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View Full Version : LV japanese dovetail chisels



jim hedgpeth
09-10-2009, 3:51 PM
I'm still procrastinating about some "Good" chisels. The wife has given me an "order" to find some good ones("Do I have to Dear?":D) so I'll stop grumbling at mine. My cheap stanleys (not old enough:mad:) take a good edge but dull as soon as they see wood. I have looked at the Matsumura cabinet chisels several times, and will probably go with them. I do wish he made a skew chisel to go with them though.

Now for the ???

Any body have these
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=54872&cat=1,41504

Just wondering if they are tapered all the way to the sides, and if they are worth the $$.

Sounds kinda high to me considering these
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&dept_id=12775

Thanks,
Jim

Chris Friesen
09-10-2009, 6:46 PM
Chris Schwarz has a writup of a number of different chisels at http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/LNChisel/LN_chisel1.asp and you might want to check that out before buying. There was a relatively recent test in FWW as well.

Partly because I got a good deal on them I ended up getting a set of the Lie-Nielsen chisels with a single long handle for paring. Haven't had a chance to use them a lot yet, but so far I'm happy.

As for the LV ones you linked to, the sides do come down to a sharp edge (that's why they're advertised as dovetail chisels) and that style can be a bit tricky to use with a top-clamping guide because of the triangular shape.

You might take a look at the selection at Tools for Working Wood. They've got lots of different chisels available. The Blue Spruce chisels are amazing as well.

Dave Schwarzkopf
09-10-2009, 7:03 PM
but I do own the LV set you linked to. They can be honed very easily, and mine retain their edges well, but they are not my go-to chisels. I much prefer my Barr's or Lie Nielsen's for daily use, but I hold the Japanese set in reserve for when I just want to mix things up. If you're stuck on Japanese styled chisels, you may want to read:

http://www.sauerandsteiner.com/archive/2007_04_01_archive.html

If I were to get a Japanese set, I think these would be it. Before you mention it, I understand that I have a chisel problem, (and a plane problem, and a saw problem, did somebody mention a slope???) I'm actually expecting the new Blue Spruce set to arrive on Monday, If you're interested, I'll let you know how those hold up to the others

Fred Krow
09-10-2009, 7:26 PM
My suggestion for dovetails is the Blue Spruce chisels.

http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/images/PW-chisels_web.jpg

http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?listcategories


For the heavy duty work, I like the Matsumura Blue Steel bench chisels.

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/japanesechisels.htm

Regards,
FK

Mike Henderson
09-10-2009, 8:20 PM
Japanese chisels have the advantage of being harder (generally) than western chisels so they may hold an edge longer. But I've used all kind of chisels to make dovetails and about the only difference is that some don't hold an edge as long as others. With dovetails, the thing that beats up the chisel is chopping out the wood. To make the edge last longer you can use a higher bevel angle for the chisel you use for chopping and a lower bevel angle for the chisel you use for paring to shape.

Mike

Danny Burns
09-10-2009, 9:14 PM
Japanese chisels have the advantage of being harder (generally) than western chisels so they may hold an edge longer. But I've used all kind of chisels to make dovetails and about the only difference is that some don't hold an edge as long as others. With dovetails, the thing that beats up the chisel is chopping out the wood. To make the edge last longer you can use a higher bevel angle for the chisel you use for chopping and a lower bevel angle for the chisel you use for paring to shape.

Mike

Good advice! I'll second that!

Any of the chisels listed will do a way better job, than what you were using before.

I myself like the balance and feel of the Lie-Nielsen chisels.
The Blue Spruce are nice too, so you see it's a win win call for you!

Phillip Pattee
09-10-2009, 10:01 PM
If you are looking for chisels that taper all the way so that there isn't a flat area on the side, well most chisels just don't taper that much. Not even the Japanese dovetail chisels. Blue Spruce and Ashley Iles MkII chisels come pretty close though.

I noticed that your order was for "some" good chisels. Is that a blank check?:rolleyes:

Jerry Gerard
09-10-2009, 10:13 PM
http://www.sauerandsteiner.com/archive/2007_04_01_archive.html

If I were to get a Japanese set, I think these would be it.


Do you know who carries these Chuttaro Imai chisels ?

Dave Schwarzkopf
09-10-2009, 10:47 PM
I'm trying not to laugh; I googled 'Chuttaro Imai' trying to find at least a website, unfortunately no prospects and my original post on this thread was the #6 hit. This does not bode well. If I were you I'd email Konrad and ask where he picked his up, while you are at it, if he happens to have any old beater planes of his lying about, I'll be happy to take them off of his hands!

Wilbur Pan
09-11-2009, 12:08 AM
Do you know who carries these Chuttaro Imai chisels ?

Those chisels were called "sword steel chisels", and were carried by Misugi Designs back when they were in business. Imai also made a "regular" line of chisels which are just awesome. I have the regular line.

Hida Tool (http://www.hidatool.com/shop/shop.html) carries the regular Imai chisels, which are referred to as the "Fujihiro" brand chisels. You might try giving them a call to see if it's possible to order the sword steel chisels. Or you could get the regular ones. They really are great chisels.

Pam Niedermayer
09-11-2009, 1:06 AM
You can get Imai chisels from Hida; but they're called Fujihiro. Also, you can probably get them from Iida in Japan. Also, So (Soatoz) can probably get them. The Hida version isn't the one Konrad has, although perhaps Hida can get them, which I'd bet he got from Misugi Designs, no longer in business.

However, I think Konrad is wrong about why they're called dovetail chisels. I think it's because they're shaped like dovetails, not that they're specially made for dovetail work.

Akio and Michio Tasai also make great chisels and are available from Tomohito Iida.

I'd also note that $70 per is not a high price for Japanese chisels, expect to pay more like $90 for the smaller chisels. This doesn't have to be a disaster on a limited budget, just get over buying sets, buy the one or two you need right now.

Pam

PS Sorry, Wilbur, didn't mean to copy your message, which wasn't there when I started my response

David Gendron
09-11-2009, 1:22 AM
To my taste, I realy like the Blue Spruce chisels! The LN are ok but not the first one on my list. I have a friend that have the Barr one and just swear by them... Buy one of each brand of hight end chisel and you should have anought for a good set and more! That way you can chose the best one for you! I think it is like good saws these days, so many options in terms of hight quality saws that in the end it's a mather of persenal preferences!
Good luck with your "blank cheque"!

Terry Beadle
09-11-2009, 10:04 AM
I vote with Pam. Anything below a $100 for a sword steel chisel is a real bargain. I say that with an ouch but followed by a quick smile when I reflect upon the performance of the 1/2 inch paring chisel. Even cocobolo submits.

I use my set of Ashley Islles set with a 35 degree micro bevel the most but I tackle tough paring jobs with the sword steel and the Blue Spruce. For the money, Blue Spruce comes closest to sword steel and delivers great performance for me. BS really gives you a great tool for the price.

I gifted my brother a LN A2 cryo and am waiting for a report from him.
( That's a hint Steve! )

What ever you pick of the sword steel, A2 LN - cryo or Blue Spruce non-cryo, or the Ashley Islles, they will work very well.

jim hedgpeth
09-11-2009, 1:06 PM
OK guys I don't know about the whole blank check thing.:rolleyes: More like make up my mind and we'll get them a couple at a time. I wish we had the money to just buy them all now.

So right now I am thinking start with the Blue Spruce dovetail chisels, for fine work. It sounds like they are the way to go for fine work, dovetails etc.

Continue using my Stanleys for chopping and other rough work until I can get a few Matsumura blue steel cabinet makers chisels.

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&dept_id=12775

From what I understand the Matsumura chisels can be pounded on (within reason) and hold their edge in hard or abrasive woods.

I'm not going to worry about a mortising chisel till I start doing more mortises.

Whats with all the skew chisels being 3/4 + 1". The only ones I seem to be finding in 1/4 - 3/8 are Blue Spruse. http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SK.250
And these Takahashi
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/J!06.000.htm (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/J%2106.000.htm)

The Blue Spruse are pretty, and pretty high for a "specialty" chisel I wouldn't use much. The Takahashi would be on the high end of my price range. Does anyone know if MHG, Two Cherries, or any in their $$ range make 1/4 - 3/8 skew chisels?
I will probably make a couple out of junk chisels I have around. My only concern is they wont hold an edge very well compaired to the new ones.

Thanks for the replies everybody,
Jim

jim hedgpeth
09-11-2009, 1:11 PM
Just a crazy thought here, but if I make a handle why couldn't something like this be used as a skewed paring chisel?
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.042.10&dept_id=13219

:confused: Just a thought.

Jim

Mike Henderson
09-11-2009, 2:04 PM
Just a crazy thought here, but if I make a handle why couldn't something like this be used as a skewed paring chisel?
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.042.10&dept_id=13219

:confused: Just a thought.

Jim
I have a couple of sets of those but I use them primarily as knives. The problem I see with using them as skews for dovetails is that the skew angle is pretty acute. You might not be able to really cut anything in the back corner of a dovetail - you might wind up only being able to poke the wood.

As knives they work well. I use them for cutting veneer when doing small parquetry. The laminate back is hard so the edge lasts pretty long, and they're not too hard to sharpen. But I use the 1/2" ones. Any narrower and they're a bit hard to hold in my hand. The price represents the low volume. If everyone bought these, they'd probably be a couple of dollars each.

Mike

Pam Niedermayer
09-11-2009, 4:20 PM
Just a crazy thought here, but if I make a handle why couldn't something like this be used as a skewed paring chisel?
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.042.10&dept_id=13219

Jim

For paring you don't need a handle for that tool.

Pam

Pam Niedermayer
09-11-2009, 4:25 PM
OK guys I don't know about the whole blank check thing.:rolleyes: More like make up my mind and we'll get them a couple at a time. I wish we had the money to just buy them all now....
Jim

I bought a set of Japanese chisels when I first started using Japanese tools. I've regretted it ever since as I followed roughly your logic (probably that of everyone who first gasps at the their price) to make the decision. It's actually to your advantage that you can't/won't buy a set now.

I'd also suggest that Blue Spruce quality is probably too good to be considered a starter set.

Pam

Phillip Pattee
09-11-2009, 8:00 PM
Jim,

In the $$ price range, Ashley Iles makes skew chisels.
Here are 3/8” skew chisels from Ashley Iles.
http://www.thecraftsmangallery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=W/PROD/36-100 (http://www.thecraftsmangallery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=W/PROD/36-100)
and 1/4” fishtail skew chisels from Ashley Iles.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IL-100-30.XX&Category_Code=TBBC (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IL-100-30.XX&Category_Code=TBBC)
Lie-Nielsen has ¼”, 3/8” and ½” skew chisels
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A!CBSQ.htm (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A!CBSQ.htm)

I think all of these are affordable.