wagons had 2 piece bent rims instead of sectional pieces called felloes.

[harry strasil]

actually a rounder just finishes a tenon, while a tenoner cuts it without a lot of preperation to get it close to size.

[Matt Rogers]

Then I am looking for a tenoner! I think I like the "without a lot of preparation" part....

It seems that my projects tend to go better when there are fewer steps in which to introduce error. My skill level is just not that high yet....

Thanks again! Anybody know where I can get a good deal on a tenoner?

--Matt Rogers

[harry strasil]

Sorry, I don't think they makem that big. I never seen one that big anyway.

[Matt Rogers]

Harry,
Figures. I am always the guy looking for something that doesn't exist....

I think that the Veritas ones will be the choice for me.

Does anyone have any experience with them?

--Matt Rogers

[Sean Hughto]

A $109 item that makes rounded shoulders and is really intended for rustic/green wood stick and branch type furniture? Sounds pretty - uh - not the best alternative - to me. Oh, and do you have a drill with at least a 1/2" chuck to drive that beast?

Perhaps I don't really understand your design concept. Are you planning to use regular boards and assemble a head and foot board connected by long side boards? Are these tenons meant to attach stretchers to posts and sideboards to posts? Do you realize they make bed bolts that do some of these jobs very well and make it easy to disasseble the bed if you move?

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=12&filter=bed%20hardware

[Matt Rogers]

Sean,
I am thinking of using logs, just debarked and air dried. They would still be round and, since I am not really experienced with a draw knife, I need a way to cut the tenons in the ends that is "easy". I thought that the round "pencil sharpener" type tenon cutters would be the easiest way to go, I have a drill that would spin one already. You also mentioned cutting them square with the draw knife and then rasping them down, and that is still a viable option too!

Thanks for the help!
--Matt

[harry strasil]

U could use a hole saw on the very end to get the diameter and the roundness you need, then saw down with a hand saw to approx that edge and split the waste off with a chisel, also if you are flexible take a piece of iron pipe put a chamfer on the outside of one end, and drive it down over the tenon and chip off the waste. Just drill a hole thru the pipe on the driven end so you can insert some sort of rod to screw it off afterwards, and drill the mortice coressponding tothe tenon size.

[Matt Rogers]

Now you're talkin'! I like that idea, it keeps it simple, saves me from having to buy a specialty tool, and would probably be a good way to learn the draw knife a little more.

--Matt

[Caspar Hauser]

Is this the thing?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200324603_200324603

[Matt Rogers]

Caspar,
That is one of the options that I am considering. It sounds like most of the guys here like this idea the best, is that about right?
Anybody cut many big tenons with a draw knife? Got any pointers?
--Matt

[Harlan Barnhart]

Caspar,
That is one of the options that I am considering. It sounds like most of the guys here like this idea the best, is that about right?
Anybody cut many big tenons with a draw knife? Got any pointers?
--Matt
Sort of... something similar. You will amaze yourself with what you can do with a draw knife. Rough out the tenon oversized and then take it down a little at a time. With practice the eye is amazingly accurate. Mr. Strasil's idea of a hole saw sounds like a good idea, especially if you can use one that is about 1/8" oversized.

[Matt Rogers]

I think that I will try to have a go with the draw knife. I think that I can make a nice square tenon that will take a wedge pretty easily. We'll see, I suppose!
--Matt Rogers

[Caspar Hauser]

I saw this and thought it might be of interest

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/howto/images/e2104Rounderplane.pdf

[Matt Rogers]

Caspar,
I scaled that one up and came up with a huge block of wood and a chunk of steel for the blade. Still might be a viable option though.
I think that I am going to try to hack my own tenons with a drawknife and see what happens.
--Matt

[Pam Niedermayer]

Just because the logs are round doesn't mean the joinery has to also be round.

Pam

[Matt Rogers]

Pam,
I think I am going to try to make square tenons with the drawknife too. Round ones seem like they would be good for "the next project"....
--Matt

[Pam Niedermayer]

Off hand, without seeing exactly what you're proposing, I'd say that it's easier to do rectangular tenons with deft saw work.

Pam

[Matt Rogers]

Pam,
That makes sense too. I have a saw! The problem is the "deft" part.....my skills are still not quite there....dAft yes....dEft, notsomuch....

Lots of good ideas here from everyone, I really appreciate it.

Anyone else have any thought that they would like to share on log bed joinery?

--Matt Rogers

[Pam Niedermayer]

You'll be plenty deft about half way through. :)

Pam