12'' Jointer...Do I need a planer?

[Matt Sollars]

i currently have a dw735 and no jointer. in my search for a jointer, those 12 inchers would be nice.

If I purchase a 12'' jointer, would i even need my lunchbox planer?

(Assuming all boards will be 12'' or less in width)

matt

i guess this is a ''face jointing'' vs. ''planing'' question...

[Matt Meiser]

There's no way I can think of to get a second face parallel to the first with just a jointer.

[Rod Sheridan]

Matt S, I agree with Matt M, a jointer and planer do different jobs.

A jointer makes planes, (flat, straight surfaces) which is why in Europe it's called a planer).

A planer makes surfaces parallel, (it copies the reference surface onto the second surface), a fixed dimension away. That's why it's called a thicknesser in Europe.

If you only have a jointer, you can make all kinds of cool wedges, however not dimensioned stock for furniture.

Regards, Rod.

[Augusto Orosco]

i currently have a dw735 and no jointer. in my search for a jointer, those 12 inchers would be nice.

If I purchase a 12'' jointer, would i even need my lunchbox planer?

(Assuming all boards will be 12'' or less in width)

matt

i guess this is a ''face jointing'' vs. ''planing'' question...


If you want your board flat and parallel on both faces, you are probably better of with both. If you put a board that is not flat on one face on a planer, the opposite face will end up roughly replicating the hills and valleys of the first face (the planer will make the top face parallel to the bottom face... so if the bottom face is not flat, the top face will not be either).

If instead you joint one face with your jointer and then flip the board and joint the second face, both faces will be flat, but not coplanar (the jointer make a face as flat as its bed).

That's why you should start with the jointer (to make the first face flat) and then go to the planer (to make second face parallel to the already flat face).

Having said that, there are many tricks to make do with only the planer (e.g. planer sled). I am sure you can find more info on that if you search the forums. And there's of coruse the neander way... but that's a whole new slippery slope!

Hope that helps!

[Matt Sollars]

thanks for the help fellas.

another question.....i understand the 'bigger is better' mentality when it comes to jointer width and i'm being sold on a helix head......just from all of the positive comments about them.

last question......

since i'll be needing to 'face joint' lumber to use for furniture....am i limited to boards with a width equal to my jointer bed width?

if i have a 24'' wide table top for example...

6'' jointer: 4x 6''boards, or 2x 12'' boards that i've removed my cutter head cover and flipped the board around. (joint the left face, then the right face)

is this making any sense?

thanks guys.

[Augusto Orosco]

thanks for the help fellas.


since i'll be needing to 'face joint' lumber to use for furniture....am i limited to boards with a width equal to my jointer bed width?

if i have a 24'' wide table top for example...

6'' jointer: 4x 6''boards, or 2x 12'' boards that i've removed my cutter head cover and flipped the board around. (joint the left face, then the right face)

is this making any sense?

thanks guys.

I think that's about right. But bear in mind that if you want to end up with a 6" wide board, you probably need to start with a slightly wider rough board (one edge will have to be jointed, too and the other one ripped) which won't fit in a 6" jointer. So, a 24" wide table top will probably need at least 5 boards (or 3 of you are going to remove your jointer guard and flip the board... something that I would not feel very comfortable doing due to safety concerns, but some people swear by that method).

I ended up getting an 8" jointer and have a 13" lunch box planner. If I ever come across a beautiful board that is beyond 8", I probably would plane if by hand, at least to the point that it doesn't rock in one face, and then run it through the planer (same idea as a planer sled). Of course, if the board is beyond your planer width, you either go full neander or rip it in two.

The fact that I haven't come accross such a board shows how little experience I have in woodworking, so take my advice with a grain of salt :o

[Darius Ferlas]

6'' jointer: 4x 6''boards, or 2x 12'' boards that i've removed my cutter head cover and flipped the board around. (joint the left face, then the right face)

is this making any sense?

thanks guys.
It makes sense and I have seen it done in some youtube flick, although I have my doubts if it would work every time or whether it would be easy (see note below). This requires the removal of the cutter head guard. Since it is there for a reason the practice may not be necessarily a good one. I saw some posts from users on SMC suggesting the jointer with the guard removed didn't look to inviting.

Note:
This is my imagination here, not based on practice or tests but... I'm not sure that having flipped the board so that it now has the rough side on the table will follow exactly the same parallelogram as the side that you have just flattened. The little bumps and valleys are often not uniform from one side of the board to another. That, combined with the possibility of different degrees and angles of warping at the other end of the board, will likely cause the angle of attack to be different between the two longitudinal parts of the board.

I'd simply rip boards to sufficiently narrow widths and I would flatten what my jointer allows, and then glue them back together. A little more work but a little more certainty about the outcome.

If you absolutely need to flatten boards wider than your jointer then use your planer with a sled to feed the material through the machine.

[Chris Tsutsui]

There's a trick to jointing a board so that you can joint a 12" board with a 6" jointer, but it wasn't as simple as flipping a board around and doing the other side.

If you just flip the board then you'll likely mess it up because a jointer tends to add a slight taper.

I think some people use their jointer without the cutter guard. I am one of those persons and my guard has never been used because I found it just got in the way.

Even if the guard is on there... if your hand slips or the board catches, then you can damage your hand. Maybe I'm different but I just felt like I had more control without the guard.

[Rod Sheridan]

I think some people use their jointer without the cutter gaurd. I am one of those persons and my gaurd has never been used because I found it just got in the way.

.

Chris, I like the bridge guard on my Hammer much more than I liked the "pork chop" guard on my General.

Regards, Rod.

[Curt Harms]

I did this once or twice and it seemed to work. Yes you have to remove the guard but the cutterhead is completely covered by the work so I didn't find it TOO scary but still not optimal. I wouldn't feel comfortable with it if the board were more than 2"-3" wider than the jointer. Face joint one side. Put a good flat board or piece ofply/MDF slightly thicker than ridge of the jointed surface. Run the piece thru the planer with the partially jointed side/ply/mdf side down riding on the board/plywood. True up the side opposite the partially jointed side. Take a light cut so the feed rollers don't bend the board more than necessary Remove the board/ply etc. Plane the side that was partially jointed. This is slow but works for a few boards. Others have had good luck with sleds run in planers.

My solution was one of these (http://www.waltermeier.com/us/manufacturing/en/product_jet.html?node=337&product=1444). Not inexpensive but it works very well. The helical head version was not out when I bought mine. This got me a machine with 12" capacity both planing and jointing. Quieter induction motor, didn't take up much space.

[Tom Adger]

The jointer and planer do different jobs. One will not do double duty, and do the job of the other. Period.

With a 735, you have a nice planer. Be happy with it.

As far as a jointer, I personally think a 12" would be overkill, and to get a nice one, the cost would be out of sight. The 6 1/8" might be a bit too small. The best choice would be an 8".

[Kevin Groenke]

Of course you could get a 12" jointer/planer combo if you wanted to eliminate the lunchbox. If you went this way you could get a helical or tersa cutterhead with many alternatives to choose from.
Grizzly, Jet, Hammer, MiniMax, Felder, Laguna, Rikon, ?

We went from 8" jointer to 12" jointer last year and I don't know how we ever managed with an 8". If you spend the extra $ the first time, you'll only spend it once.

[Mike Wilkins]

It would be nice if we Americans adopted the terminology of the Euro woodworkers. Over there, what we call a jointer is called a planer. When you are using a machine to change the thickness of a board, the Europeans call this machine a thicknesser. Planer/thicknesser. Sounds logical to me. Even with a wide jointer(planer) you are still going to need something to take these boards to whatever thickness you want. So if you have a planer now, plan to keep it.

[Rod Sheridan]

We went from 8" jointer to 12" jointer last year and I don't know how we ever managed with an 8". If you spend the extra $ the first time, you'll only spend it once.

I agree, I bought a Hammer A3-31 last year to replace some General equipment, couldn't be happier.

I now have a 12" jointer and planer, boy is it nice to have a 12" jointer.

I'm making two pieces of baseboard that are almost 10" tall for a friend, to match the stuff in his century house.

It wouldn't have fit on my 8" jointer.

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Sollars]

in looking at all the bigger '8'' and up' jointers....i'm really torn by the cutterhead now. Seems like the 'byrd type' heads are nice...but man....they cost ''nice'' too.
if i'm not somebody who will sharpen jointer knives myself, etc. should i be really trying for a 'byrd type' head.....or ami fine with knives?

matt

[John Coloccia]

Both is best, but if I had to choose one or the other, I'd pick keep the planer. You can always flatten a board with a sled in the planer, and you can get a straight edge with a sled on the table saw...albeit, none of this is ideal and is a PITA. The jointer, however, will never do the job of the planer, at least not without a great deal of difficulty and complicated jigs.

[Frank Drew]

There's no way I can think of to get a second face parallel to the first with just a jointer.

Jointer, along with a marking gauge and some hand planes will do it; slow, but effective.

Matt, if you can, get the wider jointer; and, yes, you can deal with boards wider than your jointer (up to a bit less than twice the width) by flipping the board around after each pass. Most people I know who do this work professionally do it all the time if they prefer keeping wide boards wide. It's not a particularly tricky operation, and certainly does the job.

[Chip Lindley]

Matt, shellix vs. knives is at best a trade-off! After 4 shellix *sharpenings* (or re-positioning of carbide inserts) a complete new set for a 12" head will be big ticket! (Admittedly, this may take quite a while for a home shop owner)

HS knives can be easily sharpened at home with simple fixtures. I have used a white cup wheel in my drill press to sharpen planer/jointer knives held in a simple wood fixture for years. Lacking this impetus, the knives can be sent to a reputable reshapening service, charging so much an inch.

At any rate, I assume your lunchbox planer is paid for! Although it is deemed disposable, keep it! You will find it very useful for thicknessing boards jointed flat on your jointer.


It would be nice if we Americans adopted the terminology of the Euro woodworkers. Over there, what we call a jointer is called a planer. When you are using a machine to change the thickness of a board, the Europeans call this machine a thicknesser.

Mike, when America dumps inches and feet for the metric system, perhaps those terms will change. Look at CL or Ebay and see the terms used for both machines. Ignorance (or whatever the machine is called locally) makes one have to look at the photo to make sure It Is What It Is! Joyner/Plainers are still not as bad as Radio Alarm Saws!

[Rod Sheridan]

Ignorance (or whatever the machine is called locally) makes one have to look at the photo to make sure It Is What It Is! Joyner/Plainers are still not as bad as Radio Alarm Saws!

LOL...........That's priceless Chip!..........Regards, Rod.

[Ronald Mancini]

I would opt for an 8 inch jointer because that is the smallest size that comes with long tables. I almost never joint or plane 12 inch boards because they are normally cupped too much, and if I need to I can use my 15 inch planer with jigs to accomplish that task. I slice the wide boards, joint and plane them, and glue them back together. You will not notice the glue joint unless you are looking for it.

Planers are different though; I often plane two rough cut 6 inch boards simultaneously to save time when I make T&G, and a 12 inch planer won't handle the job.

[Bob Peticolas]

Well probably. But if you have a really good bandsaw with a really good blade, you can run the jointed edge on the fence, and true up the other face of your lumber with the bandsaw.