Odd spindle & tail center alignment issues help!!

[Brian Brown]

So a couple of years ago when I read here that my tail center and my spindle center should align closely, I ran to the garage to check, and my Delta LA 200 was perfect. Phewwwww! A year ago, when I started turning pens, I had a problem with the tips away from the headstock being out of round. I read here that I needed a 60 degree tail center. $20.00 later I had said tail center. Problem is, my pens are still out of round ( the full length of the pen), but the problem is not consistent. After much blood sweat and swearing, I found that the tailstock only lines up part of the time. Every time I move the tailstock in, it lands in a different position. No way to accurately measure how far it is off, but I am guessing from the inaccuracy on the pens, that the error is as much as .006.-008in. It could easily be worse. If I lightly push the base of the tailstock away from me while tightening the locking lever, the alignment seems to be better, but it is still hit and miss. Each time I load a pen I have to turn the lathe on and feel for vibration, stop the lathe, try again, rinse lather repeat, ad infinitem. What a pain and time waster. I tried standing on one foot, wearing a red hat under a full moon, with my left pinkie in my right ear, and tossing a rotten egg over my right shoulder while chanting Moody Blues lyrics, but I still get the same results. Now the neighbors watch me closely, and the eggs stink.

Any thoughts on how to get a consistent alignment? When the problem is this bad with a pen, it is much worse with a vessel. It seems that a shim would only work if the alignment problem were consistent. I suggested to SWMBO that we buy some new condiments like Mayo or Mustard. That was a week ago, and she is still giggling.

Any great ideas from the "School of Hard Knocks" crew here?

[Bob Hallowell]

I know your problem-- you should of been chanting ABBA lyrics not Moody Blues it has something to do with the whole Sweedish thing

btw Wrong pinkie also

[Brian Brown]

I know your problem-- you should of been chanting ABBA lyrics not Moody Blues it has something to do with the whole Sweedish thing

btw Wrong pinkie also

Yeah, I think it was supposed to be a brown egg too. @%(%$#. Why do these things always happen to me? :confused: :D

[Joshua Dinerstein]

My advice, I ran into the same problem on my old HF lathe, is to do one of 2 things:

1- I have a wickedly straight mandrel for pen turning. I got wildly lucky with one I bought on the Bay. I used it to lock down the tailstock and to check it's accuracy and I found it helpful.

2- For between $20 and $30 you can find a double ended MT2 mandrel. It will go into the head-stock and the tailstock at the same time. You would extend the center screw of the tailstock as far as possible, insert the double-end MT2 adapter, lock the 2 together tightly and you will be in line. Lock down the tailstock and headstock (mine was turnable) then retract the center of the tailstock (quill?!!?) and insert the pieces you want to work on. Should make things extremely accurate.

Joshua

[alex carey]

did you try cursing in another language? I find that helps.

[Brian Brown]

For between $20 and $30 you can find a double ended MT2 mandrel. It will go into the head-stock and the tailstock at the same time. You would extend the center screw of the tailstock as far as possible, insert the double-end MT2 adapter, lock the 2 together tightly and you will be in line. Lock down the tailstock and headstock (mine was turnable) then retract the center of the tailstock (quill?!!?) and insert the pieces you want to work on.
Joshua

Sounds like an easy solution for pens. A few questions:

Where does one find such a double headed beast?

Also, does the MT2 on the tailstock end come off for turning, and get replaced by the 60 degree center or does it stay on in place of the tailstock center?

Is there a similar gizmo to get the tailstock alignment accurate when turning vessels of varying lengths?

[Brian Brown]

did you try cursing in another language? I find that helps.

My spanish is a little rusty, and my neighbor (Mexican) came over and asked me why I was screaming at the top of my lungs for Pizza Hut to deliver me a turnip, saurkraut and anchovy pizza.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Here ya' go Brian..

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=lathes-acc-mrstool

[Brian Brown]

Here ya' go Brian..

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=lathes-acc-mrstool

I've seen this before, but isn't it just used to re-align the headstock after rotation, and it assumes that the tailstock will always tighten down with the same consistent alignment? In order to get this out (and put any type of turning in), I would have to move the tailstock, and then it may be out of alignment again? Maybe I'm just not getting it. On the plus side, If I can't put anything else between centers, the garage will stay a lot cleaner. :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Brian,

I think what the gentleman was suggesting was to extend your quill as far as possible. Using this tool, align the headstock and the tailstock. Lock both of them down to the bed. Then retract the quill and insert your mandrel to turn pens.


Have you tried removing your headstock and cleaning the bottom? I had a similar issue with mine and I found some splattered finish material was stuck to the bottom of the tailstock. I cleaned the bottoms of both the headstock and tailstock and it resolved the issue.

I have one of those tools BTW. It was given to me recently by a guy whom I introduced to turning. He is a Creeker BTW.

[Brian Brown]

Brian,

Have you tried removing your headstock and cleaning the bottom? I had a similar issue with mine and I found some splattered finish material was stuck to the bottom of the tailstock. I cleaned the bottoms of both the headstock and tailstock and it resolved the issue.

I have cleaned the underside of the ways, but didn't think to clean the bottom of the tailstock because it was sliding well. I know what I'll be doing tonight when I get home! I was wondering where that other half of my balogna sandwich ended up. There also might be a little CA from some sloppy pen finishing.

[Mark Burge]

Maybe I'm missing something Brian, but isn't that double ended mandrel what Ken linked you to?

[Brian Brown]

Maybe I'm missing something Brian, but isn't that double ended mandrel what Ken linked you to?

I don't think it is ?!? I think it is just an alignment tool.

Wait, I'm really slow on the uptake! Yes, and I understand how extending the quill will make it possible to get the double MT2 out. Now if there was just something to allow a variable distance between centers (my quill only allows 2" of travel), my problems would all be fixed.

[Richard Madison]

Brian,
Do you have a dial indicator with a magnetic base? It would still be a PITA to "indicate in" the tailstock live center point, but maybe less hit or miss.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Being out of round doesn't have anything to do with the tailstock not lining up.
Or, having your tailstock not lining up with the headstock, doesn't make the turning out of round.
I can take a precision metal lathe and move the tailstock over, it will make for a tapered turning as the tool moves in a straight line with the ways, doesn't make a oval or out of round turning though.
To get something to become oval or out of round, the turning or your tool has to move while turning, it is the only way for that to happen.

[Curt Fuller]

My Delta Midi also has a sloppy tailstock. The only one of your solutions that I could try off hand was the one where you stuck your left pinkie in your right ear. You must be a lot more limber than I am because when I tried it I just got a charliehorse in my neck and it didn't do squat for lining up the tailstock. I don't turn many pens but I use a pen mandrel to turn the body of the ornaments I make. I found that using this adjustable mandrel http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Pen_Making___Pen_Making_Tools___Adjustable_Pen_Man drel___adjust_mandrel?Args=
and only extending enough of the shaft to fit what I'm turning leaves less chance for it to be off center. I mount what I'm turning, slide the tailstock forward and give it a nudge until it's centered on the mandrel, lock it down, and extend the quill just enough to give light pressure against the mandrel. If you know what I mean. The adjustable mandrels just seem to be straighter and have less wobble than the cheaper ones.

Also, try to make cleaner cuts and do less sanding. Any time you're working on wood with the grain parallel to the lathe, as you sand you take wood off faster from the face side of the grain than the edge side of the grain resulting in an oblong shape.

[David Christopher]

Being out of round doesn't have anything to do with the tailstock not lining up.
Or, having your tailstock not lining up with the headstock, doesn't make the turning out of round.
I can take a precision metal lathe and move the tailstock over, it will make for a tapered turning as the tool moves in a straight line with the ways, doesn't make a oval or out of round turning though.
To get something to become oval or out of round, the turning or your tool has to move while turning, it is the only way for that to happen.

Leo is exactly right, I would check the bearings

[Brian Brown]

Leo is exactly right, I would check the bearings

Ok, this one is getting interesting. I hadn't thought of the bearings, because I check the headstock bearings occasionally, and they are fine. As for the tailstock, the Wood River 60 degree center I got recently has a bearing retaining ring that keeps coming out when I am turning. I just screw it back in when that happens. The bearings haven't come out, and I haven't checked the center when the retaining ring comes loose. Is this possibly the problem? If so, how do I fix it to keep the retaining ring from comming out? I thought of locktite, but I am afraid there is too much chance of getting it in the bearings. Any other ideas?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Another source of out of round problem could be too much tailstock pressure on your mandrel, which causes it to flex. OR, if you have the mandrel that has setscrews and the shaft, don't bottom out the shaft, (much like not bottoming out a router bit) I THINK heat from turning can cause the mandrel shaft to expand enough to flex. Having the shaft not bottomed seemed to help that. Along with minimal tailstock pressure.

If your bearings are bad, I would imagine they would make noise.

[robert hainstock]

It could be as simple as too tight on the tail stock. This will often bend the mandrel which is long and skinny. A bent mandrel almost always shows up in out of round blanks at the tailstock end. It only has to support the mandrel, so I just snug it up lightly. Good Luck. :)
Bob

[Jeff Nicol]

Brian, If you put the mandrel and all the parts and bushings on into the headstock and rotate it slowly you should see no wobble at all. If there is wobble then either it is bent, not seated in the MT on the headstock, or to much pressure on the nut holding everything in place. On my old beater that I converted to VS the tailstock will move side to side about 1/16"! This is what is happening to you when it always ends up in a different spot. You can make a mark on the lathe when everything is lined up and make sure you hit that spot each time when turning pens or shim the tailstock clamping plate to get a truer fit. Hope all of our suggestions help!

JEff

[David E Keller]

Agree with the posters that your mandrel shaft could be the problem. I've gone to using the 'B' shaft from Arizona Silhouette when possible... It's a bit beefier. I make a ton of cigar pens and it's one of the kits for which larger bushings are available. Just like the bushings, mandrel shafts are probably only good for so many pens before they need to be exchanged. I usually buy the mandrels with removable shafts... I think it may save me a few bucks in the long run over having to replace the entire mandrel.