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Steve Clarkson
09-12-2009, 5:53 PM
So I learned how to use an airbrush yesterday...........

I made the attached on white ceramic tile using cermark for tile and glass. I was please how it came out for my first time.

But it raised a question for me......what is the advantage/disadvantage of using cermark on ceramic verses using paint......BESIDES the cost!!!!

And thanks to Frank for the photo.

John Noell
09-12-2009, 10:14 PM
VERY nice Steve. I would try the airbrush if I wasn't so clumsy. :) (Despite MANY MANY hours of 'extra' practice, I failed penmanship and drafting every single time. Thank God for computers!)

lisa farrell
09-13-2009, 3:21 PM
Hi Steve.The image is great, my question, is it a regular with cermark or laser engravable tile. Robert

Martin Boekers
09-13-2009, 4:11 PM
Dang that looks nice Steve, I have not had much luck with the Cermark for glass and tile.

It's been a couple years since I worked with it, I know they have a newer version that should be better.

Is the tile coated or glazed (standard wall tile) or unfinished?

For tile work I've been using the laser transfer paper, it has been coming out nice. Quicker and cheaper that laser. Continious tone and color also!
Like everthing else though it has it's limits. I use these stricktly for decorative purposes. (much cheaper than dye-sub alternatives)

Keep up the good work!

Marty

Joe Pelonio
09-13-2009, 7:56 PM
I have done tile with paint, and never had a problem with it even outdoors by spraying one-shot then engraving off the background. The only issues is that on some tiles it leaves the surface duller so you have to laser over the edges so the whole thing is the same. With the cermark, of course, it's the opposite, you engrave the image and the remainder washes off. Cost
is a big factor when doing large or large quantity jobs.

Dee Gallo
09-13-2009, 8:01 PM
Congrats on learning how to use an airbrush, Steve! Looks like you did it correctly, those tiles tiles came out well.

Personally, I love the look of black Cermark on white or ivory tile - it is much like a good pen & ink drawing, and has that nice tactile feature. But with spray paint, you have the option of any color you like, so each has its use and place. Good to know both techniques.

I think you might have some fun learning how to airbrush for real, using masks to spray different Cermark colors onto different areas, then laser and see what you've done! Something like a ceramic glaze.

Post your pix, :) dee

Steve Clarkson
09-14-2009, 7:34 AM
Congrats on learning how to use an airbrush, Steve! Looks like you did it correctly, those tiles tiles came out well.

Personally, I love the look of black Cermark on white or ivory tile - it is much like a good pen & ink drawing, and has that nice tactile feature. But with spray paint, you have the option of any color you like, so each has its use and place. Good to know both techniques.

I think you might have some fun learning how to airbrush for real, using masks to spray different Cermark colors onto different areas, then laser and see what you've done! Something like a ceramic glaze.

Post your pix, :) dee

It was a regular HD tile....nothing special about it.

Joe, that's interesting about engraving off the background......I never tried that with a photo on tile......I typically would take a black tile, paint it white and engrave the areas I wanted black.......but you're suggesting taking a white tile and painting in black and engraving the white parts.......I wonder if that would look better.....I'll have to try it.

Dee, my airbrush experience was just that....an experience! It required 3 trips to the store to get the right parts to get it working.....silly me, I bought the "Deluxe Air Brush Kit" and assumed it would work right out of the box!!!

After I finally got it hooked up and turned on, I couldn't figure out why nothing was coming out.......so I turned it around and took off the cap!!!!! LOL!!!!!! Then the spray was pencil thin and I thought covering an 8" tile would take an hour! Somehow, after working on that one tile for 45 minutes, and when I was almost done, it just started spraying beautifully.....so I did 4 more tiles in about 30 seconds. Not quite sure what I did differently, but I took advantage of it while I could! So that's why my post said I "learned how to use an airbrush" rather than "hey, I just bought a new airbrush at the store".

Since Cermark does come in different colors, and since they suggest that you can literally make multi colored tiles, I was planning to try that......but I guess I need to figure out how to do it in Corel first.....ie. so I engrave just the black areas, then just the red areas, then just the blue areas......anyone know what that technique is called and can point me to a utube tutorial on it? Has anyone ever posted something on the Creek showing something that they did with it?

Dan Hintz
09-14-2009, 8:20 AM
Steve,

You're thinking of color separations, and that's the way processes like Atomic Arts are done. Make sure your registration is spot on.

With your airbrush, you probably had some form of contaminant in there clogging up the tip... possibly even a chunk of dried Cermark. Even the cheapy $10 Harbor Freight sprayers are adjustable to a minor degree for spray pattern. I would never attempt to do fine work with a HF gun, but it's perfect for covering tiles and such with large surface areas. That 8x8 should only take you 15-30 seconds to coat.

Dee Gallo
09-14-2009, 8:49 AM
Steve,

Theoretically you would make a mask. I've cut airbrush masks with my laser before, it's possible. It's just like cutting vinyl letters only you don't weed it until you are ready to use that empty spot. And you don't throw away the weeded mask, since you need to replace it when you change colors.

So, a little experimenting will get you cutting through the masking tape without really marking the substrate. That would probably not be a problem with metal or tile. The harder way is the cut it flat and transfer it to the substrate. I've done it with frisket (airbrush mask like contact paper) and used transfer tape to move it to the substrate too.

Since the laser will create a thin line when cutting, you should spray the black first if you want outlines.

Then, you remove the areas you want to be say red, spray with red cermark, then cover with mask. Continue with each color. Remove all masking and laser as usual. When you wash it off, the colors should all be in place.

I used to teach students to mark their masks with colored markers or pencils so they get every piece of each color. It can be horrible to miss one. Plus, if you go in the right order, you will not have to replace the mask. The order would be: black, purple, blue, green, brown, red, orange, yellow. If the colors overlap a little, it won't affect the outcome by much, it just enhances the underlying colors. But this requires some brush control.

It gets tricky when you are dealing with a curved surface, both getting the mask to lay flat and true to the shapes, as well as the laser setting for curves, as you well know. There is a liquid frisket which when dry acts like a solid tape, made for doing tanks and such. It's normally cut with a knife, I don't know how it would react to laser cutting. If I had some, I'd try it for you. But I've been airbrushing helmets and tanks so long I don't sweat using regular masking tape, frisket, contact paper, etc. so I've never gotten any. Flat tile should pose no problems.

Okay, now you've got me thinking about this and maybe I'll have to look into buying colored Cermark...

cheers, dee

Steve Clarkson
09-14-2009, 10:54 AM
I guess I was assuming you wouldn't need a mask......since any Cermark that isn't lasered will just wash off. For example, if you were doing a multi-colored striped zebra.....spray black, engrave zebra outline, wash, spray red, engrave red stripes, wash, spray blue, engrave blue stripes, etc.

Would that work?

Dan Hintz
09-14-2009, 11:15 AM
I believe Dee is suggesting laser everything at once (which would be faster than a multiple pass scenario) by making sure all colors are already in the correct spot. The "image" to laser would then be a simple B/W with every color changed to black.

This method trades off complexity throughout the process (continually realigning the substrate after each color spray) for complexity at the beginning (realigning each mask after every spray), with the advantage of laser speed.

Steve Clarkson
09-14-2009, 1:10 PM
I believe Dee is suggesting laser everything at once (which would be faster than a multiple pass scenario) by making sure all colors are already in the correct spot. The "image" to laser would then be a simple B/W with every color changed to black.

This method trades off complexity throughout the process (continually realigning the substrate after each color spray) for complexity at the beginning (realigning each mask after every spray), with the advantage of laser speed.

Gotcha! Less Cermark would be needed too!

I wonder what would happen if you sprayed red Cermark, then sprayed yellow on top of that THEN lasered away.......would you get orange? Wishful thinking I guess.

Dee Gallo
09-14-2009, 1:56 PM
I believe Dee is suggesting laser everything at once (which would be faster than a multiple pass scenario) by making sure all colors are already in the correct spot. The "image" to laser would then be a simple B/W with every color changed to black.

This method trades off complexity throughout the process (continually realigning the substrate after each color spray) for complexity at the beginning (realigning each mask after every spray), with the advantage of laser speed.

Correct, Dan. This is my take on it: the less times you have to register an item the better.

Once you learn how to manipulate an airbrush mask, it's not very hard. In fact, on metal, I use paper masks and magnets which are really easy to handle. Just plan on getting your fingers dirty when you have to hold small pieces that want to fly away. BTW- there is only one mask needed, you simply use the various parts at different times while spraying.

I know you could mix the colors ahead, Steve, but I would have to try the overlapping to see how it would work. I would assume (danger!) that a light coat sprayed over with a light coat of something else would mix in the eye, like CMYK does on magazine photos. This is what I think must happen with the Atomic system. I would start with the "darker" color underneath and overspray with the "lighter" colors (see my list from the previous post for the order).

cheers, dee

Bill Cunningham
09-15-2009, 8:57 PM
I guess I was assuming you wouldn't need a mask......since any Cermark that isn't lasered will just wash off. For example, if you were doing a multi-colored striped zebra.....spray black, engrave zebra outline, wash, spray red, engrave red stripes, wash, spray blue, engrave blue stripes, etc.

Would that work?

That must be a zebra as described by Timothy Leary? (hmmm maybe he was before your time, and I'm dating myself.. pass me another sugar cube ;))

Steve Clarkson
09-15-2009, 10:57 PM
You don't have multi-colored zebras in Canada? I see them all the time down here!