Best Miter Saw Blade for Segmented Work?

[Eric Meier]

I've been looking over the options for a blade for my miter saw, and was wondering what you'd recommend for a blade. It's a 10" Porter Cable, non-sliding. I plan to do a lot of angled cutting on it for making segmented bowls, vases, etc.

I guess the things I'd be looking for are:



Something with a good grade of carbide for cutting exotic woods.
Something with a thin kerf (right?) so less material is wasted cutting all those segments. (Or is this a non-issue?)
Something that will leave a clean cut, and hopefully not have too much of a tendency to take the segments that I've just cut and toss them up into the ceiling. :o

I'm sure there's more criteria that I haven't considered, so if you think of something else, please let me know.

Looking forward to your input.:D

[scott spencer]

A good quality thin kerf should be fine if you want to waste less wood, but may limit your choices some, and is only saving ~ 1/32" per cut.

A Hi-ATB grind is the cleanest slicing grind with the lowest amount of tearout. That grind combined with a highish tooth count is even better for low tearout.

A blade with a low side clearance will give a more polished edge, but will also have more tendency to burn.

A blade with a moderately low to negative hook will have less tendency to grab the work...anything less than ~ 12° should be fine for a non-slider.

What to get? Infinity 010-060, Infinity 010-080, Freud LU79R010 (thin kerf) or LU80R010 (full kerf), Forrest Duraline, Amana Tools MB10-800, or Ridge Carbide MC10802 are some of the better choices to pick from. Find a deal.

[Eric Meier]

Thanks for your input.

I guess I'll toss out the thin-kerf idea: it would take me 32 cuts to only save 1" on a board: not worth it from that standpoint.

But I was looking at some of the ones that you suggested, and was wondering about the Hi/ATB tooth design. Are these meant to run in a tablesaw? It looks like they are mainly for sheet goods.

For the Freud, it lists a maximum depth of cut of only 1 5/8". I can see that that could definitely become an issue in some situations. I'm not sure if the maximum depth of cut is really 1 5/8", or if that's what they recommended to minimize tearout.

Obviously I want the cleanest cut possible, but I'm not sure if I should sacrifice other things to get it. FWIW, this (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-TF1061-10-Inch-60-Tooth-Blade/dp/B0002HC5MM/) is the blade that I'm currently using. I'm about to have it resharpened, and would like a second (better) blade to swap it out during the sharpening period, and then just use my current blade as a backup.

[Mike Minto]

Look at Tenryu blades. Wish I could afford them. I think a rough translation of the name would be 'heaven's way', or something similar. mike :D

[Richard Madison]

Eric, I use an 80-tooth ATB Freud on the table saw, standard 1/8" kerf. Recently got a new one as backup for the 20 year old original. Also got one for new CMS (not the same model # as TS blade), but have not used it yet. Bought it based on product description for use with CMS. Would advise against a thin kerf blade for segmenting, as you want the least blade vibration for the flattest cut.

[John King]

Forrest Woodworker I at http://www.forrestblades.com/online_catalog.htm. - John

[Eric Meier]

Forrest Woodworker I at http://www.forrestblades.com/online_catalog.htm. - John
Hmm, so far there's been 2 forrest blades recommended to me, a duraline, and a WWI.

Now, I have respect for forrest, but it looks like the WWI is really a thin kerf blade.

Also, the duraline looks like it is meant for a table saw.

I'm looking at the chopmaster line though, they look closest to what I'm after.

Though, after all is said and done, I don't know if I'll be able to justify the 2X cost, and maybe go with a Freud instead. Either way, it looks like a good occasion to use one of the frequent 20% off coupons from rockler. :D

[scott spencer]

The main difference between a TS blade and a miter saw blade is typically the hook angle. A steeper positive hook helps the board feed more easily on a TS. As long as the hook isn't too steep, many TS blades will serve very well in a CMS, including all those that I suggested earlier. A CMS doesn't require a negative hook blade, but a SCMS and RAS should have them.

The Hi-ATB grind is often used as a dedicated sheet good blade because of the clean slicing characteristics....the same characteristics will make them the cleanest slicing for your application. The downside is that the higher bevel angle will generally abrade a little faster than a lower bevel grind (if all else is equal), but as long as you're not doing commercial volumes, you'll still get good long edge life from your blades.

The Infinity 010-060 (http://www.infinitytools.com/Radial-Arm-Saw-Blades/products/1197/)is for use in a RAS, CMS, SCMS, or TS...60T, Hi-ATB grind, 5° hook, kerf width of 0.104" (basically a thin kerf blade that's on the thicker side). It's a bit less prone to burning than some of the ultra fine crosscut blades......one of my favorite. Currently on sale for $50 (regularly $70)

[Tom Giacomo]

I think any good blade will do , I do alot of segmented pieces and use a 80 tooth 10" blade and no matter how smooth the cut is it is not as good as a sanded segment. A saw cut segment will usually show, so after you cut your segment you will need to go the sander to finish it. Sometimes you can get away with a saw cut segment but the joints will be noticeable, the joints will look darker because of too much glue between the segments, but that's just my opinion.

[Doug Shepard]

I sold my CMS several years ago just because I needed the room. But for cuts where it really mattered I used a Systematic 100 tooth (10") negative hook blade on it. I got amazing cut quality with that blade but I think if you could find another 100-tooth blade, it would likely compare similarly. It was very hard to tell the difference between a cut off that blade and one that had the end grain hand planed off a shooting board. The cut from my BCTW Jointmaker Pro (guided ultra thin kerf Jap saw blade) looks very similar but the JMP might be a skosh better.

[Chris Stolicky]

I have actually used a 7-1/4" 60 tooth Freud blade I got at HD. I use it on my table saw, it has a really thin kerf, but you are limited on depth. It was $20.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Eric, I'm not familiar with the Porter saw, but I'm guessing that the best blade will only get you so far. I've been spoiled for the past year with a Kapex saw and I mean spoiled. With your set-up, I'll just add the importance of keeping whatever blade you have as sharp as possible - even carbide gets dull. The trick is to replace/sharpen before it gets dull.

[Terry Murphy]

How do you keep small pieces cut on a miter saw from banging and flying everywhere?

Terry

[John Terefenko]

I was a little surprised about Malcolm's answer because I would have bet $10 he would have said spend the money on a good sander such a a disc/belt sander. I think most segmenters will sweeten the cuts on a sander. Just a thought.

[Richard Madison]

If you can make clean, flat saw cuts it is not necessary to sand the segment ends, except to match the two half rings to a "perfect" fit. I do manually remove any little fuzz at the cut edges, as this can prevent getting a good joint. While there is test data showing that sanded joints are slightly stronger than saw cut joints, ultimate joint strength is usually irrelevant in segmented work.

Terry, for CMS you need an aux. rear, zero clearance back fence (what is that piece called?) and maybe some clamps to keep the segments from disappearing through the gap, or worse.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

I was a little surprised about Malcolm's answer because I would have bet $10 he would have said spend the money on a good sander such a a disc/belt sander. I think most segmenters will sweeten the cuts on a sander. Just a thought.

John, the question wasn't "to sand or not to sand?" For a long time I advocated sanding segment ends prior to gluing. As Richard stated, it makes for a stronger joint, but what’s more important, with many saw-cut surfaces, the surfaces can be improved. So, if you can see evidence of a saw blade, then I still recommend sanding (with a jig). In the case of the Kapex saw, I've found that most of the time, sanding is a waste of time; I simply can't improve the cut surface.

[Reed Gray]

With a chop saw, make the chop cut, and then stop the blade. Do not push the blade through, and then drag it back. Another thing, a good blade sharpener is better than any blade. Most factory edges are only okay, not great, kind of like our turning tools.
robo hippy

[mike fuson]

I own and operate a cabinet shop along with doing segmented work. I have owned two Forrest chopmasters and the first was junk and the second is better but still not much. I have used Freud blades for many years and they are the best that I have tried.

[Eric Meier]

How do you keep small pieces cut on a miter saw from banging and flying everywhere?

Terry
A few things I've noticed that seem to help, which may have been mentioned earlier are:



If you have the long piece of the wood being held with your hand on the left side of the saw, and the short cutoff on the right, then make sure the miter angle is angled to the left (toward the bigger piece that you're holding with your hand), rather than being angled to the right. That way, the cutoff piece is much less likely to get forced and jammed into the fence and sawblade by the acute angle of the saw.



I like to clamp a thin piece of wood to the fence as sort of a "zero clearance" fence. Actually, you need two pieces of the same thickness for each side of the fence. On normal fences, there's a gap between the blade and the fence where smaller pieces can get tilted inward and get thrown by the saw.



Lower the blade to make the cut, then let the blade stop spinning before you lift the blade back up.



Try to avoid cutting wood with a crazy/wild or interlocked grain.



I haven't tried this one, but it was mentioned at the start of this thread: apparently using a saw blade with a low or negative hook angle will be less likely to throw the piece.

[Paul Engle]

Malcolm is correct, but $1300 list for the saw( with blade ) and the blade by it self is $110 list , it may be out of reach of your wallet , also when your cutting 20$ or $50 dollar piece of wood in segemnets ... that 1/32" difference your saving is going to pay for it self over time by leaving you that much more of a piece of wood for a seg project ...that may sell for $500. Please don't discount a thin kerf. I use a Frued thin kerf and very seldom ( after tuning up the band) do I ever have to sand the ends, it is that good . I do use my Jet table saw and slider.as my chop saw tends to have .022" inch thrust in the motor so is not reliable with out adding a thrust bearing ( which my guess is the Kapex KS 120 EB by Festool has). But don't over think the thing or get stressed out by it . Learn with what you have and then you can improve your skills to take advantage of the better tools available. ;):D