Pawnshop Shavers

[william scott]

I bought these two little planes a bit over a week ago at a Pawnshop. I haven't had time to sharpen or true them up but I just couldn't stand not seeing how well they work. Both of them came out of toolboxes and look to have been used often. So, I just brought home a redwood plank to use for various projects, and one edge is pretty chewed up. That was the test edge and the little planes did quite well.

The plane on the left has '102' and a Stanley sweetheart blade. Nice, fine shavings and I can almost get a rounded over shape from this little 'low angle' plane. As small as it is I wondered if it would be hard to use, but it's actually quite comfortable.

The plane on the right is a Seagant, probably a '3', with adjustable blade angle and an adjustable throat. The front of the sole has a little square that can be removed for really coarse work. I really like the way you can work with the blade angle, depth and throat opening to get just the right amount of wood coming off. (Those are actual shavings from those two little planes and you can see the rounded off edge to the left of the 102).

These two planes, with four rat-tail files of various sizes and shapes, cost me $10. I think I did alright, and I'm looking forward to really getting these little planes in top shape. It's amazing what you can find in pawn shops!

Anybody else find something interesting this weekend?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/loneviking/Twopawnshopplanes.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

William,
Welcome to the Creek.

Nothing found this weekend, at least not woodworking stuff, my wife took me to a gem and mineral show. I let her spend a lot so she won't be able to nix my next tool buy.

Did find a 604 not to long ago, also at a pawn shop. It's a small world, no?

I did not know Sargent made a plane with an adjustable blade angle. Can you post some pictures of the workings of this plane? I only have a couple of Sargent planes and know very little about their line of planes.

jim

[william scott]

I'll see what kind of pictures I can get tomorrow of the little Seargant plane. Basically, there is a wheel with a small lever on it, and when you turn the wheel, the blade is tipped up or down. The thumb wheel travels up and down a little bolt and the lever raises or lowers the blade. There is also a lever at the top of the blade that can turn the blade side to side. The blade has a number of grooves on the back that sit on a little catch, and that's how you set the depth. If the depth and/or angle reduce the throat too much, then you unscrew the nob on the front of the plane and adjust that little square to give you the size throat you need.

[Matt Ranum]

Well I came up with a couple things at an estate sale.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/mr_matt3764/091909_150900.jpg
The mitre box is a Stanley 2358 with the original Disston 28" backsaw. It appears to be complete from what I can tell and hasn't seen tons of use. The rollers in the guides spin nice and free yet too. I'm guessing this is from the '50's. Paid $17 for it.



http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/mr_matt3764/091909_150901.jpg
This is an almost new Stanley 12-220 block plane and paid $8.

Oh and a dovetail saw with a straight handle they had matched with a smaller mitre box for $4 but I forget to take a pic of that. Must have not used it since it was sharpened as all the teeth are covered with dip coating.

[George Sanders]

I went to a sale yesterday and picked up 3 block planes and of course some other stuff. I bought the 3 planes and a knife for $7. The planes are: 9 1/4, 9 1/2, and a 60 1/2 low angle. I hate that the previous owner sprayed red paint on them but the blades are all good and the mechanisms all work. There were a pair of Stanley trammel points in a flat of glasing points with a point setting tool that I wanted. Got the flat for $2. Had to dig out some money for the 6 Buck Brothers lathe chisels. Those cost me $25.:rolleyes:

[Jim Koepke]

The planes being painted may actually be a good sign. People working in cabinet shops, furniture shops or other woodworking professions often do this to mark tools for owner identification.

These may have been owned by a professional who tuned them up for you.

jim

[George Sanders]

Jim, I think you're right about marking for ownership; but craftsman, no. I just spent the afternoon at my bench sharpening out the grinder marks in the blades, some of which were pretty deep. I used a honing jig and a large oil stone to even the blades and then scary sharp to finish them up.

[Richard Dooling]

William, yes please post some pics of the little Sargent plane. That looks very interesting. There are a number of good resources for the Stanley Bailey products but less for the Sargent, Union etc.

.

[william scott]

William, yes please post some pics of the little Sargent plane. That looks very interesting. There are a number of good resources for the Stanley Bailey products but less for the Sargent, Union etc.

.

Here's the pics of the little adjusting lever with the blade tipped over to the side:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/loneviking/sargentplanemechanism.jpg

The piece that the blade sits on is on a pin. The back of that has the lever with the 'U' shape on it that fits onto the wheel. The wheel is on a threaded post. Turn the wheel up, the blade is raised up. Turn it down, and the blade is lowered.

Some of you guys have been making some good scores this week. I was surprised to see someone else found Lathe turning tools. My wife picked up a 5 piece Craftsman set, never used with the papers still on the end and in the box for $20.

I really like those old steel Miter boxes and full paneled saws. I grew up around an uncle who was a contractor and used this setup a lot. It brings back memories.

And three block planes for $7? You stole 'em! Now, go see how well they operate and get 'em tuned up right. It's fun to get new tools to play with for a song. Especially if they turn out to work very well for what you need!! :D

[David Myers]

Here's the pics of the little adjusting lever with the blade tipped over to the side:



The piece that the blade sits on is on a pin. The back of that has the lever with the 'U' shape on it that fits onto the wheel. The wheel is on a threaded post. Turn the wheel up, the blade is raised up. Turn it down, and the blade is lowered.



Here's a link to a post of mine from last year. My blade is on the short side, but I've learned to work around it.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=96739

[william scott]

Hey, you do have the same plane! Wow, the blade that you have was (is) really used up. Did you ever find a source for a new blade? The blade on mine is in real good shape but it would be nice to have a spare. I have a feeling I'm going to be using this little plane quite a bit.

[Jim Koepke]

The piece that the blade sits on is on a pin. The back of that has the lever with the 'U' shape on it that fits onto the wheel. The wheel is on a threaded post. Turn the wheel up, the blade is raised up. Turn it down, and the blade is lowered.

That looks pretty much like the adjuster used on the early Stanley/Bailey block planes.
I am not sure it changes the angle of the blade's bedding. It does extend or retract the blade.

Of course, if wrong, this would not be my first time.

jim

[Sam Takeuchi]

That is a depth adjuster like old Stanley block planes'. I think that's what he meant by raising and lowering the blade.

[william scott]

That looks pretty much like the adjuster used on the early Stanley/Bailey block planes.
I am not sure it changes the angle of the blade's bedding. It does extend or retract the blade.

Of course, if wrong, this would not be my first time.

jim

I could be wrong too, but I don't see the blade moving in or out with the movement of the wheel. I just see the back of the blade going up or down. Then again, this might not be the blade that is supposed to be on this plane. Whatever the case, I have a blade that I can tip up or down which makes planing quite a bit easier!

[Sam Takeuchi]

I think you have to lower the wheel. if the blade is going up and down, that means lateral screw on the blade is resting on the U shaped part and the pin isn't engaged in the blade slot. If you screw the wheel all the way down and blade is in retract position, it's fine. You then turn the wheel to raise the wheel until blade extends to your desired amount. If your lever cap is tight and keep raising the wheel while until blade is lifted, either lever scrap screw or lever cap will be shot. It's like prying them open with a vise.

[william scott]

I think you have to lower the wheel. if the blade is going up and down, that means lateral screw on the blade is resting on the U shaped part and the pin isn't engaged in the blade slot. If you screw the wheel all the way down and blade is in retract position, it's fine. You then turn the wheel to raise the wheel until blade extends to your desired amount. If your lever cap is tight and keep raising the wheel while until blade is lifted, either lever scrap screw or lever cap will be shot. It's like prying them open with a vise.

No, that's not it. In fact, the lateral lever is too high to rest on the bolt that the wheel is traveling on. The grooves in the back of the blade rest on just two teeth (that's all there are), so once those teeth are set into the grooves, the blade can't slide forward or backward. All the blade can do is travel up/down, or slightly side to side. To adjust this plane, I loosened the lever cap, fiddled with the blade to get the right amount extended and then set the blade on those two teeth. I then spin the wheel up or down, and/or adjust the throat with the wheel on the toe of the plane depending on how aggresive a cut I want.

It's an odd mechanism that I've not seen before, but I think I like it! I think you said it could be a depth adjuster? Now that is a pretty good description of what it is doing.

[Stephen Reid]

I agree with Sam.That is the same adjuster on my Stanley 18.The wheel is designed to increase or decrease the irons projection below the sole of plane.Not to change the bedding angle of the iron.I'm not aware of any block plane that can do that ,and I'm not doubting that is what is happening with your plane but I think there is a problem with the set up on this one.The lever that the wheel moves is only supposed to contact the iron at the teeth that engage the slots on the back of the iron.I wonder if the teeth are worn or if someone filed down the post/frog that the adjuster pivots on causing this situation?

[william scott]

I agree with Sam.That is the same adjuster on my Stanley 18.The wheel is designed to increase or decrease the irons projection below the sole of plane.Not to change the bedding angle of the iron.I'm not aware of any block plane that can do that ,and I'm not doubting that is what is happening with your plane but I think there is a problem with the set up on this one.The lever that the wheel moves is only supposed to contact the iron at the teeth that engage the slots on the back of the iron.I wonder if the teeth are worn or if someone filed down the post/frog that the adjuster pivots on causing this situation?

Curioser and curioser! The teeth look o.k., how high is the post that the wheel moves on supposed to go? In any case, if somebody altered it then it's something that I wish some other plane makers had thought about. I'll have to take a much closer look at this mechanism and see if I can take some better pictures.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Because it's not that useful. At least not over depth adjuster. I'm sure plane manufacturers of the past thought about it. I can't remember which company, but there was a company that made variable angle frog bench planes. So there is no doubt it can be done on a bench plane, but when it comes to block plane, it barely has enough room to fit depth and lateral adjuster. If you look at low angle block planes of the past, most of them don't even have a lateral adjuster.

Depth adjustment is a necessity, whether done by a hammer or mechanical means. Often times it's necessary to change blade projection depending on the wood's grain pattern, blade condition, desired amount of cut and people have to adjust it time to time even on the same piece of wood. On the other hand, cutting angle doesn't need to be changed that often. For low angle and bevel up block planes, either micro bevel the blade for desired cutting angle or put in a spare blade with desired bevel angle, you don't need to change cutting angle in most cases until finished. So to have a mechanism that change bedding angle and exclude depth adjuster, that is rather counter intuitive and having to remove lever cap and wiggle the blade with finger until desired projection is achieved is by no means a great design.

Also by changing the bedding angle, you are lifting the blade from the machined bed. What's happening is that your blade is resting on the very back of the mouth by the blade tip and the rear part of the blade is resting on the pins. That is not good. A blade needs a bit more area to sit on comfortably, especially behind the mouth.

[David Myers]

Hey, you do have the same plane! Wow, the blade that you have was (is) really used up. Did you ever find a source for a new blade? The blade on mine is in real good shape but it would be nice to have a spare. I have a feeling I'm going to be using this little plane quite a bit.


Nope, I haven't found a replacement yet, though I haven't been looking all that hard. My blade is so short that the depth adjustment is not very useful. I've still been able to use the plane, though not to its full potential.

What's the overall length of your blade? I'm curious as to how used up mine is.

BTW, here's a link to the 1911 Sargent Catalog. Check out page 10.

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/sargentbk1911.pdf

[Stephen Reid]

Curioser and curioser! The teeth look o.k., how high is the post that the wheel moves on supposed to go? In any case, if somebody altered it then it's something that I wish some other plane makers had thought about. I'll have to take a much closer look at this mechanism and see if I can take some better pictures.


The iron should sit flat on the slope of the frog at the mouth and sit flush on the adjuster post. The teeth should engage the slots on the iron without preventing the iron from sitting on the post.Sam is right again I think you would get poor performance with the iron only touching a little at the mouth and perched up on the adjuster teeth.Not a very solid setup.Hopes this help.