Spindel turning vs. bowls

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi All, I've done a fair number of bowls but haven't as yet done that much spindle type work. I'm making a pepper mill and had the hardest time making my spindle gouge work. It kept bouncing all over the place. I was trying to cut some very dry walnut. I went to my rough out gouge and that worked a lot better. I have a fairly pointy end on my spindle gouge. Could that be it?

[Dennis Ford]

I don't do a whole lot of spindle turning and have had some issues with using a spindle gouge after getting used to bowl gouge work. Spindle gouges are normally ground with a lower angle (longer bevel) and that affects how the tool should be presented to the wood. Keeping the bevel rubbing may require that you lower the handle end more than you do with a bowl gouge. Try going back to the basics; Anchor, Bevel, Cut

[Bernie Weishapl]

My spindle gouges has a rounded end on them. If it is pointy you need to work more on the point and then take very light cuts when you swing the gouge around to the wings. I actually lift my gouge so that it is barely touching the wheel when I swing to the wings.

[ROY DICK]

Also check the height of the tool rest, along with what the others have said.
I use more of a point type profile on detail work, with very light cuts.

Roy

[Paul Atkins]

Now this is where we need a video. I'd make one and post it if I knew a good hosting site that doesn't compress the heck out of it. Any suggestions? I'd show you how to use both gouges with good results. The skew is not on the menu however ----

[robert hainstock]

This week I made a small brush handle, all spindle turning. The first I've done in a lot of years. The thing that Wirked was go only cut towards the center ,(downhill), and never from the center out, (uphill). I have no point on the gauge, only a rounded profile. I hope this will help some. :)
Bob

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Thanks guys, I think I'm beginning to get it. My spindle gouge has a fairly sharp point on it. I did try it on some pine and it cut really well. But I'm going to reduce the point on it and try cutting again. I tried to shape it too much like my bowl gouge before and I don't think it works well like that. Thanks for the ideas all. I'm going to get a pic to show you.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Alan - if the roughing gouge worked and the spindle gave you fits - I would have to think that the pointed end was your problem area and that the tool rest was at the right height. Looking forward to seeing photos of the grind - it would help figuring out the problem.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Here you go Steve. What do you guys think?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Alan - if it were mine, I would sweep the wings back a little more by rolling the gouge while sharpening. Here is a great reference for grinds - see what you think: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/pdfs/tormek.pdf

[Steve Kubien]

Alan, check the angle you have that ground at the tip. It looks a little steep to me but that's just my opinion. I do a fair amount of spindle work (peppermills, pens, wands, honey dippers etc) and if I was to keep the gouge the way you have it, I would definately be lowering the tool rest some. I like everything else you've done regarding the tip (point vs round) and the wings.

My 2 cents and I probably owe you some change.

Steve

[RL Johnson]

I would grind the front bevel back a bit more. From your picture is looks more like a bowl gouge bevel. I have multiple spindle gouges and the sharp pointed ones I use to get into deep places and do not use it to round up the blank at all. The spindle roughing gouge is what I use to round up the blank and then I use the more "pointy" ones for making beads and decorative cuts. I also agree with bringing the wings back more. That also helps in close quarters.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Thanks Steve and Steve. My point looks more pointed than the pics and as the caption says this may limit its usefulness. I'll have to check the angle. I sharpen it using the same jig and wolverine as I do my Irish grind bowl gouge. Is this correct? Thanks for your help. Alan

[Roger Wilson]

... but haven't as yet done that much spindle type work...


On one of the forums there was a post indicating that Bill Grumbine was doing another DVD with an emphasis on spindle turning. I don't know whether the project is still going forward or when it might be available.

YouTube has Jet Basics videos, one of which focuses on spindle turning, and Popular Woodworking has a video on spindle turning (to buy) by Steve Shanesy:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/video_turning_trailer/

[Steve Kubien]

I sharpen it using the same jig and wolverine as I do my Irish grind bowl gouge. Is this correct?


Yes and no. Yes, the angle on my vari-grind is the same for spindle or bowl gouges. No, the angle is different relative to the wheel because I move the Wolverine base arm in about 1". That works for me and my set up. My grinder is a 6" and I do not even have a wolverine. I rigged up something similar and use a varigrind holder.

Make sense?

Steve

[Alan Tolchinsky]

O.K. here's the new grind. I decreased the angle and swept the wings back some more. What do you think?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Looks good - how does it work?

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I used it a little and it seems a little touchier than the old grind. It seems to remove wood faster. I have to be careful with it but I didn't spend much time working with it either. I have some more sharpening to do as you can probably see in one of the pics. Thanks Steve for your help. Now more practice.

[Mike Peace]

Dog Thompson has a pretty good picture of spindle gouge grinds on his web site:
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/sharpening.asp

[Steve Kubien]

Alan, that looks closer to what I use but my wings are not swept back that much. I know I wouldn't have any trouble using what you've got there.

Steve

[Phillip Bogle]

I agree with Steve. I would not have trouble using it. I suspect we all use each tool a little different. Similar and following the basic rules but a touch of variation. From what I have seen there are a wide varieties of little changes that each turner uses. I love my detail gouges and I find I spend a bunch of time in the 1 to 2 o'clock position. If you look at the gouge from above with the rounded tip at 12 Noon , then ride the bevel and cut with the 1 to 2 o'clock edge. Sort of sliding, the edge.

I will say that I do very little bowl turning anymore. After learning how to use the Lacer radius grind on the skew, I really love spindle work. If you get Alan Lacer's DVD Sweet Side/Dark Side and learn it, I believe your other tool handling will improve considerably. Undoubtedly some will have other opinions, but learning the skew helped improve my wood turning work.

Phil

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Thanks again for all the tips. This will be so helpful in learning to use the tool.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Alan T. I was going to post a similar question, so it sounds like you and I are wrestling with the same issue. My 1/2" spindle gouge was part of a PSI set and the original grind was not as swept back (and I think the bevel was steeper, but maybe it was an illusion due to appearing shorter). I ended up changing it considerably because I didn't know how to replicate it and it has long since been lost.

But that original grind seemed to be very forgiving; I'm having a devil of a time now that I'm trying some spindle work again. Part of it is being a bit rusty (me, not the gouge), but ever since changing the grind I've had less control. I want to get a second gouge to grind differently and compare them directly. I'd be curious to hear input on control issues with a traditional grind vs. a fingernail grind on a spindle gouge.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi Jake, Very interesting question. I could swear that I have slightly less control after I altered the angle and swept back the wings more. I had your same idea about buying another gouge and comparing control. I think that's a good experiment. However, I must say the new grind still works well and can do finer detail. I'm not really sure, with my limited experience, that I'm a good judge of these finer details. I need a lot more practice with this. Good luck. Alan

[Ryan Baker]

In my opinion, a traditional grind on a spindle gouge is much more forgiving and easier to control than a fingernail grind, though the fingernail grind is more versatile and can still do the job of the traditional grind if used carefully. I actually turned one of my fingernail gouges back into a traditional grind for that reason.

Tim Yoder, from Woodturning Workshop, has commented several times that he uses a 1/2" traditional grind and a 3/8" fingernail grind -- the bigger traditional grind is easier to use for rough work and gentle curves, while the smaller fingernail grind is better in the details. That made a lot of sense to me. With enough care and skill, you can do it all with one fingernail gouge. But if also having a traditional grind makes life easier, why not? YMMV