Time for a new 8000 grit waterstone

[Russ Massery]

It's time to replace my 8000 grit waterstone. Was thinking of looking into the Shapton Glass stone to replace it. Any thoughts on doing so? Anyone made the the switch care to share there thoughts on the matter? If so do you need there holders or can I use my trusty shop made holder out of MDF?

[Mike Brady]

If you have worn out a (Norton ?) 8000, you will go through the glass stone much faster. I have noticed that many glass stone owners are recommending the thicker Pro stones for this reason. I don't own Shaptons; probably won't; just bought my second Norton 8000.

[Don C Peterson]

I suspect I won't live long enough to wear out my black Arkansas Stone...

[David Colafranceschi]

Buy the Shapton. The difference between the two is riduculous. The Shaptons cut faster and stay truer with the diamond lapping plate. As soon as I tried them I threw all my Nortons in the garbage and bought the 1000x, 4000x, 8000x, 16000x and the diamond lapping plate. Best money I ever spent. Later on I bought the holder just because after a while the plywoood holders alll warped with the exposure to water. Expensive but what a way to sharpen.

[Mike Henderson]

I think the reason Shapton brought out the glass stones is that you can't use the full thickness of the pro stones. That is, the stone will break when it gets thin enough and that amount of stone is wasted. It seems to me that the glass stones are just thinner pro stones glued to glass. But that way, you can use all of the stone - down to the glass.

By putting the stone on glass, they can sell it a bit cheaper and you still get as much sharpening out of it.

At least that's my guess.

And just a personal note - I wear my coarser stones down a LOT faster than my 8000 stone. I think my 8000 stone will last longer than I will.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Russ

What stones do you have at present? You did not say.


Mike, I gather that the glass stones are slightly different formulation to the Pro stones, and are meant to be better suited for A2 steel. I have the Pros in 1000/5000/8000/12000 ... and have epoxied them to glass! The reason? It seems to stabilise them better, less movement and, as you noted, they can now be used longer.

The Pros are excellent stones. My favourites are the 1000 and 12000. I think that you could rather get the 12000 instead of the 8000 as long as you have an intermediary stone in the 4000/5000 range, and especially if you hone microbevels and not full faces.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Russ Massery]

It's a King brand 8000 grit, I got used along with a set of Bailey's a few years back. It was well over half used when I got it. Maybe down to less then 3/8".
So I was looking for feedback on the Shaptons. I figured if I was going to buy new why not look into them. Most of my new blades are A2 and had read were the cut faster. I had to a lot of sharpening because the all the blades in the Bailey's were a mess. Mostly because who ever sharpen then before didn't flatten the stones before they used them. Also, all the new planes I bought are Veritas Bevel up. Which I have fallen in love with. Don't tell the SWMBO :D. Derek, that's great idea epoxying the stone to glass. I should do that with what's left of the 8000 grit. Mike, I agree with you about the courser stone they require a lot more flattening. So I feel they wear faster because of of it .David, you really must like the Shapton's. I'm leaning in that direction.

[Eddie Darby]

So I was looking for feedback on the Shaptons. I figured if I was going to buy new why not look into them. Most of my new blades are A2 and had read were the cut faster.

The difference between the Professional Series and the GlassStone series is that the GlassStone series is designed to handle the harder A2 steels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvop_JCfZGI

The YouTube video is Rob Cosman using GlassStones.

[Mike Henderson]

I'll just comment that I've never had any problem sharpening A2 blades (or chisels) on the Shapton pro stones. I do have diamond plates which I use for rough shaping (like if I get a bad nick in a blade), so maybe if all you do is "finish" on the pro stones there's no issue.

My only complaint about Shapton stones is the stiction of the 8000 stone. There are times when I wish the stone was porous so the blade didn't stick to the stone so hard when flattening the back. But for edges, there's no problem.

Mike

[Ted Calver]

Russ,
I recently bought the Shapton GlassStones in 500/1k,4k and 8k. They are fantastic!! I like Derek's idea and will get a couple more grits in the pro series and epoxy them to glass.

[Bill Miltner]

My current set: DMT 220& 325, King 800 & 1200, and Norton 4000 & 8000. I tried the Sharptons but could not get used to the stiction, even on the 500 grit stone. It just irritated the he!! out of me.

[Derek Cohen]

To all who experience "stiction" with Shaptons, the solution is simple - add a little liquid soap to the water you use to lubricate the stones. You will be amazed how this improves sharpening!

Russ, I moved from Kings to Shaptons. They are very different. Not only will the Shaptons cut faster, require less water and stay flatter longer (++), but the Shaptons provide more feedback owing to their harder surface. Where you need to soark the Kings for about 30minutes before use, the Shaptons only need a spritz of water (with added liquid soap!)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Russ Massery]

Derek, Are you referring to the " PRO" or "Glass" Shapton stones?

[Derek Cohen]

Russ, as mentioned earlier, I have the Pros. I do not find them a limitation on A2 (as Mike noted as well), and somehow their extra thickness seems better value-for-money.

You must add in to the cost a decent diamond stone, around 275-300 grit, for flattening. I started with the 10" DMT Extra Coarse. About a year ago I was offered a brand new Shapton diamond plate from a deceased estate and bought it as it was affordable. It is nicer to use than the DMT, which cuts much the same however and is Considerably cheaper.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ted Calver]

Derek,
The instructioins that came with my Shaptons said that washing the stone with soap or detergent "may damage the stone". Have you noticed any problems?

[Raney Nelson]

I have a couple of shapton pros and a couple of glasstones. I have a slight preference for the pros because I do think they're more cost effective in the long run. For what it's worth, while the glasstones (in the US) are indeed made specifically to handle A2, I don't see a significant difference in capability between the two series.

The only man-made stones Ive used that I prefer to the Shapton pros are the Chosera stones from Naniwa. The 10k chosera stone is in a completely different league than the 8k shapton, but it's quite expensive ($250+). I liked the Naniwa superstones quite a bit, and would probably call them comparable to the shaptons, but I have a lot less experience with that line than the others.

Personally, I thought the Norton 8k I wore out was a fine stone, and did what I asked of it. The shaptons (and Naniwas) are far better stones, though - faster, stay flat longer, and much more convenient as they need less water and zero soaking.

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,
The instructioins that came with my Shaptons said that washing the stone with soap or detergent "may damage the stone". Have you noticed any problems?

Ted, this would probably be an issue if you washed the stones in the dishwasher ... although I am sure that you would not notice the damage to the stones as you would be too busy noticing the damage to you by your wife! :)

I have not noticed any deterioration from using soapy water (for lubrication) over a couple of years. Others do this as well. I think I got this tip originally from Mike Wenzloff.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sam Takeuchi]

Why would you want to wash it with soap or detergent in the first place?

[Ted Calver]

Sam,
If the stone gets loaded up with metal or possibly oil, you might be tempted to reach for the detergent.

[Eddie Darby]

Don't let the thickness of the stone sway you. Thicker does not always equate into longer life.

The GlassStone series will handle A2 steel better than the Professional series, since they were designed specifically for this purpose. Please note that I did not say that the Professional series cannot sharpen A2 steel, just that it is not designed specifically for A2 steel.

[Jim Koepke]

The soap in water issue may be getting confused.

A drop or two of dish detergent in a quart of water will change the surface tension of the water and may change the properties of how a stone, metal being sharpened and the water (as lubricant/surfactant) interact.

Soapy water with more than a drop or two may actually be able to penetrate into the stone and break it down. This may also be something where different brands of detergent will have different effects.

This is another example of if one drop is good, forty drops is not forty times better.

jim

[George Israel]

How often do you re-flatten the Glass Stone while sharpening, obviously before, but do you do it during?

[Danny Burns]

How often do you re-flatten the Glass Stone while sharpening, obviously before, but do you do it during?
You need to use as much of the stone surface, as evenly as possible, then when you have used the surface up, then you re-flatten.
It's up to you to decide what is best, as everyone needs to determine how far they are going to go when it comes to sharpening.
You can do a little flattening ... often, or a lot of flattening ...not as often.
Try both approaches, and then decide for yourself.
Fanatics go the first route.