Ready to Purchase First Tool

[Bob Haskett]

I have done a bit of research on beginning woodworking. Seems after researching here, in books, other websites etc. that I need either a table saw or a band saw first. At the moment I have no tools what so ever really. I have a really old circular saw that I should probably replace, and a 12v coordless drill that isnt worth much either. So basically I am starting from nothing.

My wife is excited that I am taking up this hobby, because she has been interested in getting into the hobby of restoring, finishing, and painting furniture. So the hobbies kind of go together.

Anyway our budget starting out will not be big at all. I cant imagine her wanting me to spend more than 2-300 bucks on either a bandsaw or tablesaw. Is there ANY saw out there for that money worth a look? Craigslist and ebay have not turned up much for me so far in the used market. I have read several threads and most suggest "buy the best you can afford" which seems logical, however, most of what was suggested on any budget anywhere close to mine I cannot find anywhere. A lot of people liked a certain ridgid and another ryobi that look to be discontinued.

Basically, if you had 300 to spend on your first tool, (400 max) what would it be? (Table or Band, Models, Features etc)

I already have plans to get 2 Makita drills (1 impact driver and one drill).

Type of stuff I will be building:
Baby changing table
closet/garage type cabinets
Coffee tables
garden table
router table
that type stuff for now

[Matt Day]

Look into the used market for all your big tool purchases. Craigslist will be the best bet, or your local for sale papers.

I picked up a 3HP cabinet saw for $300 on Craigslist, you just have to be patient and jump on things when they come up.

Good luck!

[Bob Haskett]

Look into the used market for all your big tool purchases. Craigslist will be the best bet, or your local for sale papers.

I picked up a 3HP cabinet saw for $300 on Craigslist, you just have to be patient and jump on things when they come up.

Good luck!

Yeah been checking craigslist and stuff as I stated above, I am more or less asking what to look for more than where to look.

[Brad Wood]

Look into the used market for all your big tool purchases. Craigslist will be the best bet, or your local for sale papers.

I picked up a 3HP cabinet saw for $300 on Craigslist, you just have to be patient and jump on things when they come up.

Good luck!

+ 1 on that

[Stephen Edwards]

Welcome to woodworking, Bob! I'm sure that you'll get lots of opinions in response to your questions. What size shop area do you have to work with?

I'd suggest expanding your CL search area for starters. There are lots of TS and BS out there right now.

Personally, I'd want a TS before getting a BS. $400 might even get you a decent new contractor's TS if you catch a sale or a discontinued or a scratch and dent at one of the Borgs. For the same money you may very well be able to get a bigger better TS on CL. I'd say keep looking there first.

[Cliff Holmes]

I went the "bandsaw first" route. I basically got very little done until I got a tablesaw. Many will tell you "a bandsaw can make all the cuts a tablesaw can, plus curves". Well, you can drive a nail with a pair of pliers, too, but it's not the best way to go about it. You *can* do a lot with a bandsaw, but on a TS those things are faster, easier, and (dare I say) safer on a tablesaw. Get the tablesaw and a nice jigsaw instead.

The craigslist thing really depends on where you live.

[Bob Haskett]

Welcome to woodworking, Bob! I'm sure that you'll get lots of opinions in response to your questions. What size shop area do you have to work with?

I'd suggest expanding your CL search area for starters. There are lots of TS and BS out there right now.

Personally, I'd want a TS before getting a BS. $400 might even get you a decent new contractor's TS if you catch a sale or a discontinued or a scratch and dent at one of the Borgs. For the same money you may very well be able to get a bigger better TS on CL. I'd say keep looking there first.

Stephen we are neighbors if you are in Middle Tenn. Good point about the shop size. I forgot to mention that. I have only a small space in the 2 car garage to work with. So, basically when building things, it will be more of moving the cars out of the garage, setting everthing up, then putting everything back and putting the cars back in the garage.

Are there any specific brands you would look for/stay away from? I do not know much about fences, that seems to be the common complaint when complaining about a table saw.

[Matt Stiegler]

http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/1356709725.html

[Josh Reet]

It's a little against the common suggestions, but I've got to say that you'd be better off putting that 2-300 towards a decent drill, circular saw, and a few other tools first before a table saw and really before a band saw. Me, I'd go 18v cordless and get a fourpack with a recip saw and a impact driver. But I do a lot more "homeowner" repair/remodel type stuff than I do serious woodworking just yet. So I find those other two tools useful.

I've known a lot of guys who have gotten a ton of nice stuff done with just:

-drill
-circ saw
-orbit sander
-hand tools
-clamps
-and maybe a small router

So that might be a "budget" place to start.

There is a whole community of guys amped up about the old ryobi BT3000 series of saws and what you can do with them considering they aren't a real woodworking saw:

http://www.bt3central.com/forum.php

Those show up on CL for $250-400 regularly. It would be enough to get you started. If you decided to move up int he woodworking world, you could probably resell it or just keep for a mobile saw. If you decided woodworking was not for you, the saw would still be useful as a homeowner's tool.

But then again, I'm a beginner as far as serious woodworking goes. I know tools, but my knowledge of building a woodworking shop isnt' as extensive.

[Bob Haskett]

http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/1356709725.html


I have emailed him 3 times in the past week with no response. Hopefully he will get around to it. I tried 2 different email addresses thinking maybe it went to his spam with no luck.

[Jerome Hanby]

Let me steel myself for the deluge of rotting vegetables about to be hurled at me. If $400 is all your budget will allow for the near future and especially if you are strapped for space, take a look in Craigslist for used Shopsmiths. You get several basic woodworking functions an it occupies about as much space as a bicycle. I'm not a big fan of it's table saw mode, but it is usable and better than anything in your price range at Sears:D. For $100-$150 you can eventually find a Bandsaw attachment on Craigslist. About the same money will get you the jointer attachment. You do have to switch it from one mode to another, but if you plan your project, the inconvenience is minimal.

Plus the darn things are almost indestructible!

I paid a little over $600 for mine with a Jointer attachment included. Had I shopped longer, I could have gotten the basic unit w/o Jointer for less than $400.

I'm slowly replacing it's functions with standalone gear, but I still like the Shopsmith. It's nice to be able to cut Dadoes without swapping blades on my Table Saw or do some curvy bandsaw work without messing with my Bandsaw's resaw setup. About the only total loss item will be the Jointer. If I ever manage to get a nice big standalone Jointer, I can't see any reason to ever use the Shopsmith 4 inch one again.

[Bob Haskett]

It's a little against the common suggestions, but I've got to say that you'd be better off putting that 2-300 towards a decent drill, circular saw, and a few other tools first before a table saw and really before a band saw. Me, I'd go 18v cordless and get a fourpack with a recip saw and a impact driver. But I do a lot more "homeowner" repair/remodel type stuff than I do serious woodworking just yet. So I find those other two tools useful.

I've known a lot of guys who have gotten a ton of nice stuff done with just:

-drill
-circ saw
-orbit sander
-hand tools
-clamps
-and maybe a small router

So that might be a "budget" place to start.

There is a whole community of guys amped up about the old ryobi BT3000 series of saws and what you can do with them considering they aren't a real woodworking saw:

http://www.bt3central.com/forum.php

Those show up on CL for $200-300 regularly. It would be enough to get you started. If you decided to move up int he woodworking world, you could probably resell it or just keep for a mobile saw. If you decided woodworking was not for you, the saw would still be useful as a homeowner's tool.

But then again, I'm a beginner as far as serious woodworking goes. I know tools, but my knowledge of building a woodworking shop isnt' as extensive.

Hey thanks for the suggestions. The other tools dont count towards the 300. What I meant to say is I have roughly 300-400 for JUST a saw. I am getting a makita impact driver and makita drill regardless. Hopefully something will show up on CL, just wouldnt even know what would be a good deal, what brands to look for etc.

[Brian Tax]

I agree with the the used route, but being new to WWing, it is hard to know what you are looking for on the used market. You need experience to know what to look for and make sure the machine it not broken or abused. For my first TS, I got a close out on a Craftsman contractor saw for about your price range.

[Bob Haskett]

I agree with the the used route, but being new to WWing, it is hard to know what you are looking for on the used market. You need experience to know what to look for and make sure the machine it not broken or abused.

Yup thats my point exactly. Was asking more WHAT to look for than where.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I'd start out with a jobsite bench table saw so it will have a warranty and not much is invested in it.

I hardly use my bandsaw anymore...

Get a Ryobi, Dewalt, Ridgid, or Bosch... Or even look at Craftsman :/

At least these will get you going quickly rather than wait 1 day to 1 year searching CL for the "perfect" deal.

Table Saw is my #1 tool.

Then I would say Jointer, and then Planer.

bandsaw is maybe #4 on my list, and those make up the BIG 4.

[David DeCristoforo]

While there will be those who disagree, the table saw is the "heart and soul" of most woodworking shops. I agree with the "look around for good used" line of thinking. I'm not at all impressed with any of the saws you can buy new for three or four hundred bucks....

[Matt Stiegler]

In my opinion, buying a new $400 contractor saw is the last thing you want to do. [Edit: well, unless your space is really limited and you needed one of those folding-stand job saw type things, which might be hard to find used. And it sounds like your space is really limited.] If you get into woodworking, you're probably going to be itching to upgrade it in a heartbeat, and you'll take a big hit when you re-sell it. Same thing if you realize woodworking isn't for you and decide to sell it.

And, while you'll find virtual unanimity here that the best saw in your price range is a used cabinet saw, that doesn't mean its the best choice for you right now. Like Chris said, you may spend months looking for that saw. You'll need a 220 outlet for it if you don't have one already, and that may be more expense/hassle than you're ready for. And, you don't really know what you're looking for, so its intimidating to try to buy the saw you're going to be using the next 20 years.

I think the better way to go for you is just to find a good deal on a used contractor saw. (That's a table saw with an open base, not an enclosed base). Getting a good deal is more important than getting the perfect saw, because you're just buying a saw you can learn on and then re-sell for what you paid for it or more. And you can plug it into a household outlet. There are lots of them out there. Put a nice blade on it, and you can do some very satisfying work, and then you can keep that blade when you upgrade.

The only real downside to that approach, in my opinion, is that that used contractor saw is going to be a lot less safe than a new cabinet saw -- no riving knife, probably no splitter, and very likely a guard/splitter that's so inconvenient that you never use it. So you really need to take responsibility for learning how to use the saw safely, keeping your fingers out the blade and avoiding kickback. Other downsides are less accuracy and more sawdust, but you can live with that for now in my opinion.

[GERALD HARGROVE]

Bob,
Where in TN are you, I am in Clarksville? I started with a skill saw, hammer, corded drill and a jig saw. Only purchased a table saw when I decided to build cabinets, and a router. You can do alot with those few tools. Although I have added and replaced over the years, those basic tools made alot of saw dust. My first table saw was a Craftsman contractors saw, by the way very much within your starter budget.

[Bob Haskett]

Bob,
Where in TN are you, I am in Clarksville? I started with a skill saw, hammer, corded drill and a jig saw. Only purchased a table saw when I decided to build cabinets, and a router. You can do alot with those few tools. Although I have added and replaced over the years, those basic tools made alot of saw dust. My first table saw was a Craftsman contractors saw, by the way very much within your starter budget.

Not far from you. I am in Spring Hill TN, (45 miles south of nashville). About 1 hr 15 min from you.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Well, you can drive a nail with a pair of pliers

Pliers? Who uses pliers? I use my foot, like a real man and just kick it in! ;)

+1 Tablesaw vote from me... +1 Craigslist, too.. Nothing good in my area.. Now and then you can find [local, pickup only] deals on eBay, too.

I ended up picking up a new Rigid R4511 from Homedepot.. With the sale going on, $450 is hard to beat for a saw in that class. Unless you have a higher budget.

IF you can pick up a good used saw, to just dip your feet into the water, then that'd be great too.. My first saw was a POS Skil table saw with an aluminum table and weighted so little I could easily carry it around.

Used that saw for years, and respected it for what it was. It built several things, including a top for my 75 gallon aquarium all the way up to a 10'x8' out building.

[johnny means]

If I had to start over right now with that budget, I would not buy any stationary machines. I would fill out my power tools with a decent circular saw, jig saw, drill, sander then top it off with a router. I guarantee you there's nothing I do now that I couldn't get done with this in my quiver(albeit a bit slower). A couple of saw horses and a hollow core door and I'm taking orders.

[Nathan Callender]

Bob - welcome. I just went through this a few months ago and got my first 'stationary' tool. I got a Ridgid TS3660, and the only reason was that it went on clearance and there was a HD tool sale, and I drove all over the state to find one actually in stock. I got a crazy discount on it, too. I'd been looking for several months. If you are patient and keep your eyes open, you'll get something useful and within budget. It's doesn't matter the exact brand, but these are some features important to me:

1. Induction motor (ie, big, heavy motor unlike some of the benchtop saws). They are much quieter - it makes a difference even though you are wearing hearing protection.

2. Just plan on getting a good blade ($50) up front. Get a full kerf blade. :-)

3. Size and weight matters. The heavier the better! I can drag my saw around my garage easily with the mobile base, but it's heavy enough to sit properly on the ground and I'm not afraid I'll tip it over if something snags.

4. Buidl and quality of finish. If it feels flimsy or cheap, just pass. It should be reasonably robust and built to be treated like the machine that it's supposed to be.

5. If you only have 110v in your garage, you can't really go above 1.5HP - just keep that in mind while shopping.

BTW, IMO I'd go with a TS first - a good bandsaw that can actually do all the things people say a bandsaw can do will be out of your budget anway. I'd love to get one some day, but I know that when I do, it will be a very nice one.

[Bob Haskett]

How big is a typical contractors type saw? I have hardly any room to store it. Are they all about this size?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=159372-46578-C10FL&lpage=none

Just saw that in person today. NO WAY I could find anywere in my garage to store that. Well, unless I left the truck parked outside.

[Steve Walls]

I hate to post this seeing you're on a tight budget. You might look into Festool. Their track and saw in particular are great for breaking down sheet goods. Combined with their MFT and you almost have a TS. I still prefer a TS for ripping thin pieces or a bandsaw could be used. They are definately in a category of you get what you pay for.

If you want to save some money on projects you should look into a planer, then you could could use rough lumber. A jointer would also be handy, although with Festool you can put a very nice edge on most pieces of wood.

[Donald Hofmann]

If I had a limited budget I wouldn't buy an impact driver to start out with. I have driven several thousand screws with a regular cordless drill.

[Chris Kennedy]

I've known a lot of guys who have gotten a ton of nice stuff done with just:

-drill
-circ saw
-orbit sander
-hand tools
-clamps
-and maybe a small router


But then again, I'm a beginner as far as serious woodworking goes. I know tools, but my knowledge of building a woodworking shop isnt' as extensive.


Let me steel myself for the deluge of rotting vegetables about to be hurled at me. If $400 is all your budget will allow for the near future and especially if you are strapped for space, take a look in Craigslist for used Shopsmiths. You get several basic woodworking functions an it occupies about as much space as a bicycle. I'm not a big fan of it's table saw mode, but it is usable and better than anything in your price range at Sears:D. For $100-$150 you can eventually find a Bandsaw attachment on Craigslist. About the same money will get you the jointer attachment. You do have to switch it from one mode to another, but if you plan your project, the inconvenience is minimal.


My advice is going to be along with these two posts -- going in a completely different direction from the norm.

My first saw was a compound miter saw. You don't have surfacing tools and won't be getting them any time soon with your budget, so you are going to be buying pre-dimensioned lumber for a while. I was in the same situation, and since I had to buy either pre-dimensioned or have the lumber yard rip it to size -- it didn't make sense to buy a saw that could rip. I needed to crosscut.

I would save your tablesaw money until you find your used dream tablesaw or you have enough capital to buy a good sized tablesaw. Consider a CMS and spend the remainder of your budget on the smaller but irreplaceable tools (router, biscuit joiner . . . )

Cheers,

Chris

[Stephen Edwards]

Hey Bob,

Here's another CL saw that might fit the bill for you as a starter saw:

http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/1377031319.html

I'm not familiar with this particular saw. However, I do know that some of the job site saws do a decent job, especially for the kinds of things that you've said that you'd like to build and your space considerations. They aren't the "ultimate" TS, but if it's a well built one you can learn a lot and do a lot with one. We all have to start somewhere.

Popular Woodworking magazine recently did a comparison of the better known job site TSs on the market. In your situation I wouldn't rule one out.

I would also, if I were you, draw a floor plan of your garage. There may be something that you've overlooked in terms of not having enough space for a contractor's saw on a mobile base. In spite of what many folks will tell you about contractor saws, plenty of people are building fine projects with a contractor saw.

By the way, I'm up in Clay County near Dale Hollow Lake. You know, that part of TN also known as Tucasee!

[Don Jarvie]

More cents to add to the conversation...

At minimum you want a contractors saw. The jobsite saws may be good but they don't have the size across the table more than 12 to 15 inches so you are limited on how much you can rip. A contractors saw will have a 30 inch fence so your ripping capacity will be adequate. Also the jobsite saws don't have the HP for hardwood.

You can find contractors saws with 1.5 to 2hp motors which are a good size for most jobs.

You can find plently of contractors on CL around 150 to 200. Cabinet saws will go for around 350 to 400 and will require some work, cleanup, bearings, etc. If your up for the restoration challenge the cabinet is the way to go.

I started with a jobsite saw and brought it back after a week, too small. Got a Delta contractors and kept it for a few years until I got a Walker Turner cabinet saw. 3hp with a Forrest WWII it cuts everything.

[william scott]

Well, I'll put my asbestos suit on and wade in here. This guy doesn't have much money for tools and he's going to be needing to do more than cut wood. He needs to shape it, smooth it, drill it..etc.

For three hundred, he can find a good stock of hand tools such as the 'eggbeater' drill, 'bit and brace', a couple of planes, a couple of good hand saws, a chisel set, a set of drill bits, all from hunting junk shops and pawn shops, garage sales/flea markets. For another 100 bucks he can easily find a good, smaller router at a pawn shop. The Home Depots out my way have a Ryobi Router table on sale for $20. For $400, he can have a lot of tools, although most will be hand tools, and he can get started. Once he figures out what he likes to build, he can then decide what he needs and what power tool meets that need.

[Nathan Callender]

How big is a typical contractors type saw? I have hardly any room to store it. Are they all about this size?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=159372-46578-C10FL&lpage=none

Just saw that in person today. NO WAY I could find anywere in my garage to store that. Well, unless I left the truck parked outside.

Bob - Ridgid (sold at HD) makes a portable table saw that seems sturdy-ish and folds up nicely. I almost bought it thinking that there's no way I could fit the contractor saw in my garage, but I reconsidered, and I'm glad I did. It's table, fence, trunion and base are just not quite what you'll want. Take a look at them in the store and see for yourself.

BTW, if you really don't have the room for a table saw, maybe consider the tracksaw, track and a break-down table. There are several companies other than festool that sell stuff like that for much less (I'm not bashing festool).

The problem with hand tools only is that you will need a real woodworking bench to get the most out of them. I don't have one yet, but it's on my list of stuff to build after the current project! They are also addictive. Once you learn how to sharpen a plane, it's silly how nicely they cut!

Good luck, and remember that whatever you do, it needs to fit you and your space.

[william scott]

Actually, if you get one of the Black and Decker Workmate folding worktables, they do very nicely for woodworking. The holes are 3/4#, and you can get clamps that hold the work for not much at places like Harbor Freight. My Workmate has seen a lot of use over the years.

[Mike Cruz]

Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but patience, patience, patience... Keep searching CL. You should be able to find a decent TS and BS for $350 - $400. Or maybe a TS and Jointer. For $400 and a bunch of patience, you should be able to find a TS, Jointer, and either a BS or small (12") Planer. Don't take the FIRST thing you find unless it is a REAL deal. Looking on CL once a week likely won't do it. Check it every day...at LEAST once.

[Rob Fisher]

If I had to start over right now with that budget, I would not buy any stationary machines. I would fill out my power tools with a decent circular saw, jig saw, drill, sander then top it off with a router. I guarantee you there's nothing I do now that I couldn't get done with this in my quiver(albeit a bit slower). A couple of saw horses and a hollow core door and I'm taking orders.

This is definitely the way to go! I say that because I am exactly there, with a couple of nice power tools but no machinery (well I do have a nice SCMS, is that machinery :) ?).

Personally I will start out with a bandsaw when I have the funds, because it will suit my materials and projects better. If I do use sheet goods they will have to be broken down with my circular saw and MDF straightedge.

The hand tool road could also be very interesting, if you don't mind slipping down that slope. ;)

[Vic Damone]

Welcome Bob. This must be an exciting time for you. From your post I was wondering just how much woodworking experience you have? If you've never used a table saw before there are some very important fundamentals you'll need to learn. These are best shown to you in a one on one setting. You may have already noticed opinions regarding safety vary. For now you might want to poke around this sight www.thewoodwhisperer.com or other instructional sites suggested by others here.

If you're going to be working in an enclosed garage a job site or contractor saw is going to create a great deal of uncontrollable airborne sawdust. The finest of this dust is the most dangerous to your health. Some species of wood are known to be highly toxic. While dust collection isn't a very glamorous aspect of woodworking you'll notice there is a forum dedicated to the subject.

Sorry to be the wet towel on your new adventure but I think I speak for everyone here, we value your healthy participation. If you already know this stuff, never mind.

[Bob Haskett]

Welcome Bob. This must be an exciting time for you. From your post I was wondering just how much woodworking experience you have? If you've never used a table saw before there are some very important fundamentals you'll need to learn. These are best shown to you in a one on one setting. You may have already noticed opinions regarding safety vary. For now you might want to poke around this sight www.thewoodwhisperer.com (http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com) or other instructional sites suggested by others here.

If you're going to be working in an enclosed garage a job site or contractor saw is going to create a great deal of uncontrollable airborne sawdust. The finest of this dust is the most dangerous to your health. Some species of wood are known to be highly toxic. While dust collection isn't a very glamorous aspect of woodworking you'll notice there is a forum dedicated to the subject.

Sorry to be the wet towel on your new adventure but I think I speak for everyone here, we value your healthy participation. If you already know this stuff, never mind.

I did not know any of that. I will poke around. I am planning to take some classes at the local Woodcraft store.

[Bob Haskett]

Seems like opinions are spread out over a few thoughts.

I have heard


Get at least a cabinet
Do not get a table saw just get hand tools for now
Get a contractors saw
Get a portable saw
And finally, dont get a TS get a good CMS for now.
I kinda figured that. I guess what I am going to do now is just keep watching craigslist and go look at some saws to get an idea of what I can fit in here. In the mean time, I will draw a floorplan of the garage in case someone can offer something I missed. Truth is my aspirations are bigger than my work area will allow probably.

[Nathan Callender]

I will draw a floorplan of the garage in case someone can offer something I missed. Truth is my aspirations are bigger than my work area will allow probably.

Bob - there's a workshop planner on the grizzly.com site which is sort of fun to play with. Also, poke around in the workshop forum a little maybe do a search for "small workshop" there. You would be amazed at some people's constraints and yet they do some awesome work, so don't let it stop you.

BTW, a cabinet saw or hybrid (motor is inside) is only about 27-30" deep with the rails. A contractor will add another 9-12" so that's something to think about. But, if you get a set of 40" rails and put a router in the right wing of a one of the hybrid saws, you can push it up against a wall and it can be very compact.

Oh, finewoodworking.com has a free trial period if you sign up online and they have a bunch of videos and articles on getting started in woodworking and setting up a small shop, buying equipment, etc. You can spend a whole day reading stuff and it wouldn't be time wasted.

[sean m. titmas]

If it wasn't mentioned before than let me say it now,
buy the best tool that you can afford at the time. cheap tools will rear their ugly heads every time you go to use them but good tools will operate effortlessly every time you use them and you wont even realize that they are there.

my list would go like this,

table saw
joiner
planer
router table/shaper
band saw
drill press


check for second hand tool for your first purchases so that you can get a feel for them and develop a brand preference for your second, and hopefully final, purchase.

[Stephen Edwards]

Bob, One more thing if it hasn't yet been mentioned: Most woodworkers prefer a left tilt saw, meaning that as you're facing the saw the blade tilts to the left from it's normal 90 degree configuration to the table, when you wish to make a cut that requires changing the angle of the blade.

Though there are some folks who don't mind, and even actually prefer a right tilt saw, I believe that a significant majority prefer the left tilt for a number of logical reasons, myself included.

So, there's another thing for you to ponder!

[Cliff Holmes]

planning to take some classes at the local Woodcraft store.

Check out your local community college. Some offer woodworking as a self-improvement course, others have some kind of cabinet-making vocational program.

[Bob Haskett]

http://www.toolking.com/products/15635920.aspx?googlebase=35920

I have a chance to get this for $549. Is that a good saw for that price?

Would it handle most anything I would need to do?

[Mike Cruz]

You could probably get something like it for less (used). If you are looking for new, then it seems (to me) like a decent deal...but I know nothing about that saw.

Sorry, I hadn't read some of the other posts when I wrote my post. Let me try to maybe answer your original question better than I had before.

One tool will unlikely "do the trick". That is why I recommend buying used, and off CL. That said, which ones to get are very dependant on what you want to do.

If your aim is cabinet type jobs/work, TS, jointer, and dust collection (with a fan to vent the "air born" stuff out of the shop are neccessary.

If you are looking to get more into the "crafts" side of woodworking, you ought to look into a band saw (14" or bigger) and sanding equipment (i.e. drum sander, disc sander, that sort of thing. And still a dust collector and a fan to vent the air born stuff out of the shop.

Hope that helps a little more.

PS, I thought your budget was about $400. :rolleyes: Funny how we jump to a $550 TS...:D

[Stephen Edwards]

http://www.toolking.com/products/15635920.aspx?googlebase=35920

I have a chance to get this for $549. Is that a good saw for that price?

Would it handle most anything I would need to do?

If you can get that saw brand new for the price you mentioned, yes, I think that's a good deal. And yes, it will probably do everything that you want to do for a long time.

My only reservation is the granite top. I don't know enough about them to offer sound advice in regards to how they hold up over time. I've "read" about issues with chipping. Perhaps some fellow Creekers have one of these already and can chime in.

[Bob Haskett]

Went shopping with the wife today for a table saw. Lucky for me we have decided to increase the budget for the saw to $650ish.

[Jon Toebbe]

Went shopping with the wife today for a table saw. Lucky for me we have decided to increase the budget for the saw to $650ish.
Now that opens up a whole lot more options! Given the upcoming projects you listed, it sounds like you'll be working with a lot of sheet goods. For that it's real hard to beat a guided circular saw of one sort or another. Festool has a loyal following, but would eat up your table saw budget real fast. Dino's EZ-Smart works well for me (I already had a nice PC circ. saw). The cheap options is to make your own plywood/mdf saw guide.

At the very least, use the third option to break down the big sheets before taking them to the table saw. Ripping 4 ft x 8 ft sheets on a table saw makes me pretty nervous... plus it's an awful lot like working, swinging those things around. :D

[Bob Haskett]

Granted I know hardly anything about table saws in general, but the steel city saw I listed above I saw at a local woodcraft for $549 and it seemed like a really solid well built machine.

[Matt Stiegler]

I'm far from an expert. To me, that's a lot of saw for $550, and if you get it I suspect you'd be grinning every time you walk in your garage.

I'm only aware of two issues for you to think about with it -- durability of the granite top, as mentioned above (and if you search granite here you'll find more on this), and the 1.75 hp motor. Opinions differ on motor size, but there are many here who would say 3 hp is what you need.

I'm not saying either of those is reason not to get it, just flagging it.

[Marty Paulus]

Bob,

With your increase in budget I would run a 220 line to the shop and, as mentioned, watch CL! With a little patience you can find one heck of a nice used saw.

[Bob Haskett]

I would have no problem get 220 out there. My dryer is on the wall adjacent to my garage.

I think I have narrowed it down to the Ridgid R4511, Steel City 35920, or the Grizzly G0661. Any reason why I should discard any one of those choices? I would prefer to keep the price around 650. But could probably swing up to around $850 if there was a really compelling reason to move up.

[James White]

Ok Bob,

Every time you bump up the budget you get closer and closer to a full on cabinet saw. Especialy if you are patient enough to wait for a Craig's list deal. However if you are like many of us and have any itchy trigger finger any of the three you have mentioned will suit you just fine for a long time to come. If you stay with this you may eventually want to upgrade to a cabinet saw but there are many who build fine furniture with this level saw. Personally I would go with the deal at Woodcraft. Steel City is know to put out a good product and I would not be afraid of the granite top. Just don't dangle heavy metal object over it. Also you will develop a relationship with the folks at Woodcraft and that can be beneficial.

Edit: Check out this thread and the happy camper + special tool event at Home Depot.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=120376

My .02

James

[Bob Haskett]

Ok Bob,

Every time you bump up the budget you get closer and closer to a full on cabinet saw. Especialy if you are patient enough to wait for a Craig's list deal. However if you are like many of us and have any itchy trigger finger any of the three you have mentioned will suit you just fine for a long time to come. If you stay with this you may eventually want to upgrade to a cabinet saw but there are many who build fine furniture with this level saw. Personally I would go with the deal at Woodcraft. Steel City is know to put out a good product and I would not be afraid of the granite top. Just don't dangle heavy metal object over it. Also you will develop a relationship with the folks at Woodcraft and that can be beneficial.

Edit: Check out this thread and the happy camper + special tool event at Home Depot.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=120376

My .02

James

Yah, sorry I realize I am throwing everyone for a loop when I change the budget. Its just how the conversations have progressed with my wife. It started out at 400, we went shopping and it turned into 650 because she really thought the Steel City saw was nice for the money, and now it is 650 with the option of going higher if the features warrant it. I think she would only agree to go much higher if there was a REAL reason to get something more than the steel city saw.

Maybe this is a better question. What is out there sub-$1000 that offers SUBSTANTIAL advantage over something I can get in the 650 range?

[Jerome Hanby]

I would have no problem get 220 out there. My dryer is on the wall adjacent to my garage.

I think I have narrowed it down to the Ridgid R4511, Steel City 35920, or the Grizzly G0661. Any reason why I should discard any one of those choices? I would prefer to keep the price around 650. But could probably swing up to around $850 if there was a really compelling reason to move up.

I was really excited about the Ridgid until I met on in person. I've never cut with one, but the in person "vibe" wasn't all that good for me. It wasn't as physically imposing as I thought it would be.

I'm a little clumsy and the granite table worries me a bit, I can just see myself stumbling and blowing out the granite t slot with the miter gauge.

Was just looking at pictures on Amazon, but what about the
Grizzly G0478 2 HP Hybrid Cabinet Saw (http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G0478-Hybrid-Cabinet-Saw/dp/B000E327ZY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1253483533&sr=8-5)

I don't think it has a riving knife, but rest of it's specs and reviews look good.

[James White]

Your best bet would be a used cabinet saw in the $600-700 price range. But if you prefer new you could get Grizzly to post this on ebay. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Table-Saw-3-HP-Single-Phase-220V-Left-Tilt/G1023SL

The current Microsoft cash back is at 8% and free shipping gets you a new cabinet saw for under 1k barley. For just starting out that is allot of bread. However you will not need to upgrade. The Home Depot deal sounds real sweet for someone in your shoes. So does the Woodcraft deal.

James

[Bob Haskett]

Your best bet would be a used cabinet saw in the $600-700 price range. But if you prefer new you could get Grizzly to post this on ebay. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Table-Saw-3-HP-Single-Phase-220V-Left-Tilt/G1023SL

The current Microsoft cash back is at 8% and free shipping gets you a new cabinet saw for under 1k barley. For just starting out that is allot of bread. However you will not need to upgrade. The Home Depot deal sounds real sweet for someone in your shoes. So does the Woodcraft deal.

James

What does a 3HP table saw do that a 1.75HP cant. I mean it obviously cuts thicker wood I would assume but how much thicker are we talking here? I mean if I go for the 1.75 HP motor will I be limited in what I can do?

[Scott Hildenbrand]

I'm a little clumsy and the granite table worries me a bit, I can just see myself stumbling and blowing out the granite t slot with the miter gauge.

I'd be more worried about stumbling and loosing a hand, if you're that accident prone.. ;)

[Mike Cruz]

What does a deisel engine in a 3/4 ton pick up do that a gas 350/351 in a 1/2 ton pick up can't? Does that put it in perspective? If not, hook up a 10,000 lb trailer to each and trailer them 1000 miles. CAN the 350/351 do it, yeah, but....:o

[Mike Cruz]

Sorry, I hit reply too quickly. I CERTAINLY am NOT downing on anyone with a contractor's saw (or anything less than a $3000 for that matter), rather pointing out the difference between a 1.75 HP motor and a 3 HP motor. Hey, the same arguement can be made for the difference between a 5 HP and a 3 HP.

Bottom line, the 1.75 HP will likely do whatever you ask of it. Personally, I can tell you that my Ridgid TS2424 that I recently replaced had a 1 HP motor. I was quite happy with it. Could it cut pretty much whatever I put through it? Yes. BUT, if I pushed the stock through too quickly, or if the wood closed up the kerf too quickly, I COULD and DID stop the blade. I doubt the same would happen with a 3 HP motor. The motor would either keep that blade spinning, burning the wood nastily, or throw the wood back at me.

[Mike Cruz]

Okay, this is what I was talking about re: checking out CL.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/1384066731.html

If you have a $400 budget, you could get all this. It covers not just your first tool, but 4 of them. I am CERTAINLY not a fan of Craftsman, but for personal reasons pertaining to Sears. If you have none of these, I have a hard time seeing the justification of spending $400-650 on just one tool, namely a TS. You could get these, and find out what you like and dislike about them. Figure out what you would replace each of them with, with what options and so forth. You should easily be able to sell any one of them for $100 each when that time came. In the meantime, you could get a feel for the tools, meaning for example, what a jointer is like, a band saw, etc. And trust me, when you finally do get that really nice TS, BS, or Jointer, you will appreciate it that much more.

[Stephen Edwards]

If it wasn't mentioned before than let me say it now,
buy the best tool that you can afford at the time. cheap tools will rear their ugly heads every time you go to use them but good tools will operate effortlessly every time you use them and you wont even realize that they are there.

my list would go like this,

table saw
joiner
planer
router table/shaper
band saw
drill press


check for second hand tool for your first purchases so that you can get a feel for them and develop a brand preference for your second, and hopefully final, purchase.

I agree with both Sean's advice about getting good tools and his sequence of adding tools to your "arsenal".

I will also add that there's nothing wrong with getting a contractor's saw, in my opinion, as long as it's a good one and you have a high end blade in it. Many people do excellent woodworking with a well tuned contractor's saw.

[Bob Haskett]

I agree with both Sean's advice about getting good tools and his sequence of adding tools to your "arsenal".

I will also add that there's nothing wrong with getting a contractor's saw, in my opinion, as long as it's a good one and you have a high end blade in it. Many people do excellent woodworking with a well tuned contractor's saw.

Well I will keep my eyes open. I am going to watch craigslist and *may* jump on that Steel City saw for $549. That is the only saw I have seen while shopping that I thought was an excellent buy for the price.

I mean I saw the Ridgid R4511 at HD it was 599, I saw a Hitachi at Lowes that didnt seem near as nice as the SC for 599, none of that impressed me as much as the SC did.

Granted I dont really know what to look for, but it seemed pretty well built, and it seemed like you get a lot for the money. I am waiting to see if anyone lets me know of another saw I should buy (new or used) that is a better saw for the money.

[Stephen Edwards]

I can tell you that that particular Craftsman table saw is good only for the the most basic ripping functions and cross cuts that don't depend on any reasonable level of accuracy.

The jointer is likely "OK".

Lot's of opinions, huh?! As David pointed out earlier, a table saw is the "heart and soul" of a shop, at least for most people. Now that your budget has gone up to the $600 range:D, you have LOTS more options.

One more thing that I think is worth mentioning when searching CL: Often, for reasons that are incomprehensible to me, people will list a table saw or some other tool, simply as........shop tools for sale, or....table saw for sale.....or nice used saw for sale. Many times there will be no picture attached. My point is that in those ads, you don't really know what they have unless you write/call and ask. I can tell you from personal experience that there are some GREAT deals on fine machines that are poorly listed on CL.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I have another analogy... :D

If I was going to print 1000 sheets from a printer per day at home, then I'd get a commercial model konica minolta laser printer that can handle the speed and capacity of 1000 sheets per day.

Though if I was going to print a couple sheets per WEEK. Then a Canon inkjet printer will be just fine.

Sure the Konica Minolta does everything better and faster... but it will cost more electricity, make more noise, take up more space, and be a bigger investment.

But I suppose if you think you're going to use it, then go for the investment... :)

[Bob Haskett]

Got the drawing done of my shop. There is hardly any room for anything so everything needs to be on mobile bases. I do have the option of not parking my truck in the garage, but my wifes car has to be in the garage.

[Stephen Edwards]

Got the drawing done of my shop. There is hardly any room for anything so everything needs to be on mobile bases. I do have the option of not parking my truck in the garage, but my wifes car has to be in the garage.

Hey Bob,

Yes, mobile is the way to go! As I look into my crystal ball I can see your truck moving to the driveway as you build your collection of tools. Another possibility, though I've yet to find any, "might" be Murphy Machines; the same concept as Murphy Beds.

Seriously, you wouldn't believe the nice shops that people have set up in even less space than you have. One guy here on the Creek was posting a few months back about his "shop" that was set up in a bathroom in his apartment, in NYC IIRC.

[Stephen Edwards]

I have another analogy... :D

If I was going to print 1000 sheets from a printer per day at home, then I'd get a commercial model konica minolta laser printer that can handle the speed and capacity of 1000 sheets per day.

Though if I was going to print a couple sheets per WEEK. Then a Canon inkjet printer will be just fine.

Sure the Konica Minolta does everything better and faster... but it will cost more electricity, make more noise, take up more space, and be a bigger investment.

But I suppose if you think you're going to use it, then go for the investment... :)

Now, THAT puts things in perspective. My guess is that Bob, like many of us, probably ain't gonna be "printing 1000 pages per day". Excellent analogy, Chris!:D

[Bob Haskett]

Is the Steel City I posted "printing 1000 sheet" realm?? Or is that more of an inkjet?

Knowing so little about these machines is so intimidating. I mean here I am looking to make a ~$700 investment, and I wouldnt even know how to set it up when I got it. Sure there is a manual, and I would figure it out, but trying to pick something out that will be a "rest of my life" machine is tough to do having never used a table saw.

[Randy Walker]

Hi Bob
Were practicly neighbors. I live just south of the GM plant. That "Steel City" sounds real nice for the money. A few granite facts: never rusts, never warps, dead flat, non magnetic, hardness scale 8 (diamonds 10 and rubys 9) it should last.
What ever you choose pm me and we can get togother to share some ideas. I have been a WW for nearly 30 years and have some great contacts for wood.

Best wishes

Randy Walkerhttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. Any of you other Mid-Tenn WWs want to get togother I would love to meet you. PM me and and we can figure it out from there.

[Bob Haskett]

Hi Bob
Were practicly neighbors. I live just south of the GM plant. That "Steel City" sounds real nice for the money. A few granite facts: never rusts, never warps, dead flat, non magnetic, hardness scale 8 (diamonds 10 and rubys 9) it should last.
What ever you choose pm me and we can get togother to share some ideas. I have been a WW for nearly 30 years and have some great contacts for wood.

Best wishes

Randy Walkerhttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. Any of you other Mid-Tenn WWs want to get togother I would love to meet you. PM me and and we can figure it out from there.

If I stood on my back deck, and threw a rock, I could probably hit the GM plant. So sounds like we are definately neighbors. Considering you have been doing this for 30 years I would love to get together and learn some of the basics if you were interested.

[Randy Walker]

I am retired name the time and I'll be there

Randy

[Stephen Edwards]

Bob, I doubt that that saw is a 1000 sheets per day machine. But, it's plenty of saw for your needs and goals, if I understand you correctly. I think it's probably a machine that will meet your needs and then some. Properly set up and tuned and as your skills develop, you should be able to do just about anything that you would want to do with that saw or one similar to it.

Oh, putting them together is half the fun of it! And, you get to know your machine a little bit. I bet some of the guys in your area would be glad to give you a hand putting it together if you needed/wanted some help.

[Bob Haskett]

Bob, I doubt that that saw is a 1000 sheets per day machine. But, it's plenty of saw for your needs and goals, if I understand you correctly. I think it's probably a machine that will meet your needs and then some. Properly set up and tuned and as your skills develop, you should be able to do just about anything that you would want to do with that saw or one similar to it.

Oh, putting them together is half the fun of it! And, you get to know your machine a little bit. I bet some of the guys in your area would be glad to give you a hand putting it together if you needed/wanted some help.

You in Hilham? That is up by Standing Stone State Park no?

[Scott Hildenbrand]

That is a fine saw from what I've seen. My understanding is the Ridgid with the granite top at HD is a re-labeled Steel City saw and from my experience so far, the granite table is STABLE and very HEAVY. Even the wing by themselves are quite a bit to lift.

All in all, I'm more than happy with this "lesser" hybrid saw and I'm sure you will be thrilled with your full cabinet Steel City saw.

Tell me though, have you EVER done any woodworking? I remember shop class in school.. Good times.. Just wondering why you're wanting to get into it? What's the motivation? ;)

[Matt Armstrong]

+1 on the table saw.

[Roger Benton]

Bob,
first, I will add a vote for a table saw over a band saw.
second, I will stick with the ts over the other options like guided circular saws, etc.
that steel city saw looks like a lot of saw for the money. I read a favorable review a little while ago in a good wood working magazine about steel city's granite topped products. If 90% of what you'll be cutting is sheet stock and 4/4 lumber or less, I would go for it. They have a lot of thin kerf blades out now that take less oomph to cut, letting a saw with less hp hold it's own. But, if you see yourself going to larger stock in the reasonably near future (and especially with your newfound budget increase) I would lean towards holding out for a deal on a used 3hp cabinet saw. As someone said earlier in this thread, you may want to expand your search area, cast a wide net. Great deals are out there.
Good luck, and welcome to both the craft and the smc community.

[Stephen Edwards]

You in Hilham? That is up by Standing Stone State Park no?


Correct. I'm about 10-12 miles from Standing Stone and maybe 15 miles from Dale Hollow Lake. My place is actually a little closer to Celina than the the metropolis of Hilham.

[Jerome Hanby]

I'd be more worried about stumbling and loosing a hand, if you're that accident prone.. ;)

I'm rock steady when the power is on:D. It's the stupid stuff that goes on after that bites me.

[Bob Haskett]

I also have a chance to get the Ridgid R4511 for $500. So I may hop on that deal as well. Seems to get some decent press.

[Paul Johnstone]

I already have plans to get 2 Makita drills (1 impact driver and one drill).


Since money is tight, just get one solid corded drill. Cordless are convienent (until the batteries die) but it's much more cost efficient to get a corded one. You really don't need an impact driver. Again, nice to have, but focus on other stuff first.

[Paul Wunder]

Bob,

Like most, I would recommend a table saw and I would suggest that you consider the following saw by Sears Craftsman:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922114000P?vName=Tools&cName=Bench+%26+Stationary+Power+Tools&sName=Table+Saws#descriptionAnchor

It will fit your budget at $699 (on sale now) plus shipping is local and cheap.

More importantly, this saw is a scaled down version of the Sears "zipcode" saw (22140) that has been reviewed very highly by many writers and owners.

I am NOT ordinarily a Sears fan, but I own the 22140 and its little brother is a well designed, quality saw that you can use for years. Essentially, it has the same guts as the 22140. It is made by a subsidiary of Steel City (Orion), has an inboard 1 3/4 hp motor, enclosed cabinet with 4" dust port, and cabinet mounted trunnions (makes squaring the table to the blade very easy).

I have had my Sears 22140 for three years now: no problems, holds its settings and cuts well.

Just a thought

Paul

[GERALD HARGROVE]

Bob,
If you are ever in the area on the weekend, give me a call. You can feel free to stop by my shop and try out some tools and get what little advice I have to share. Good luck and welcome to the creek.

[Bob Haskett]

Tell me though, have you EVER done any woodworking? I remember shop class in school.. Good times.. Just wondering why you're wanting to get into it? What's the motivation? ;)

I have built a few things over the pass few months and have just gotten really inspired. I do not have an true hobbies, my wife has always wanted to get into finishing and stuff, so it is a great chance for us to learn a new hobby together. I have always wanted to get into it, and enjoy building things, so it just seemed logical.

[Bob Haskett]

Bob,
If you are ever in the area on the weekend, give me a call. You can feel free to stop by my shop and try out some tools and get what little advice I have to share. Good luck and welcome to the creek.


Thanks for the offer. That would actually be something I would be interested in taking a dedicated trip to clarksville to do. Most of the machines I am looking at getting I have never used. Any saftey tips, tips on general use, and just any advice I can get is welcomed. At this point I am just a sponge trying to soak up what I can.

[Bob Haskett]

Bob,

Like most, I would recommend a table saw and I would suggest that you consider the following saw by Sears Craftsman:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922114000P?vName=Tools&cName=Bench+%26+Stationary+Power+Tools&sName=Table+Saws#descriptionAnchor

It will fit your budget at $699 (on sale now) plus shipping is local and cheap.

More importantly, this saw is a scaled down version of the Sears "zipcode" saw (22140) that has been reviewed very highly by many writers and owners.

I am NOT ordinarily a Sears fan, but I own the 22140 and its little brother is a well designed, quality saw that you can use for years. Essentially, it has the same guts as the 22140. It is made by a subsidiary of Steel City (Orion), has an inboard 1 3/4 hp motor, enclosed cabinet with 4" dust port, and cabinet mounted trunnions (makes squaring the table to the blade very easy).

I have had my Sears 22140 for three years now: no problems, holds its settings and cuts well.

Just a thought

Paul


Is this a better saw than the Steel City option?

[Paul Wunder]

Bob,

You need to decide that for yourself, by looking at the Sears unit if it interests you. Both saws are in essence made by Steel City (or subsid.)
The one you saw has a riving knife, which is a very desirable feature, but I have read that the fence was not its strong point. The Sears unit does not have a riving knife and it comes with a standard guard and splitter. It is all cast iron (top and wings) and has the same size top as the SC saw. It also weighs in at over 300 lbs. If you go to the Sears website and read owners comments, you will find that of 40 reviews, I believe that 39 of them were 4 stars or better. That is encouraging because I have read some pretty candid comments on other Sears products.

I would suggest that you try Googling the model number of the SC saw and look for owner comments in this forum or others.

After not going into a Sears store for twenty years, I bought the Sears zipcode saw based on user comments and magazine reviews and I have been very pleased. My saw came with a Leitz brand carbide saw blade which turned to be quite impressive and i still use it. You would need to ask Sears what blade comes with the other model.

[Myk Rian]

Bob;
When I bought my SC saw over a Craftsman, it was the warranty of 5 years that decided for me.

[Bob Haskett]

Bob;
When I bought my SC saw over a Craftsman, it was the warranty of 5 years that decided for me.


Makes sense. I am trying to go around to different stores to get an idea of the footprint the main tools have that I will need. I need to address workshop space before I jump in and grab all these tools. If it looks like I have the room I will move forward from there.

As of now I am leaning towards the SC rig if it is still available when I go to purchase. I believe they said that particular saw, was on sale, not all of them.

[Don Jarvie]

I like the Steel City over the Cman. Closer to a cabinet saw than the CM

[sean m. titmas]

Makes sense. I am trying to go around to different stores to get an idea of the footprint the main tools have that I will need. I need to address workshop space before I jump in and grab all these tools. If it looks like I have the room I will move forward from there.

As of now I am leaning towards the SC rig if it is still available when I go to purchase. I believe they said that particular saw, was on sale, not all of them.

there was an article in the winter 04/05 special edition of FWW # 174 about shop layout and it used scaled cutouts of the machines and their footprint needed to handle wood to figure out the layout of the shop on paper before you started moving heavy machines around the shop.

i attached the page with the machine footprints so you can cut them out and use it to plot your shop layout on graph paper.

[Chris Tsutsui]

If your shop is a 2 car garage and u still want one car in there occasionally, then you'll need mobile bases on everything.

Then when it's project time, park the car outside, roll tools into position and work away...

[Josh Satterlee]

I think the greatest "bang-for-the-buck" tool (until I got a 1.5hp TS for $50) was my router set. My list would go:

1. Circ saw
2. Router set
3. Drill (or drill press)
4. Table saw (I would wait to get one with at least 1.5hp AND a "real" fence
5. Lunchbox planer
6. Start building a good, dedicated workbench
7. Band saw
8. Jointer

[Matt Stiegler]

If I were in your shoes, there's one question I'd be thinking about really seriously: if I buy a saw that's probably plenty good enough -- but a step down in some respects from what most folks here at SMC have or want -- am I going to be looking to upgrade 3 months from now?

If the answer to that is yes -- if you're going to see your saw and think "compromise" until the day you upgrade, even if your saw does every single thing you ask of it -- then buying new is going to cost you a couple hundred dollars. Because if you get a good deal on a used saw you can sell for what you payed when you upgrade.

If the answer is no, then I think buying one of the saws you're looking at makes a lot more sense.