Been turning a little more and now have a bunch of questions

[Stephen Saar]

I've been practicing turning some more and I had a few questions about turning that hopefully some of you might be willing to answer.

1. What's the best cheap wood to practice bowls with? I tried using dimensional lumber (1x6s) and gluing them together to create a blank roughly 5.5"x5.5"x5.5", but turning it on the lathe is proving difficult. The wood seems to be too weak for my crappy skills so I almost always end up breaking off the wood at the base where my chuck is holding it when I start to hollow out the bowl portion. I've been buying some bowl blanks at Rockler, WoodCrafters, and Highland Hardware, but for just doing practice bowls (since I often screw things up) I don't like spending much money for a bowl blank.

2. I still seem to be having trouble with my bowl gouge. I try to use the edge just to the right of the tip, but when trying to hollow out the bowl section it tends to bounce around. I attached a picture of the grind on my bowl gouge to see if anyone thought I should change it. I try to present the tool using a 45 degree x 45 degree angle. So I angle the tool by 45 degrees relative to the work piece, then I turn the handle 45 degrees so basically just the tip (actually the right side of the tip) is touching the work piece.

3. When I took my bowl turning class the instructor said that you shouldn't use the left side of the gouge. I think he meant only when hollowing out the bowl portion, but I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't be able to use the left side of the gouge. Any thoughts?

4. Everyone seems to rough turn their bowls when the wood is still green then wait for it to dry. Why is this?

5. I went to the local AAW turners meeting and one of the guys said he used the soap method of drying his bowls. This is where he took a 50/50 mixture of soap and water and left the bowls in there for 2-3 days and then let them dry for 3 weeks. This seemed very strange to me and I can't figure out why soaking them in a highly concentrated soap solution would help them dry, and help them from cracking.

6. I also read people refer to 2 other terms I'm not familiar with. CA glue which from googling appears to be this stuff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate) for preventing cracks from expanding or for filling in voids, but I wanted to make sure. Also I keep on seeing people refer to DNA drying, but I can't seem to find any information on what the process actually is. I Googling and it appears to be DeNatured Alcohol, but again I wasn't sure.

I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future, but I'm hoping some of you might be able to answer these.

Thanks.

-Stephen

[David Christopher]

Stephen, I think you can get your skills up by using green wood ( its easier to cut than dry wood ) ....see if you can get a green piece and try that..I think you will find it easier than 1X6s.

CA glue is just super glue....and it is good for fixing cracks and splits

DNA is denatured alcohol....after you turn a green blank to rough dimensions soak in DNA ( I put mine overnight) let set for a couple of weeks in a brown bag then finish turn

this is just my way of doing things..Im sure there will be others that will tell their way ( more than one way to shin a cat)
hope this helps

[Harlan Coverdale]

Yep. that's a bunch of questions. Good ones, though.

1. Free wood is the best practice wood. Find neighbors who are removing trees, or hook up with a three trimming service. And see #4 below.

2. Your profile looks OK. I'd suggest finding another turner (aside from your earlier instructor) who can give you a little hands-on bowl gouge coaching. The group at the AAW meetings should have some likely candidates.

3. I think your instructor was mistaken, or perhaps you mis-heard what he said. You will use both sides of the gouge, depending on where and how you're cutting.

4. Green wood is WAY easier to cut, and more fun to turn. You have to deal with the drying aspect, but it's still easier and less expensive that buying bowl blanks at Rockler.

5. Don't really know how the soap soaking works, but a number of turners swear by it.

6. Yep, DNA is denatured alcohol. Here again, I'm not sure how it works, but it's the method I use and it seems to speed up the drying and reduce the number of cracks for me. Others will swear there's no way on earth it can make any difference. It's a subject that's often the cause of debates.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Stephen - questions are what we are here for! When you first start out - you have lots of them. After you've been here for a little while - you get to help answer them!

Turning wood really depends on where you are located. I live in the U.P. and can find turning wood right outside my back door. Folks in the city have a much rougher time finding wood and usually make friends with the local tree trimming services.

Best thing I can suggest for how to use your bowl gouge is to pick up Bill Grumbine's DVD - Turned Bowls Made Easy. It has everything you need to know from how to process the green wood - to how to get the most out of a bowl gouge. You have a good start on the 45/45 rule - but Bill shows you how to use the 45/45/45 rule and it does make a difference.

#3 - if you use the left side of your gouge when hollowing a bowl that means you are pulling the gouge from the center out to the edge of the bowl. That also means you are cutting against the grain and will experience a large amount of tear out and quite a few catches - when you are first starting out.

#4 Green wood is wood freshly cut. It is very easy to turn but will shrink and warp when it dries. When we rough out a bowl - we leave it 10% of the diameter size to make sure we have enough wood left so when we finish turn the bowl we can get rid of any warp and make it round again.

Drying bowls with soap or DNA is just another way to try and slow down the drying process so the blank will not crack. I have no experience with the soap method but suggest you check this out for info on the DNA: http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=turning&file=articles_473.shtml

Looks like you found the correct info for CA glue. I use it to fill cracks on bowls and hollow forms. Works great - just make sure you don't get on your fingers when it runs!

Someone else should kick in with some info for you... and if you have any more questions - be sure to ask!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Stephan you got some good advice and will add a couple of things. First I agree that you should get Bill Grumbines Turned Bowls Made Easy and Mike Mahoney's From The Tree To The Table. I am self taught and these were the only DVD's I used. Both are excellent and will show you how to turn a bowl inside and out. I think I have watched both at least a half dozen times each. On the DNA I do use it with excellent success. I soak my green bowls after roughing them to 10% thickness (the bowl walls 10% of the diameter of the blank) for 2 to 5 days. Most woods 2 to 3 days and fruit woods for 5 days. I can honestly say I haven't lost a bowl since I started using it. Yes I have had a few with minor cracks but that is where the CA glue comes in. I also agree with finding someone other than your first instructor and work with them.

One more thing is I would like to see some more pic's of your bowl gouge from different angle. I can't really tell from the pic's you have there but not sure about your bevel.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

The last and only time I ever went out to the local county dump there was so much amazingly good green wood rotting out there it was enough to make me cry. I didn't take any as I was in a small car and didn't have any way to really transport the pieces I was seeing. But it put in my mind that I really ought to go back with a truck and get a years supply. I saw black walnut, elm of at least 2 varieties, and enough other varieties I couldn't identify other than to know they weren't pine that well I want to go back to the dump. :)

It is worth a thought. I have turned a bunch of dimensional lumber and it is actually good practice wood. You hit it right on the head tho. Bad technique, dull tools, too much pressure etc... and you get an amazing amount of tear-out. Stuff you could never ever sand out. But that is actually good news, even GREAT news!

Because you now have a clear picture of what doesn't work. And that is as good a place as any to start. So we move onto the next phase. Instead of trying to make a perfect bowl from the lumber try to make some perfect cuts. Just keep playing with sharpening, tool cutting angles and various techniques for riding the bevel, etc...

I did this at the behest of Bernie and Ken. I started with spindle work and the skew and spindle gouges. And before I knew it I was making perfectly clean non-torn out cuts with both tools regardless of angles. Cheap 2x2 pine and I was getting polished smooth cuts. I do the same with with hardwoods and I spend only second sanding these pieces as nothing more is needed.

I went back to my bowl gouge and practiced those styles of cuts. Same thing happened only much faster. I had learned a great deal. It is seriously amazing how proper sharpness and tool control makes sanding almost obsolete. So don't give up. Don't buy expensive wood. Just learn, and this is the hard part, to see this practice as still fun and valuable in the long run and enjoy playing with dimensional lumber. I did and I still love the practice part of it. Because I can play with odd cuts and angles and if it destroys the piece of wood instead of seeing $40 laying on the floor, I laugh, try to figure out what I just did wrong, and I see as most $1.50 laying on the floor.

So some more practical advice from someone who loves turning and learning:

1- For bowls and practice. I went out and got a Pine/Fir 4x4 (I don't remember which but I do know it was not pressure treated!!!). I cut it off at a rough cube of size 4x4x4. (Give or take using the typical loss for "finished" lumber.) Make sure to get face grain, going across not "at you", and started between centers. I cut a deep deep tenon in it for grabbing on the chuck. And then I did so. One thing I learned was don't squeeze so hard you crush the tenon. That really helps it break off. Plus you don't need that much force. Then start turning the outside to a bowl shape. Don't plan to reverse it and hollow. Again you aren't making a bowl you are just practicing cuts. Then keep turning it until you are no longer feeling safe about the distance from the chuck jaws. You can cut for a long long time since there is not need to keep it big enough to hollow. Doing this seriously worked wonders for me. I basically never get tear out on anything anymore. Pine is so bad at that that if you can master cuts that work for it they work for everything else.

2- Second step? Do the same for the inside. Start between centers, make the tenon, reverse and chuck it up. For safety sake I round the outside to a cylinder, no whirling corners of death, and then start turning the inside into a bowl. I start in the middle and practice getting deeper and wider slowly with nice smooth cuts. Again trying to learn not to tear our, get catches, etc... It is amazing what a bit of seriously cheap practice will do for you.

I don't recall exactly what I paid for the 4x4x10 that I bought. Maybe $12 or so. But I have about 3' of it left now. So you can figure out how many small practice bowls I made to test cuts on.

3- When I got all done with that I wanted to practice some larger things. One thing the 4x4 isn't good for is wide shallow bowls. I switched over to a 2x12 board. Make sure it has no cracks as you are good. I cut it so I had blanks that were 2x12x12 (again count on the slight loss in size etc...) I had to cut the corners on the bandsaw as the HF lathe I had at the time wouldn't swing a 12" square blank. Once round I started with the same type of techniques and then quickly switched to actually making some real pine bowls, platters, etc... with the wood. All the cuts carried over and it is great fun that is cheap and pretty much worry free.

4- They do still occasionally break. Always wear a face shield etc... I have never been bonked but that is mostly luck rather than skill. Be careful and don't get hurt.

Hope this helps,
Joshua

[Kyle Iwamoto]

+1 on faceshield. I try to ALWAYS turn with it on. On less risky turnings, such as finish turning, I sometimes use just safety glasses, but IMO a face shield is always SMART.

While I'm on the safety bandwagon, get a good dust mask. Not those paper POS ones, at least a half face respirator. They're not terribly expensive. Your lungs, however, are.

What sharpener do you have? From the pic your gouge looks like it could use more sweep and angle.

Just my .02.

[Rob Cunningham]

Free wood is the best to practice on. Look for tree trimmers working in your area and ask them if you could have some of the wood. I would suggest hard woods as opposed something like pine. Look along the side of the road as you drive, it's amazing what you can find.
I have an Ellsworth bowl gouge and use the left side tip of the gouge only for fine interior finishing cuts. I'm still trying to master this technique:o.
Ron Kent, from Hawaii, developed the soap soaking method. I tried it once on some dry ash and it did help it cut better. Here's a link that explains his process.
http://www.ronkent.com/techniques.php
I've been using the DNA method most of the time and it has worked very well.
The face shield is a very good idea, wear safety glasses also along with the shield.
Good luck

[Mark P. Brown]

I am a new turner also. For cheep/free wood call the city information desk they can tell you where the city dumps their wood and also if the tree trimmers also dump there. Call the wood lots that sell firewood they can tell you the names of several people who cut and sell firewood. The wood cutters run across burls quite often and might set it aside in trade for a finished piece.
Mark