Need an OS upgrade?

[Dan Hintz]

I realize this isn't exactly laser-related, but I thought it might prove useful to those who use Windows as their laser control OS.

From now until Jan 3rd, if you have a valid .edu email account (I used my alumni email), you can advance order a copy of Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade (32- or 64-bit) for $30. I chipped in the extra $13 for a hard CD. Downloads start (and CDs ship) October 22nd.

See here:
http://www.win741.com/

[Darren Null]

Every pirate knows.....

Wait until service pack 1 before committing your business to it. Until then it's a toy.

Thankfully, this should in theory be a workable system; with the M$ dog just gone.

95 --> 98
Me --> XP
Vista --> W7

Historically, M$ release a total dog before an OS you can live with...but each new release contains toys you can't live without versus additional M$ brain-damage.

Speaking personally, the only reason that I upgraded from W98 (which I pwned) to XP (which I try hard and don't) is the "plug anything into USB without needing a driver" utility. It'll take a SPECTACULAR toy to shift me from XP.

[Scott M Smith]

I wish I had an .edu account!

[Rob Bosworth]

My son has been running Windows 7 for a couple of months. He has a beta copy and loves it. We were never able to make Vista work worth a hoot. I'll bet we tried installing it and running it as a OS five times. It just kept crashing and crashing and crashing ......... He has been running Windows 7, and he uses his computer a lot more than most of us. He said it has been solid.

Mike, if I remember correctly, Windows 98 was not too bad. Windows ME and 2000 were really buggy. We have never had too many problems with XP. Vista has been a disaster. Let's hope MS Windows is another good one.

(Pretty easy for me to talk about these different platforms. I have a 27 year old computer geek take care of our computer systems. All I have to do is feed him on occasion, watch his dog Cowboy Dan everyday, provide all of the tools he can lose, and provide him with cell phone coverage. Other than that, he is out of the house, and mostly out of our wallets.)

[Dave Garcia]

Sure wish one of the major US/Chinese laser manufacturers would come out with a MAC compatible driver!

I know EPILOG, ULS, and GCC read this forum. I wonder if the Chinese "read" this forum as well. ARE YOU LASER COMPANIES LISTENING/READING???????

Of course I use to believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy!

Dave Garcia :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Brian Robison]

"Of course I use to believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy!"
Um, Rob IS Santa.

[Dave Johnson29]

Sure wish one of the major US/Chinese laser manufacturers would come out with a MAC compatible driver!


For 3% of the computer users? Highly unlikely. :D

I am not sure if it still exists, but drivers had to be approved by Apple and they did not do it for free.

[Tim Bateson]

I use Win7 RC for everything. Not thrilled with Epilog's 64bit driver, but that's a minor issue. Loaded it on my wife's laptop and cannot get the driver for our printer running. Works on my laptop.
Runs faster and cooler than Vista.

[Scott Shepherd]

For 3% of the computer users? Highly unlikely. :D

That might be, but if those 3% of the people are people you're trying to sell product to, you might want to pay attention. Apple sold 2.6 million computers during the 3rd quarter of 2009. So that's roughly 10,000,000 units per year. If I were selling a product that used computers to interface with it, I'm not sure I'd ignore 10,000,000 people a YEAR as a target customer base. Sure, maybe only 1/10 of 1% of those people might be your market. That's 10,000 people. I believe Epilog and Universal combined probably don't sell 10,000 units a year.

In fact, let's run a little further. Average price of a laser is what, $16,000 from those 2? 10,000 x $16,000 = $160,000,000 where I come from. At that level, you wouldn't need 1/10 of 1% to be there, probably more like 1/500th of 1% or even 1/1000th of 1% and you'd be larger than Epilog is right now.

Not sure what Epilog's sales are, but I saw something old several years ago and rated them at a $5,000,000 company? (correct me if I'm wrong, it was old data and could have been inaccurate when I saw it).

I believe I'd be writing drivers for it if it were me. You can sub out programming to India for pennies on the dollar. You couldn't probably have a Mac driver written for less than $20,000.

I'd spend $20,000 to get to that audience.

[Rick Irwin]

What 3% ???
Lets take a survey here of engravers aka graphic designers how many Mac's are being used.
Maybe in corporate world Mac's are less than 10% market share. In the graphic world more like 85% ??

I too urge Epilog & laser companies to release Mac driver.
Hate using PC aka (Piece-a-Crap):rolleyes:

[Scott Erwin]

Every pirate knows.....

Thankfully, this should in theory be a workable system; with the M$ dog just gone.

95 --> 98
Me --> XP
Vista --> W7

Historically, M$ release a total dog before an OS you can live with...but each new release contains toys you can't live without versus additional M$ brain-damage.

Just like Corel used to be...Never buy an even numbered version of Corel.
4, 6, 8, 10 were all crap. Not so much now with X4 (14)...Works well from all I can see :)

[George Brown]

Every pirate knows.....

Wait until service pack 1 before committing your business to it. Until then it's a toy.

Thankfully, this should in theory be a workable system; with the M$ dog just gone.

95 --> 98
Me --> XP
Vista --> W7

Historically, M$ release a total dog before an OS you can live with...but each new release contains toys you can't live without versus additional M$ brain-damage.

Speaking personally, the only reason that I upgraded from W98 (which I pwned) to XP (which I try hard and don't) is the "plug anything into USB without needing a driver" utility. It'll take a SPECTACULAR toy to shift me from XP.

I'm with you. 98 was really nice, but had to switch since programs would not run in 98. Absolutely no plans on going to 7. Hopefully I'll retire from this IT crap before xp bites the big one.

[Darren Null]

I'm on 'Tiny XP' from the XPerience crew. It's a go-faster lightweight racing XP with a lot of the M$ rubbish stripped out. It comes with driverpacks too, so you can install it & it runs on pretty well anything...with only a couple of trips out to get drivers for specific bits of kit.
My laptop came bundled with Vista, so my unofficial upgrade probably isn't piracy. Vista lasted 2 hours. "Of course I'm sure I bloody well want to run it!!!! That's why I pressed the button!!!! %&$$·$%&"

I remember Corel 4. I still wake up screaming....

[Bill Voss]

New forum member here.

There have been very results using the Win 7's release candidate (RC) version (preproduction), much better than XP and Vista. If anyone is interested in more info. on Win 7 you might want to checkout the following Windows Se7en *Official Thread* (http://forums.rampantspeculation.com/showthread.php?t=830) at Rampant Speculation forum.

[John Noell]

Hopefully I'll retire from this IT crap before xp bites the big one. I've been running 7 for quite a while with no problems at all, and love it. I used Vista for year and gave up on it, going back to XP for production. I still get a lot of calls for trouble-shooting XP issues so I run XP in virtual mode. Only takes a few seconds to have XP running inside Win7 with VirtualPC (free). Very handy.

[Tim Bateson]

I use Win7 RC for everything. Not thrilled with Epilog's 64bit driver, but that's a minor issue. Loaded it on my wife's laptop and cannot get the driver for our printer running. Works on my laptop.
Runs faster and cooler than Vista.

Got this print driver working. I couldn't get the print driver to install without hanging. I rebooted and Win7 RC took care of the install. Now the wife is happy.

My assessment: This is the first Windows release I'm actually willing to pay for. The 2nd time I was happy with Release #1 - XP Pro (didn't have to pay for it) & Win7.

[Dave Johnson29]

That might be, but if those 3% of the people are people you're trying to sell product to, you might want to pay attention.

Scott,

I really don't see the issue. Given the cost of computers these days, why not have a dedicated PC on the network for the laser. Send stuff from any computer that you design stuff on.

How many people sit alongside the noisy laser and design stuff. I tossed together a $150pc using the Intel Atom board and it is used as a file server interface between the laser and the office PC (could be a mac, just not in my place :D)

It would be cheaper for the laser people to give you a low end PC than to write the software for a mac. ;):) Also you have an expensive mac sitting alongside the laser and for why?

[Dave Garcia]

One and all,

Didn't mean to reopen the PC vs Mac debate again. But it sure did provide some interesting numbers from all of you. Marketing has always been a big issue in this debate. For those that care to, you might want to have another look at the string I started on this forum titled Mac Compatible Laser.

The real bottom line is the simple fact that every time either Microsoft and or the Corel Draw come out with "program updates" everyone seems to run for the latest and greatest. Is that really necessary???

I like what someone said about setting up a dedicated "computer" for the laser. That's what I've ended up doing, as much as it pains me to go "backwards" from a Mac to a PC again, regardless of this new Windows 7 that has replaced the much "marketed" Windows Vista debacle.

I note with interest someone's comment about having issues with the new Windows 7 with regards to getting his laser to work with it. Imagine that! I know of PC folks still running Windows 95 that are very happy, and without Microsoft support for it anymore. Could it be that I'll be using my copy of Windows XP on my dedicated laser PC for awhile?

I've also noted that there are folks in the laser business that haven't made the switch to Corel Draw X4, and are very happy with X3. Interesting concept don't you think??

It's a funny "profession" that we've chosen. I think I'll be going along with a couple of other folks on this forum when they have said......... if it ain't broke, don't fix it, unless you're the government of course.

Dave Garcia :rolleyes::)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Dave Johnson29]

Didn't mean to reopen the PC vs Mac debate again.


Dave, I was just thinking at breakfast this morning that it would make an interesting Poll to see just how many engravers are using Macs v PCs.

[Dave Garcia]

Dave,

If they are it's with a software package loaded on their Mac's that allows them to run Windows on it. The only "setup" that allows a Mac to be used with any laser comes from the LaserPro folks with their Mac adapter (a $300 to $500 addition to their lasers) and then that additional package only works with Adobe Illustrator and NOTHING else.

Good luck with your poll idea. Maybe one of these days laser manufacturers will decide to accommodate those of us who use the Mac, for whatever reason, but I'm not holding my breath.

Dave Garcia :(:)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Aaron Koehl]

...I believe I'd be writing drivers for it if it were me. You can sub out programming to India for pennies on the dollar. You couldn't probably have a Mac driver written for less than $20,000.

I'd spend $20,000 to get to that audience.


We offered years ago to write a Linux/OS X driver for Epilog.. FOR FREE.. I don't think marketshare is the issue.

[Dan Hintz]

We offered years ago to write a Linux/OS X driver for Epilog.. FOR FREE.. I don't think marketshare is the issue.
As a company, I don't think I would want someone else to have control and/or knowledge of exactly how my driver's work (without a lot of reverse engineering work on their part). Tough to control a market when major pieces of it are in the hands of others. Makes it that much easier for someone to create a DIY machine in their basement, and then sell the plans for cheap.

[John W. Love]

As much as I despise the Micro$oft monopoly, I have gotten used to XP. My laser works fine with it. The thing I hate is that it will look at how much memory you have and say, "I can use all of that". And IT DOES! If I were software savvy enough (I'm not and I respect that I am not enough to not mess with it) I would tweak it to turn off all of the non necessities to save some of that memory. I also would be reluctant to try anything Micro$oft releases until they have had a couple waves of unsuspecting users do the My son loved his apple so much that he actually applied for a job with them and got it.
I know that Google is coming out with their own operating system. From what I know about Google, it will probably have 95% of the bugs out of it when it hits the market, be less vulnerable to viruses and attacks, run more efficient and probably faster than anything that Micro$oft has ever dreamed of releasing. I use Google Chrome for web browsing now and haven't touched Internet Explorer in ages. In fact, at work IE is not an option, you have the choice of Chrome or Firefox.
I wonder if the Google OS will run the laser? I could see myself considering that OS if it was compatible and it lives up to their reputation.

[Curt Harms]

........
I know that Google is coming out with their own operating system. From what I know about Google, it will probably have 95% of the bugs out of it when it hits the market, be less vulnerable to viruses and attacks, run more efficient and probably faster than anything that Micro$oft has ever dreamed of releasing. I use Google Chrome for web browsing now and haven't touched Internet Explorer in ages. In fact, at work IE is not an option, you have the choice of Chrome or Firefox.
I wonder if the Google OS will run the laser? I could see myself considering that OS if it was compatible and it lives up to their reputation.

but isn't Google's O.S. more or less another tweaked up Linux release? I think part of the reason that major software houses don't release software for X'nixes is the plethora of versions out there. If I were them I'd fear a support nightmare. Well, that and the wrath of M$. If there's a well tweaked Linux release by a well regarded entity, life could get interesting. I don't know how Google releasing an OS under the GNU license would work but I'm sure the folks at Google have thought it through.

[Darren Null]

The google OS, as I understand it, is a software layer, not a proper OS. You'll still need something to run it on. Also, the OS is probably to pimp their cloud stuff, so I strongly suspect that instead of pressing "of course I'm bloody sure" all the time with Vista, you'll be pressing "no I don't want to send it to the sodding cloud" with the google thing.

I bet +10 experience points on it.

[Scott Shepherd]

The google OS, as I understand it, is a software layer, not a proper OS. You'll still need something to run it on. Also, the OS is probably to pimp their cloud stuff, so I strongly suspect that instead of pressing "of course I'm bloody sure" all the time with Vista, you'll be pressing "no I don't want to send it to the sodding cloud" with the google thing.

I bet +10 experience points on it.

You left off the EULA that will probably say something along the lines of "by using Chrome, you gives Google the rights to index all data created on Chrome", which means everything you type will be indexed by google in some way. They have a really cool phone system out now, it will forward your calls to various phones, give different messages for various things, and transcribe the messages for you and email them. That's really cool, but by doing that, you've just captured my personal phone call and stored it on your server somewhere.

I seem to recall outrage when the mere thought of being able to listen to someone's call was spoken about. Now people are signing up to give google that for free.

Freaks me out, but I'm paranoid anyway. It's kept me alive this long, so it appears to be working :D

[Darren Null]

On the subject of google; they're about to start to index documents on their cloudy stuff. So if you do use any of their officy apps, now is a very good time to make sure that your docs are marked private.

[Dan Hintz]

I seem to recall outrage when the mere thought of being able to listen to someone's call was spoken about. Now people are signing up to give google that for free.

Freaks me out, but I'm paranoid anyway. It's kept me alive this long, so it appears to be working :D
Hate to burst your "secure" world bubble, Steve, but the government has been listening in to most of our calls for quite a few years now... it's all done via voice recognition (a LOT more advanced than the crap we have on our computers) looking for keywords. The only difference is the government doesn't sell the data to advertisers (though it has been known on many an occasion to allow our personal data to sit out in the open on the web, just like Google).

I've tried one more than one occasion to get a job at the NSA (particularly because they have a main office a few miles from me) doing signal processing work in one of their Signal Intelligence group, but so far have been met with an empty Inbox. Maybe if my current contract doesn't work out I'll try again.

[Scott Shepherd]

Not bursting my bubble at all Dan, I've known that for years. Knew a guy who installed some of the gear out in the field a long time ago. Not too worried about them, but more worried to handing over my privacy to a publicly owned company.

[Dave Johnson29]

I seem to recall outrage when the mere thought of being able to listen to someone's call was spoken about. Now people are signing up to give google that for free.


Yup, scanners for years have had the cell phone frequencies blocked in the US, but as you say, it is now OK by millions of people to give their calls to Google for free, in return for some extra phone functionality.

That's like using treats to train a monkey. :D
"As a dignified living creature sharing this planet, I am outraged you expect me to jump through that tire."
"Oh, a treat you say, well that's different, which direction should I jump from?"
"A somersault thrown in as well perhaps?"

[Dan Hintz]

Not too worried about [the government], but more worried to handing over my privacy to a publicly owned company.
We're funny creatures like that (Americans mostly, I imagine)... we don't like the government spying on us, but we tend to accept it will happen and (for the most part) ignore it. But make it a company that could make money off of the exact same conversation and we get all bent out of shape. Maybe it's because it offends our delicate sensibilities about them making money without any tangible return for us (I almost said "nothing" instead of "tangible", but then I realized quite a few systems work that way.. the stock market could be considered similar in nature if you're not directly investing, but people are still making money off of you).

[John W. Love]

Privacy? What is that? Wait, hold on a sec.... yep found it in an OLD DICTIONARY when it was still in existence.

–noun, plural -cies.
1. the state of being private; retirement or seclusion.
2. the state of being free from intrusion or disturbance in one's private life or affairs: the right to privacy.

HA, those days are long gone. It seems like more and more everyday more information is gathered on us. I am willing to bet the Govt. knows much more about me than I do. When I worked in defense systems the initial background check provided something like 140 pages of information on me. It included going back to childhood and listed everyone that was a neighbor, and some of them they even called and asked what kind of a child I was. I am glad they all lied or I wouldn't be able to get a job at McDonalds lol. Sadly, that was almost 20 years ago, no telling how big that book would be today.
One thing about it though, after age 22 or so, that book got real boring. I pity the fool that would have to read through my last 23 years.

Monday 21, 09, 2009 12:47:32 P.M. Subject was noted sitting at his desk in his underwear making comments on an international Forum that discusses "Laser Engravers (code for laser guidance systems) called Sawmill Creek aka "The Creek" aka "The Forums". Potential security risk level 3 information being released reporting that he is observing us observing him and what we are observing to unknown quantities of national and international masses. Subject is known to communicate with a known British hoodlum who uses the alias Frank Corker, aka Uncle Frank aka Frank the Graphics Bank. Frank Corker is a known international graphics connoisseur with high traffic trading across Europe and the Americas.
We will update on subject again when he gets up in a few moments to "microwave his lunch" (code for assembling anti-govt. monitoring devices).

[Scott Shepherd]

Subject is known to communicate with a known British hoodlum who uses the alias Frank Corker, aka Uncle Frank aka Frank the Graphics Bank.

Shall we call him "The Falcon" from this point on? :)

Very funny John, sadly, I thought I was reading my own story. Except I had to drive to work in my underwear for that all to happen.

[Darren Null]

Lie glibly on the forms, is the best advice I can give. Just because you're ordered to give your real name; doesn't mean you actually have to submit it. The more strident the demands for personal information, the more important it is to throw a spanner in, is my experience.

[Darren Null]

I watched a TV programme -ooh it must have been about 1998- about the most powerful people in the UK. #3 was the head of the MI6 because he could tap into "every email; phone call and text mesage" in realtime.

"Bollocks" thinks I. That ain't real. So I looked it up. Turns up the bit of kit costs 16 million squid (from switzerland) and you have to insert it into the right place in the phone exchange. But yes it's doable. And that was last century.

When governments legislate themselves the right to read your personal email is the time to start using encryption. Or at least SSL. Just on general principles and to make the (fatherless people) earn their money.

I wouldn't be paranoid if they weren't out to get me....

I've tried one more than one occasion to get a job at the NSA (particularly because they have a main office a few miles from me) doing signal processing work in one of their Signal Intelligence group, but so far have been met with an empty Inbox. Maybe if my current contract doesn't work out I'll try again.
Of course, by posting that, you've barred yourself from getting the job. If I were a spookmeister, you would have gone down in the "spreads information- can't be trusted" list.

[Dave Garcia]

Now what was the original question that started this thread????

Dave Garcia :confused::eek::)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Darren Null]

WHAT? SPEAK UP! I CAN'T HEAR YOU THROUGH MY AFDB (http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html)

It was years ago, but at the same time I discovered the above site, I also discovered this one (http://www.well.com/~cynsa/newbutt.html). The two are inextricably linked in my mind. What that says about the state of my mind/memory/need for therapy is left as an exercise for the student. Don't go to the second one if you're having breakfast, but apart from that you're OK.

[Dan Hintz]

...because he could tap into "every email; phone call and text mesage" in realtime.

Turns up the bit of kit costs 16 million squid (from switzerland) and you have to insert it into the right place in the phone exchange. But yes it's doable. And that was last century.
And in this century, all they have to do is place a call or press a few computer keys and the call/email is routed directly to their desk (wiretapping order optional). The resolution of satellite imagery is downright scary these days.

[Dave Johnson29]

On the cell phone subject, is it weird?

Remember 30 years back when people were embarrassed to be seen wearing a hearing aid about the size of a small banana behind their ear? Technology raced ahead to make them so small you can now barely see them.

Enter stage right, the ubiquitous Blue Tooth cell-phone ear piece and mike, worn proudly like a status symbol of some sort. I have seen smaller transistor radios in the dollar store than some of them.

Do people really get that many calls that they have to be ready in an instant for hands free talking even wandering the aisles of the supermarket?

Ahhh, progress eh?

[back on topic]
Dan, what's the advantage of paying extra for the w7 DVD as opposed to just burning one from the download?

[Dan Hintz]

Dan, what's the advantage of paying extra for the w7 DVD as opposed to just burning one from the download?
Instant access to a production-pressed CD? I also find that the downloaded versions of whatever tend to not include all of the "extras", though I can't say if that's the case here.

Besides, I already download a ton of stuff every month, so no need to make Verizon think I'm running a P2P warez network by adding yet another several Gigs of content to the bandwidth counter ;) At some point, they begin to place caps on their "unlimited" plan.

[Scott Shepherd]

Besides, I already download a ton of stuff every month, so no need to make Verizon think I'm running a P2P warez network by adding yet another several Gigs of content to the bandwidth counter ;)

Now we're getting down to why the NSA isn't answering your emails :D

[John W. Love]

WHAT? SPEAK UP! I CAN'T HEAR YOU THROUGH MY AFDB (http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html)

It was years ago, but at the same time I discovered the above site, I also discovered this one (http://www.well.com/~cynsa/newbutt.html). The two are inextricably linked in my mind. What that says about the state of my mind/memory/need for therapy is left as an exercise for the student. Don't go to the second one if you're having breakfast, but apart from that you're OK.

Ok, two thoughts come to mind.
1.) Your hyper paranoid and afraid the govt. is gonna pick your brain and tax you out the butt....
Wait... thats not paranoia, that's reality! Ok forget the hyper paranoia comment.

2.) It appears you do know your head from your butt afterall. See Steve, I told you that you were wrong about Darren. :)

[Darren Null]

:eek::D:D:D:D

[Bill Cunningham]

I also discovered this one (http://www.well.com/%7Ecynsa/newbutt.html). The two are inextricably linked in my mind. What that says about the state of my mind/memory/need for therapy is left as an exercise for the student. Don't go to the second one if you're having breakfast, but apart from that you're OK.

I've often heard (and used) the expression, but I never really thought about anyone actually doing it. And, with such an array of items:D