TS rails, any regrets?

[Rick Moyer]

I know, given the room, longer rails would be nice. I know you can slide the rails to the right some to increase the rip capacity. I know it depends how much you will need the extra rip capacity.

I wonder what % of you who have opted for the shorter rails would change your mind now?

I'd like to get a new saw soon and am considering my options. The occasional need to cut sheet goods crossways can be done with a circular saw and guide, but creates a lot of dust mess. I'm weighing the benefits of longer rails vs. the lost space. If you have limited space but still have longer rails, does it work for you, or are you considering cutting them down? I know the benefits, but has it been worth the bigger footprint?)

[Matt Stiegler]

I'd have loved to be able to get longer rails (I got a G0690 instead of a 691), but it just wasn't feasible in my narrow basement shop.

[Bob Elliott]

In 2003 I bought a 12" Bridgewood cabinet saw with a 52" fence. I wouldn't trade the long rails for short rals.

I put a router lift in the extension and built a router cabinet beneath it that also supports the extention. Next to that cabinet I made a cabinet that houses my Dewaly planer. I just finished a cabinet above that that has a large drawer that houses all my table saw and measurement tools.

If you use the space wisely longer rails can be very effective at saving space.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I opted for 32" rails instead of 52". I regularly regret it.

I can't see ever needing 72" rails (I wouldn't want to try to crosscut a sheet of ply on the TS, anyways), but having 52" rails would fill my needs 99.999% of the time.

[glenn bradley]

My favorite answer; it depends. I don't use near the sheet goods that I thought I would. I still have sheet product I bought 3 years ago. I didn't know starting out where I would end up. Even the casework I have done isn't large both directions, like lower kitchen cabinets for example. I just haven't ended up doing those sorts of pieces.

To add to Dan's statement. I frequently found the 30" rip capacity of my Beisemeyer to be troublesome. However, now that I've moved the tube and have 40" I have yet to have a problem (although I'm sure its out there waiting).

[Cary Falk]

I had 36" rip on my contractor saw. I got a 52" on my RT Unisaw but shifted it left so I would have 24 left and 42 right. I never used the 24 on the left for bevel cuts like I thought. I seem to make quite a few things around 4' long like benches, cedar chests, etc where it is convient to square one end and the rip to length. I ended shifting the rail back to the right. Much more storage area also.:D

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I enjoy the 52" rails. It gives me room to work on the other side of the fence, to set up the cuts. And I have my router in the extension wing.

[doug faist]

Rick - when I got my saw several years ago I had the idea that "longer is better" so I opted for the 54" rails. Can't tell you how many times I've regretted it. Not once have I ripped a piece of sheet goods to 48". I have it cut down at the yard or do it with circular saw and guide, as you mentioned.

My biggest regret is the loss of space. That extra 18" of rail is always sticking out and getting in the way. I built a chest of drawers that fit inside the rails and gave me a really big space on the right of blade; but it just becomes another flat space, accumulating junk and needing to be cleared if I'm going to use it as intended.

I have plans to trade the long rails for short but I need to find a round tuit first.

Just another opinion.

Doug

[Jason White]

I have the 36" rails for the Biesemeyer fence on my cabinet saw. My shop is a one-car garage, so the 52" rails are just not an option for me (I have to dance around the end of the rail to get around as it is).

That said, I can't imagine ever really "needing" the 52" rails. Of course if I had the room I'd probably get them just because I could. But I don't usually cross-cut very long stock on my tablesaw. I generally use my circular saw and guide rail (Festool TS55 if you care) to cut full 4x8 sheets of plywood down to size. Long moldings and longer boards I cross-cut on my miter saw.

Jason


I know, given the room, longer rails would be nice. I know you can slide the rails to the right some to increase the rip capacity. I know it depends how much you will need the extra rip capacity.

I wonder what % of you who have opted for the shorter rails would change your mind now?

I'd like to get a new saw soon and am considering my options. The occasional need to cut sheet goods crossways can be done with a circular saw and guide, but creates a lot of dust mess. I'm weighing the benefits of longer rails vs. the lost space. If you have limited space but still have longer rails, does it work for you, or are you considering cutting them down? I know the benefits, but has it been worth the bigger footprint?)

[Rod Sheridan]

I ordered my saw with 32" rip capacity, which is more than I ever use....Rod.

[scott gunnell]

I have the 30" Bies model, and hardly a day goes by that I don't wish I had more. This coming spring I have plans for a large outfeed/side/extension table monstrosity, when I will probably bump my tube 10" to the right, if i don't just replace it.

And there are some who wish they had never bought it. If any of you are out there that HATE your long tube and want a short one, let me know, I will trade in a heartbeat and will make the deal sweet as I can.

[glenn bradley]

I will probably bump my tube 10" to the right, if i don't just replace it.

Scott, bump your tube first. There's no drilling or anything involved. Maybe a power switch relocation depending on your saw. You may find it to be all you need, as I did. I do not know what took me so long to do something so easy.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I built my Biese clone. I went with 36" to the right of the blade. This gives me the ability to cut end panels for base cabinets, which is very important to me.

[John Thompson]

My current came with 52" rails. As soon as it was set up I cut them down to 42". I do have a SCMS with extentions that can be slid out to cut 16' stock so there are no regrets on cutting them down for me as the 52" tighteed up a traffic pattern on that end of my TS between the end and my Cyclone. The extra 10" clearance was all I needed.

I don't use ply except for dust backs and drawer bottoms and those 3 sheets a year get cut down with a circular to manage-able size before finalizing on the TS..

[Philip Rodriquez]

I've had both. My first TS was a DeWalt Hybrid with 32" rails. It did everything I ever needed it to.

My current TS, an ICS SS, has 52" rails and it also does everything I need it to.

IMHO, either would be fine. I think it all depends on how muc space you have. I say go with whatever works.

[Matt Stiegler]

Scott, bump your tube first. There's no drilling or anything involved. Maybe a power switch relocation depending on your saw. You may find it to be all you need, as I did. I do not know what took me so long to do something so easy.

Well, I just talked this through with Griz technical support, and on my G0690 (same saw OP is considering IIRC), shifting the rails would actually be a bit more involved than that.

On the front rail, you need to unbolt the rail bar from the angle iron, shift the rail bar over, and then drill and tap new holes to connect the bar to the angle iron. Shifting the angle iron relative to the table would be more work (grinding new channels for the miter slots in the angle iron, drilling and tapping into the table itself).

On the back rail, you would need to either (1) drill and tap new holes in the angle iron and the table and wings, or (2) replace the back rail with a freestanding extension table, so long as the edge against the saw is rabbetted to the depth of the miter slot for the back of the fence to ride on.

The tech support guy, who was very helpful, did note that all of this hole-creating might void the warranty as to the rails (not but the entire saw).

All do-able, but definitely not as easy as it sounds like it is on some other saws.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I regularly use more than 30" but hardly ever use more than 40". I have the Shop Fox G9220 fence with 7' rails. I have a 70's vintage Unisaw. I regularly use the fence to the left of the blade, though.

My main complaint about the long fence is that it is difficult to make the saw stable on a mobile base. I'm going to have to fabricate a new one.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

My main complaint about the long fence is that it is difficult to make the saw stable on a mobile base. I'm going to have to fabricate a new one.

I mark the garage floor where the saw goes, and set the extension leg height. If you put the saw back in the same spot all the time, no need to constanly adjust the legs/height/casters. Every time I use the saw, I have to move it, and still like the extra room the long fence gives. It's my workbench.

[glenn bradley]

Well, I just talked this through with Griz technical support, and on my G0690 (same saw OP is considering IIRC), shifting the rails would actually be a bit more involved than that.

On the front rail, you need to unbolt the rail bar from the angle iron, shift the rail bar over, and then drill and tap new holes to connect the bar to the angle iron. Shifting the angle iron relative to the table would be more work (grinding new channels for the miter slots in the angle iron, drilling and tapping into the table itself).

On the back rail, you would need to either (1) drill and tap new holes in the angle iron and the table and wings, or (2) replace the back rail with a freestanding extension table, so long as the edge against the saw is rabbetted to the depth of the miter slot for the back of the fence to ride on.

The tech support guy, who was very helpful, did note that all of this hole-creating might void the warranty as to the rails (not but the entire saw).

All do-able, but definitely not as easy as it sounds like it is on some other saws.

Yikes. On a Bies you just take the screws out that hold the tube, shift right 10" and put the screws back in. That's it unless you want to change your power switch mounting holes like I did. There's no need to move either rail.

Looking at the exploded parts diagram for the G0690, there may be a need to drill new holes in the front rail for the screws that hold the tube from below but, I see no need to move the rail. I'm not arguing with the Griz guy, I'm just speaking as someone who has done it on a Bies ;-)

P.s. I thought I had to move the rails too until someone who had done it explained it.

[Gary Curtis]

My first saw, a Canadian-made General with a sliding table, provided 52-inch rails and an extension table.

You are on the right track if you are considering a portable saw with a track (such as the Festool) for the few times you'll have to cross cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I have a Festool and love it for cutting sheetgoods --- primarily because it is both easier and safer to carry the tool to the wood than to wrestle a 45lb slab onto a table saw.

Space in a workshop is vital. Here's my take on extension tables and the longer rails. An extension table soon becomes a collector of junk. There are better places for your hand tools than on valuable space occupied by an extension table.

My new saw is an INCA from Switzerland. The reason I bought it that the fence rails are adjustable. They are gripped in a dovetail cut into the underside of the cast tabletop. A quick flip of two locking levers, and you can slide them from left to right, thus making a transition of the fence from either side easy. Super for bevel cuts.

Get the shorter rails. Get a rail-guided circular saw for cutting large sheets.

Gary Curtis

[Matt Stiegler]

Looking at the exploded parts diagram for the G0690, there may be a need to drill new holes in the front rail for the screws that hold the tube from below but, I see no need to move the rail. I'm not arguing with the Griz guy, I'm just speaking as someone who has done it on a Bies ;-)


Yes, I agree (and the Griz guy would agree) you don't have to move the front rail (the angle iron). My post was unclear, what I meant to say was moving the tube is the better approach instead of moving the rail, not that one had to do both.

The back rail is a different story. There, you do have to move it on the 0690. Unless you just replace it with a longer extension table, which seems to me like the better solution.

[David Hostetler]

I have a Ryobi BT3100 with the wide table kit (Right rip capacity of 72"). It really does take up a LOT of space in the shop. I have built a table top for it, and have been able to use it as more workspace when need be... Overall I am glad I got the wide table. It is well worth it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

That said, I can't imagine ever really "needing" the 52" rails. Of course if I had the room I'd probably get them just because I could. But I don't usually cross-cut very long stock on my tablesaw. I generally use my circular saw and guide rail (Festool TS55 if you care) to cut full 4x8 sheets of plywood down to size. Long moldings and longer boards I cross-cut on my miter saw.

Jason

I have 52" rails. Not sure I have ever "needed" it - circular saw + CMS as noted. However - the TS + extension table are about the same length as my primary workbench, and they are adjacent with surfaces same height + plane - gives me a second assembly/staining/varnish surface. Basically, I wanted the table that length, so decided I might as well get the rails. I think the best answer is how much space can you afford?

[Tim Reagan]

I'm in the process of building kitchen cabs, and moved my tube on my 1023 Grizz to the R about 8 inches. I have a few cabs that are 38" and my uppers will be 42, so an extra 10" would have been nice many times.

[scott spencer]

There's no way I can get 52" rip in my shop, but I have slid the shorter rails to right on my last two saws for 40" and 36" respectively....no regrets about that.

[scott vroom]

I ordered my saw with 32" rip capacity, which is more than I ever use....Rod.

Rod, kit cabs typically require >32" ply stock. How do you handle these with 32" capacity?

[Norman Hitt]

Yes, I agree (and the Griz guy would agree) you don't have to move the front rail (the angle iron). My post was unclear, what I meant to say was moving the tube is the better approach instead of moving the rail, not that one had to do both.

The back rail is a different story. There, you do have to move it on the 0690. Unless you just replace it with a longer extension table, which seems to me like the better solution.

If "YOU" can weld, just remove the back "Rail" and align and weld a short length (of whatever dimension you need) to the end of it and bolt it back on. If YOU don't weld just take it to a welding shop and have them cut a matching piece of angle and weld it on for you, then you can bolt it back on your saw using the same holes and you're set to go.

[Bill Arnold]

When I got my Jet tablesaw a few years ago, I never considered anything less than the 52" fence system although my "shop" was half of a two car garage at the time. I got a mobile base for it and for other tools. For cutting lengths greater than 52", I use a panel sled.

[Paul Ryan]

Until march this year I owned a saw with 30" capacity. There were numberous times that I wished it was more. In march I bought a new saw with 36" capacity, actually you can squeez out 38" in a pinch. Since I have owned that I have never wished or needed anything larger. The extra 6-8" made a world of difference. I didn't got with the 52" to start with because frankly I dont have to room. My saw gets parked up against a wall when not un use and when in use the extra 16" makes a world of difference as far as space goes. Since I am a 1 man shop most plywood gets ripped down to manageable sizes with a straight edge and circular saw before hand.

If you have the room where the saw will sit stationary all of the time, I would go with the larger rails. If you don't cut plywood that often and space is a premium in your shop I would go with the 36". Unless you are cutting plywood all of the time I don't think you will miss the extra capacity that 52" will give you. But IMHO 30" is too small.

[Cody Colston]

It's better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.

If you have the room, get the 52" rails.

[Don Morris]

I built my router table into a planned table extension to the right (Grizz 1023). Almost came to the right wall in my small shop. That router table developed a sag. Don't ask. Now have a separate router table. Guess what height it is? Yep. the exact height as the TS. Slides right in between the rails. Only because I got a great deal on a good (top of line Bench Dog) router table top and couldn't figure a satisfactory way (to me) to attach the independent router table top to the TS. If you got the space, better to have and not want than to not have and wish you need. I found the bigger need for me was the outfeed table I took years getting around to build. That!!! was a real help after I got it made. It really takes up shop space, but of the two "space takers"...I'd give up the wide rails rather than my outfeed table. I use that a lot. I used to put it down. Now it's up almost all the time.

[Tony Bilello]

My very first table saw had smaller bars - cant remember but I think about 24". After about 1 month of woodworking, I bought the 52" Unifence.
I build furniture and could not live without the 52" bars. There are occasions, like a few times a month, that I wish I had larger. Even when I was working at hobby level I needed the 52" bars.
Attached is a photo of a 12' wide mini-storage unit I rented for a hobby shop. As you can see, the 52" bars were butted against a wall. Never once did I think about going smaller.

[Ron Bontz]

Well just a thought. I originally bought a 38" Bies. then moved it over so the Left side was flush with the left side of my Uni. I replaced the stick on tape and now I have a 42". Perfect for me most of the time.:)

[Rick Moyer]

you are all welcome to continue this thread for others to read. I purchased the G0691(longer rails) the other day. Haven't got it unloaded/unpacked yet. Thanks to all for their responses.

[scott vroom]

I'm just gettting started in woodworking and have a couple of dumb questions: What situations would require 52" TS cutting capacity? If I opt for the G0690, how will I be limiting my ability to make furniture? From the numerous comments above, it appears the longer rails allow cutting of 4x8 sheet stock. Are there other situations where the long rails are desirable?

I'm also deciding between the G6090 and G6091. I have a small shop area so space is important, however I don't want to buy a saw that will seriously limit what I can build.

Thanks-

[Cary Falk]

I'm just gettting started in woodworking and have a couple of dumb questions: What situations would require 52" TS cutting capacity? If I opt for the G0690, how will I be limiting my ability to make furniture? From the numerous comments above, it appears the longer rails allow cutting of 4x8 sheet stock. Are there other situations where the long rails are desirable?

I'm also deciding between the G6090 and G6091. I have a small shop area so space is important, however I don't want to buy a saw that will seriously limit what I can build.

Thanks-

I find them great for cutting large wood panels(not necessarly plywood). I have built a 4' hope chest and it was helpfull cutting the top, bottom, front and back to length. I am now working on an entertainment center for a friends plasma TV. It has been very helpful with the dados. I have a circular saw and a straight edge which would do the same thing. I also have a jig for the router to make dados. Sometimes it is easier to use the table saw. I didn't have the long fence when I made our bedroom set. I wish I did. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, kit cabs typically require >32" ply stock. How do you handle these with 32" capacity?

Hi Scott, I'm not sure about the 32" kitchen cabinet dimension, is that the cabinet height?

If it is, then it's not a rip cut, so I cut it with a sled, however soon I'll have a slider. (Cabinet saws only do one job well, rip.)

I know that people cut gables to length with the rip fence, however my first question is, what did you make the first reference cut with?

A rip fence makes things parallel, not square, so you would have to start with a cut on a slider or sled, then make the second cut on the rip fence.

If you have a slider, or a sled, you don't use the fence, so its capacity is not material to the croscutt operation.

Regards, Rod.

[Kelly Craig]

I've lived both worlds and am living them right now, since I have my portable saw for site work and my cabinet saw for the shop. At first, all I had was a portable and that limited what I could do. While I could push the saw's limits, it was enough hassle I just set up jigs and used skill saw. All it cost was time. A lot of it.

With my 52" fence, I don't think twice about wide cuts up to capacity. Narrow cuts scare me more. I'll make a six inch cut off the end, since I have good side and back support, but will still look to a skill saw for smaller stuff.

When I'm not making wide cuts, it's a great horizontal surface to park things on, then remove them, then park them, then........

I wouldn't dream of going back to a small fence. If I doubt that, all I have to do is make one wide cut and I'm happy with the loss of the extra room again.

[Rick Moyer]

You don't really "need" longer rails. You can always cut sheet goods down to a manageable size with a circular saw and straight edge first. I don't like the amount of dust generated by my circular saw (that I can't begin to capture) so I decided I want to be able to use my table saw for cutting larger panels. I opted to sacrifice some of my space for this ability. I hope I don't regret giving up that space. Time will tell.

[johnny means]

I am in the minority here, but I wish both my saws had less rip capacity. My slider has about 70" of rip which will only come in handy the day I need to crosscut a 12' sheet of plywood or MDF in half (hasn't happened in 10 years). On the flip side I wish for that extra 2' of clearance, that I could have if I cut a bunch of table and fence off my saw, everyday. My cabinet saw (Sawstop ICS) has the "short" rails, I think they're 36" and once again I would love to gain that extra foot or so of aisle that a 24" rail would afford me.


Granted, not everyone has a big slider, but even if I didn't I would still hold to the school of thought that crosscutting is never done against a rip fence. It just causes to much binding and IMO doesn't work as well as some sort of sliding mechanism, be it a sled, full size slider or anything in between.

Don't forget, also, that when crosscutting against a fence like that any discreprancy in your panels squareness will be paralleled in the resulting cut.

I would choose to get one of those Jessem sliders over wider rails if I was building a shop centered around a cabinet saw. This would give me plenty of crosscutting capacity in what I think is a safer, more precise (square your own ends), more space friendly manner.