Brand new Grizzly G0691 - the tunnion bounces on startup

[Frank Shannon]

Are table saw motors and blades supposed to bounce up and down when you push the start button? Just bought a new G0691 and noticed it had a pretty wicked shudder on startup. Opened the hood and found that the motor was literally bouncing up and down for a second when I push the start button. There is so much slop between the worm gear and the sector teeth that you can push the motor toward the back of the saw and part of the trunnion that holds the motor mount and the arbor assembly will move. The whole arbor assembly and the blade goes up and down when you do this.

Is this normal? Should there be that much slop? Tech support tells me there is no way to fix it and I'll just have to live with it. Of course the nickel test is out of the question.

I know, I know. You're gonna saw, "Serves you right for going with a lower end brand." But shouldn't a $1300 table saw from any maker be able to pass the nickel test?

[Chuck Wintle]

Are table saw motors and blades supposed to bounce up and down when you push the start button? Just bought a new G0691 and noticed it had a pretty wicked shudder on startup. Opened the hood and found that the motor was literally bouncing up and down for a second when I push the start button. There is so much slop between the worm gear and the sector teeth that you can push the motor toward the back of the saw and part of the trunnion that holds the motor mount and the arbor assembly will move. The whole arbor assembly and the blade goes up and down when you do this.

Is this normal? Should there be that much slop? Tech support tells me there is no way to fix it and I'll just have to live with it. Of course the nickel test is out of the question.

I know, I know. You're gonna saw, "Serves you right for going with a lower end brand." But shouldn't a $1300 table saw from any maker be able to pass the nickel test?

that does not sound right. a table saw trunnion should not bounce up and down. I would call customer service back and speak to a different person.

[Myk Rian]

Tech support tells me there is no way to fix it and I'll just have to live with it.
That's a bunch of you know what. Get the saw replaced.

[Frank Shannon]

That's a bunch of you know what. Get the saw replaced.

Well, I like this saw, at least the idea of it. I'm sure they'll take care of me on it. I'd rather get this one fixed, the top is flat and that's a big deal. In the end they may be the ones that insist on replacing the whole thing rather than have me install a replacement trunnion.

I'm just curious about the worm and sector being this loose. I was wondering if that is common. Should the weight of the motor hold the blade in place. It's a heavy motor.

[Stan Mitchell]

Naw, that's not normal. You've got something weird going on.

My G0691 is rock solid from start up to shut down - no play or wiggle anywhere that I've noticed.

[John Harden]

No, it shouldn't be loose like that. I can't imagine that it is safe to use in that condition as the blade would be all over the place. Talk about arbor runout?!!!! :eek:

Grizzley is an importer (not a manufacturer) and isn't known for quality control. Makes buying from them hit or miss. On the upside, they seem to try to make up for it with good customer service.

You might want to call back and ask to speak to a team lead or supervisor, then explain the problem and why it isn't safe to use the saw. I'm sure they'll take care of you.

Regards,

John

[Chris Tsutsui]

That doesn't really sound safe... That type of play or movement might lead to other problems.

[Frank Shannon]

Naw, that's not normal. You've got something weird going on.

My G0691 is rock solid from start up to shut down - no play or wiggle anywhere that I've noticed.

A Grizzly guy just called. He's concerned about safety too. Want's me to take the top off and inspect it. He said the slop shouldn't be there.

How hard would it be for me to replace the trunnion if they sent a new one?

[Jim O'Dell]

I would think the trunnion is held on to the saw body by 4 bolts. But I wonder, I've heard of some taking the shipping bolt and brace off the motor, and failing to put the bolt back in. (Not just on Grizzly products) I would think that might cause some movement that shouldn't be there. Just a thought.
I guess my other thought is to make sure the trunnion is bolted down tight. I would think even if the motor moved, the trunnion shouldn't. In other words, you shouldn't see the blade move up and down. Like the others said, don't use it until you get to the answer. Jim.

[Peter Aeschliman]

You shouldn't have to be concerned about replacing anything yourself. IMO, you shouldn't even have to bother taking the top off of the thing...

At the very least, they should send a technician to you and have them do all of the investigation and parts replacements.

You're not being hard enough on them!!! :)

[Chuck Wintle]

how do you know the trunnion is at fault?

[Frank Shannon]

how do you know the trunnion is at fault?

It's pretty much got to be. You can jiggle the motor and see the play between the teeth on the sector and the screw teeth on the worm. The belts are isolated from this. They can't effect the interface between worm and sector regardless of belt tension.

And now I've heard from G0691 owners and Grizzly tech support and both say this is not right. And this afternoon, for the first time, safety has surfaced as an issue. The Grizzly people are worried that the trunnion may be cracked and I've heard safety concerns expressed in replies here and on the Lumberjocks forum. I knew there were G0691 users on this forum and that one. And guess what they all love their saws. There were two exhaustive and very favorable reviews on Lumberjocks.

And you know what's really ironic? The reason I have this saw is because my Ridgid R4511 was recalled. They couldn't get a tech out to me so they offered a replacement or a refund. I took the refund. I figured sooner or later I would move up to a 220v saw so why not do it now save having to set up and tune now and again at some later date. Fate had taken a hand so to speak.

If something like this is going to happen it will happen to me. Poor Grizzly, they never saw it coming. As I've said, that's what you get when you take orders over the phone from anyone with a valid credit card. Well, their stuck with me now. I'm going to need a drum sander one of these days, who do you think I should pick on? I can hear them now, "You know Mr. Shannon, our competitors make some very good models. Maybe you ought to shop around some more. Or do everybody a favor and check out Craigs list."

[Josiah Bartlett]

I hear you there... I just had the 6 speed manual transmission rebuilt on my car at 35,000 miles... and then it leaked and they had to do it again, all under warranty.

Seriously, slop in the worm is a safety hazard since the saw blade can climb in the cut. If it climbs too far it could take out your fingers or something. At best it means that dado cuts are imprecise. I'm glad Grizzly is making good... you got a bum saw. At least you noticed it.

[Jacob Mac]

Did you call Grizzly CS again? Or did someone from Grizzly notice this post? It seems really odd, and dangerous, that someone from Grizzly CS told you that the saw was within spec.

[Frank Shannon]

I hear you there... I just had the 6 speed manual transmission rebuilt on my car at 35,000 miles... and then it leaked and they had to do it again, all under warranty.

Seriously, slop in the worm is a safety hazard since the saw blade can climb in the cut. If it climbs too far it could take out your fingers or something. At best it means that dado cuts are imprecise. I'm glad Grizzly is making good... you got a bum saw. At least you noticed it.

When the nickel fell over when I turned it on with no blade on the arbor I noticed it alright.

I hadn't thought of the climbing issue but that but it sure might happen. Yikes. And it won't get better as time passes will it?

[Frank Shannon]

Did you call Grizzly CS again? Or did someone from Grizzly notice this post? It seems really odd, and dangerous, that someone from Grizzly CS told you that the saw was within spec.

I don't know. I hadn't really thought it through myself. I was worried about the quality of the cuts and long term effects of the bouncing on the guts and of course showing off the nickel test to friends. That was until I read some of the replies here and then a second person called from Grizzly who was concerned about safety, very concerned. I'm pretty well spooked at this point. Discretion is the better part as they say.

[Frank Shannon]

Grizzly is going to replace it. It's not feasible to repair it.

[Rick Moyer]

If something like this is going to happen it will happen to me. Poor Grizzly, they never saw it coming. As I've said, that's what you get when you take orders over the phone from anyone with a valid credit card. Well, their stuck with me now. I'm going to need a drum sander one of these days, who do you think I should pick on? I can hear them now, "You know Mr. Shannon, our competitors make some very good models. Maybe you ought to shop around some more. Or do everybody a favor and check out Craigs list."

:DThat made me laugh. I hope you get this resolved quickly and easily. I have been coveting that saw since it debuted. Seems like a great value, plus having a riving knife. I thought I wanted an older PM66 or UNI, but the 0691 looks like a better idea because of the riving knife. We won't mention that other "safe" saw that I can't afford (I know, 'how much are your fingers worth'...):D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Grizzly is going to replace it. It's not feasible to repair it.

Frank...and that's a good thing.

We hear on the web about the one's like yours that have problems. Typically you don't hear about all the ones that arrive new and work as advertised out of the box.

Grizzley years ago had a bad reputation for quality. The company has worked hard to improve their reputation by improving the quality of their product and providing good customer service. Today Grizzly has a reputation of a good product for the buck.

But things still happen.....whether one slips through the QC process at the plant.....vibration during shipment......mistreatment during shipping...poor quality of packaging....things still happen. These things happen for all companies.

Grizzly will stand behind it and they will make it right...I'm sure.

I have no relationship with Grizzly. I own one Grizzly sander.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Glad to hear they're resolving it. I guess the only downside for you is your time... having to take another day off of work and having to spend so much time on the phone and investigating the saw's issues.

You're a patient man!! I could learn a thing or two from you! :p

[John Harden]

Grizzly is going to replace it. It's not feasible to repair it.

Glad to hear they're taking care of it. Are they also paying for the shipping of the new one and the return of your old one?

Makes me wonder how something like this slips through their QC process. Minor issues happen to all manufacturers, but what you describe is not minor. I don't see how they could miss it assuming they actually powered up the saw and let it run.

Regards,

John

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

It was probably manufactured in Taiwan and shipped half the way around the world. It may have tested fine there and damaged occured during shipment.

On the shipping expenses.....I'll bet they cover it all.

[Frank Shannon]

They are covering it all. They will send me a freight voucher on their account and I get with the local carrier and schedule the pickup. Meanwhile they sending a new saw to me after they set it up and test it. I can't ask for more than that. Obviously, it would have been better for everyone if the saw I have now had been perfect. But from where we are now looks like they are doing the right thing for me right down the line.

[John Harden]

That's great news!! I'm glad to see they're taking care of it without too much fuss.

Does it appear to have been damaged in shipping? I've experienced this first hand more times than I care to even think about.

I have a couple of new tools on order and this is my greatest fear. My luck is similiar to yours so I just KNOW some cranky, hungover guy at a freight forwarding yard is going to dent/drop/smash or otherwise bugger them up during handling.

I once saw a guy..... Oh, never mind. :D

Regards,

John

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Tech support tells me there is no way to fix it and I'll just have to live with it.

Send them a Letter that they will know is from you because it looks exactly like a Summons and Complaint. Accuse them of fraud, bad faith, and demand specific performance. Make the facts out to explain why it's fraud( ya gotta plead that with specificity). Fraud gets you trebles. Specific performance means you want them to adhere to their warranty and teke the thing back - you'll need injunctive relief.

They will have to pay a guy like me $5 - 10-Grand to make a special appearance and contest jurisdiction.

Chances are they'll replace the saw before they do that.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hey Cliff..............Take off your lawyer suit......put your glasses on and read the other posts the OP made.


They are sending him another saw and paying the return freight on the damaged one.

[Stephen Edwards]

I have 4 Grizzly machines now, two purchased new and two purchased used in brand new condition. In my experience Grizzly customer service is outstanding and world class.

My advice, for whatever it's worth, is to always get the name or ID number of the CS or tech rep that you're talking with if you feel like they're giving you the run around.

Though Grizzly's machines are made, for the most part, in Taiwan and in China, they have their own tech people in some of the plants, as I understand it. I would imagine that's especially true in the ISO factories.

I think that you simply had the misfortune of receiving a bad machine (that's gonna happen with every company once in while) and a first conversation with a less than professional tech support person. Sounds like Griz is doing their part to make it right.

Their will always be folks who slam all of the Asian manufactured machines. Grizzly and other companies who offer Asian made machines to the North American market have made woodworking and metal working a realistic goal for the home shop and for major production industries. Take a look sometime at the list of Grizzly's commercial and industrial customers. The proof's in the pudding!!

[Shiraz Balolia]

Send them a Letter that they will know is from you because it looks exactly like a Summons and Complaint. Accuse them of fraud, bad faith, and demand specific performance. Make the facts out to explain why it's fraud( ya gotta plead that with specificity). Fraud gets you trebles. Specific performance means you want them to adhere to their warranty and teke the thing back - you'll need injunctive relief.

They will have to pay a guy like me $5 - 10-Grand to make a special appearance and contest jurisdiction.

Chances are they'll replace the saw before they do that.

For a lawyer, you don't read very well! Read the post two posts before yours (#23)

No one knows at this time what is wrong with the saw and how it became the way it is. It could have been dropped by a trucker along the way and a casting cracked as a result. We will find out when we get the saw back.

In the meantime Mr. Shannon is getting a replacement machine as a normal course of the way we do business.

[Jim O'Dell]

snip

No one knows at this time what is wrong with the saw and how it became the way it is. It could have been dropped by a trucker along the way and a casting cracked as a result. We will find out when we get the saw back.

In the meantime Mr. Shannon is getting a replacement machine as a normal course of the way we do business.

Quoted for reinforcement!! Sorry Cliff, not pointing at you. I'm sure you got in a hurry and posted before reading the entire thread. I've also been guilty of that.
Glad that everything is working out Frank. I thought it would.
John, I don't think it is reasonable to think that any company, Grizzly, Jet, whoever, unpacks every unit and tests them.
Yes, there are going to be some that get damaged along the way. If there is something not mounted correctly, then that would be a QC problem. But even at that, it would seem to be an isolated case. All of the "problems" I've read about Grizzly products in the last few years have either been user error, or shipping damage. Neither of which should reflect badly on Grizzly.

Oh, and Shiraz...even though there was one snafu with the first CS person, who I bet has been retrained ;), this all seems to have been taken care of without your involvement!! I hope the current sales price will continue to the end of the year, or comes back as a December special. I should have enough money saved by then for my own G0691!! I'd still be interested in what you find wrong with the saw. I hope you will share with us once you have it apart and dissected. Jim.

[John Harden]

Quoted for reinforcement!! Sorry Cliff, not pointing at you. I'm sure you got in a hurry and posted before reading the entire thread. I've also been guilty of that.
Glad that everything is working out Frank. I thought it would.
John, I don't think it is reasonable to think that any company, Grizzly, Jet, whoever, unpacks every unit and tests them.
Yes, there are going to be some that get damaged along the way. If there is something not mounted correctly, then that would be a QC problem. But even at that, it would seem to be an isolated case. All of the "problems" I've read about Grizzly products in the last few years have either been user error, or shipping damage. Neither of which should reflect badly on Grizzly.

Oh, and Shiraz...even though there was one snafu with the first CS person, who I bet has been retrained ;), this all seems to have been taken care of without your involvement!! I hope the current sales price will continue to the end of the year, or comes back as a December special. I should have enough money saved by then for my own G0691!! I'd still be interested in what you find wrong with the saw. I hope you will share with us once you have it apart and dissected. Jim.

You're really joking with this response, right?

"Quoted for reinforcement". What exactly does that mean???

I find it very telling how you phrase your response to my question about testing machines. You don't think it is reasonable for sellers to "unpack and test" what they sell. That is exactly my point. Grizzly is an importer of machinery, not a manufacturer. If they actually manufactured their tools, there wouldn't be any unpacking that has to happen.

Sure, they pride themselves on customer service, but if there were good quality control in place at the point of manufacture, the Chinese manufacturers well deserved reputation for poor quality would be a thing of the past. This approach would also help with your argument against them having to test everything they import.

ALL of the problems you've ever heard of with Grizzly tools over the past few years has been user error or damage in shipping? Really?!?!?!?

Guys, its one thing to be brand loyal, but quite another to slobber over someone.

Geez, have some self respect.

Regards,

John

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Which of the major consumer woodworking tool manufacturers are currently producing in this country?


Grizzly isn't doing anything different than Delta, Jet, or any of the others.
The fact is to keep the price down, things are produced out of the country, shipped here and I'll bet very few of the products are opened up and inspected before being shipped to the consumer.

That is the globalized consumer market today......A person may not like it but that's the reality.

BTW...I own 1 Grizzly sander.... I also own PowerMatic....Jet....Onieda....Ridgid......Mini-Max....

I don't carry the Grizzly banner.

[John Harden]

John,

Which of the major consumer woodworking tool manufacturers are currently producing in this country?



Who said anything about manufacturing in this country being a threshold for quality? That is not the point. To the best of my knowledge Grizzly doesn't manufacture anything, anywhere. They simply import tools manufactured by others, primarily from large manufacturers in China who brand them Grizzly green.

Chinese manufacturers have a well deserved reputation for insisting that the responsibility for quality rests with the buyer and not the manufacturer. Have they gotten better over the past 20 years? In my opinion yes, but they still have a LONG way to go. Just when you think they are ready for prime time, they slip in some melamine on you.

If you're going to source from them, you better be prepared to manage them extremely well and expect that they will forward you quite a few products that are sub par. This is where QC comes in. You either do it there or do it here. If you don't do it well, consumers are, well let's just say "disappointed". Sometimes this means a consumer is frustrated and sometimes is means they are dead.

Regards,

John

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

I would suggest that Delta, Grizzly, Jet and even Steel City do it. It is the norm today. Even the stuff made in Europe has one fall through the cracks on occasion.

I would also suggest that Grizzly does it there but even then, sometimes things slip through the crack. The President of Grizzly has posted here before on the QC measures they take in Taiwan and China.

To think that any company will get it right 100% is a fantasy.

I think how a company reacts and treats the customer after it happens speaks more about the company than the occasional defective product.

Again...I don't wave the Grizzly banner. The sander I have is by far the cheapest tool in my shop and the newest. It probably won't be the last Grizzly tool I buy as I find the quality to be good for the dollar amount spent.

[Steve Clardy]

This must be silly night I guess. Lol

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This must be silly night I guess. Lol

Steve,

The key word is "Night" as in it's getting late at night for this old man....as in I have to work tomorrow......as in it's my bedtime...... and as in


"Good night" my friend!:)

[Steve Clardy]

Me too. Droupy...Droopy? eyelids.
Can't spell nomore. :D

[Stephen Edwards]

..... If you're going to source from them, you better be prepared to manage them extremely well and expect that they will forward you quite a few products that are sub par. This is where QC comes in. You either do it there or do it here. If you don't do it well, consumers are, well let's just say "disappointed".

Regards,

John

I would suggest that Grizzly does a good job of handling their quality control issues. Granted, they are bound to be a few "disappointed consumers" who have purchased Grizzly machines. I'm sure that the same is true of other companies who sell woodworking and metal working machinery, built to their specs, I might add, in both China and Taiwan.

The disappointed consumers are but a small fraction of their customers, obviously. Grizzly Industrial is the largest supplier of industrial machinery in the world. They would not hold that enviable position if they didn't supply consumers with machines that are of good quality and value for the money spent to purchase their machines. Consumers vote with their wallets, including people who are weekend hobby woodworkers, small to medium sized businesses and major industries. Many have "voted" for Grizzly and continue to "vote' for them.

[John Harden]

The disappointed consumers are but a small fraction of their customers, obviously..

Really?!?!?!? Well, OBVIOUSLY, it must be true, because you stated it right here. I remember another fellow who stated very emphatically that EVERY problem he had ever heard of with Grizzly over the past few years was due to customer error or shipping problems. No fault of Grizzly and their Chinese manufacturers mind you. It HAD to be the shippers, or of course the consumer.

Stephen, you carried the banner of Grizzly quite nicely here just as you did in post #27. I think we all understand your view point.

I guess criticism "JUST CANNOT STAND", can it? :rolleyes: LOL!!!!!!!!

For heavens sakes people. Where is your self respect? Talk about slobbering!!!!

Regards,

John

[Stephen Edwards]

Really?!?!?!? Well, OBVIOUSLY, it must be true, because you stated it right here. I remember another fellow who stated very emphatically that EVERY problem he had ever heard of with Grizzly over the past few years was due to customer error or shipping problems. No fault of Grizzly and their Chinese manufacturers mind you. It HAD to be the shippers, or of course the consumer.

Stephen, you carried the banner of Grizzly quite nicely here just as you did in post #27. I think we all understand your view point.

I guess criticism "JUST CANNOT STAND", can it? :rolleyes: LOL!!!!!!!!

For heavens sakes people. Where is your self respect? Talk about slobbering!!!!

Regards,

John


John,

The fact that I stated doesn't make it true. You miss my point, as you accuse others of missing yours. My point is that Grizzly didn't become the largest supplier of industrial machines in the world by selling poor quality products. Of course, there are problems with some of their products, as with any company. But, by and large, many people are quite pleased with their products and their customer service. YOU may not be, for whatever reason. That doesn't change the fact that many others are pleased. It's a no brainer.

From your very first post in this thread you exhibited a negative attitude towards Grizzly. That's your right to do so. If you don't like their products, don't buy 'em. Like all of us, you, too, have choices.

As for myself, yes, I'm very pleased with the Grizzly machines that I have and am satisfied with the way that they have resolved any and all issues that I've had with their machines and parts to my complete and total satisfaction. They have earned by loyalty.

Best Wishes,

[Guy Belleman]

Everyone I have owned has been, or is, a quality piece. I used to spend months agonizing over which brand, features, and service would provide the best deal. I have been pleased with the green machines, with a couple of the newer white ones, from Grizzly. My 0691 is a rock solid and super machine. Machine purchase decisions now take a lot less time.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Every one I have owned has been, or is, a quality piece. I used to spend months agonizing over which brand, features, and service would provide the best deal. I have been pleased with the green machines, with a couple of the newer white ones, from Grizzly. My 0691 is a rock solid and super machine. Machine purchase decisions now take a lot less time.

Thank you, Guy!

Also, our records do not indicate that Mr. Harden has purchased any machines from us.

[Jason Beam]

Really?!?!?!? Well, OBVIOUSLY, it must be true, because you stated it right here. I remember another fellow who stated very emphatically that EVERY problem he had ever heard of with Grizzly over the past few years was due to customer error or shipping problems. No fault of Grizzly and their Chinese manufacturers mind you. It HAD to be the shippers, or of course the consumer.

Stephen, you carried the banner of Grizzly quite nicely here just as you did in post #27. I think we all understand your view point.

I guess criticism "JUST CANNOT STAND", can it? :rolleyes: LOL!!!!!!!!

For heavens sakes people. Where is your self respect? Talk about slobbering!!!!

Regards,

John

Two questions:

Since you've essentially called the people who stated their experience liars, where are your facts that show that any experience reported in this thread is false?

Because you seem to be blathering on against something you know nothing about, what makes you such an expert?

If you don't know, sit down and zip it.

If you do, please enlighten us. We'd love to have a reasonable debate - but like they say "Don't ever argue with the ignorant, onlookers won't be able to tell you apart." Please show us your informed side, John.

[John Harden]

Thank you, Guy!

Also, our records do not indicate that Mr. Harden has purchased any machines from us.

You might want to check your records again. I purchased a 6" jointer probably 10-15 years ago. I would rate the quality as being in line with what I paid for it.

Regards,

John

[Peter Aeschliman]

Two questions:

Since you've essentially called the people who stated their experience liars, where are your facts that show that any experience reported in this thread is false?

Because you seem to be blathering on against something you know nothing about, what makes you such an expert?

If you don't know, sit down and zip it.

If you do, please enlighten us. We'd love to have a reasonable debate - but like they say "Don't ever argue with the ignorant, onlookers won't be able to tell you apart." Please show us your informed side, John.

AMEN. End of discussion!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

This thread is very close to being closed.

1. It has served it's purpose.

2. It has degraded to unproven accusations

3. It is rapidly becoming personal attacks.

The last two items are in violation of the TOSs.

I suggest we keep it on subject. All statements should be factual not unproven allegations and all personal attacks stop immediately....unless, of course, we've all been sent back to junior high or middle school!:rolleyes::D

[John Harden]

John,

The fact that I stated doesn't make it true. You miss my point, as you accuse others of missing yours. My point is that Grizzly didn't become the largest supplier of industrial machines in the world by selling poor quality products. Of course, there are problems with some of their products, as with any company. But, by and large, many people are quite pleased with their products and their customer service. YOU may not be, for whatever reason. That doesn't change the fact that many others are pleased. It's a no brainer.

From your very first post in this thread you exhibited a negative attitude towards Grizzly. That's your right to do so. If you don't like their products, don't buy 'em. Like all of us, you, too, have choices.

As for myself, yes, I'm very pleased with the Grizzly machines that I have and am satisfied with the way that they have resolved any and all issues that I've had with their machines and parts to my complete and total satisfaction. They have earned by loyalty.

Best Wishes,

Stephen, please don't mistake my comments about chinese manufacturers as being an idictment of Grizzly. I thought I made this clear in post #32, but after re-reading what I wrote, I can see how you and others might interpret it that way. I REALLY should have worded that better. My only defense is that my 15 month old woke up and was fussing. Yeah, pretty weak, but it's the truth and the best I got.

To be very clear, I have no axe to grind against Grizzly. In my opinion, they do a much better than average job at customer service and appear to work very hard to ensure quality products are imported. I've owned a few of their tools, got what I paid for, and have kept an eye on them over the years.

About a month ago I posted a message here (at least I think it was here) about how impressed I was with their offerings at AWFS, particularly their new, small Euro slider. Nicely done for the price!!! I think I even recommended it to a fellow here who wanted a slider but said Felder/Hammer/MM, etc., were out of his price range.

The point I was blathering about is that problems with Chinese made products, when they occur, are too often the result of their approach to quality, which is, it is the responsibility of the buyer. This is why Grizzly and other importers place QC people at the site. This is a well known and documented problem that the Chinese are trying to turn around. Are they there yet? No, I don't think they are. When will they get there, if ever? I have no idea. I'd invite you to re-read post #32 in this context.

Another side issue and what motivated some of my more snarky comments is what appears to be a curiously strong, ummmm, shall we say "brand loyalty" for Grizzly that seems to be present here. Being happy with your tools is one thing, but some of the comments and statements I've read on this forum (not necessarily this thread) are downright funny. Envision a gaggle of high school girls gushing over the star quarterback. Except in this case, the girls are chubby, balding, middle aged guys covered in sawdust. Now picture them holding pom-pom's..... :eek: :D To be honest, it's sometimes hard to resist poking a bit of fun at it. That's my perception anyway. Could I be wrong on that? Very possibly.

At the end of the day it's just woodworking. No reason any of us should pop a vein over it.

Regards,

John

[george wilson]

Over many years at my former job,and for home use,I have purchased several Grizzly machines. I have not had a problem with any of them. I thought I had a problem with a 16" metal lathe(turned out it just needed to be isolated from concrete. Most gear head lathes don't seem to have this problem,but they cost much more.)

The customer service I got with the lathe issue was very cooperative. I was treated with excellent service when I went to Williamsport to buy machinery.

You MUST remember that imported Asian machines are made at incredibly low prices,and a few problems can crop up. When I was young,owning much anything like we have within our means today was nearly impossible. Even poorly made USA stuff was VERY expensive. Choices on things like planers were very limited (Parks and Belsaw?). The Parks was not well built,and their 12" planer's feed gearboxes always broke down. I look at old Sears catalogs,and see that in many cases,we are paying 1950's prices for things we can buy today.

I think we are lucky to have these options today.At the same time,it really bothers me that we aren't manufacturing much anything anymore. I think it is pitiful that the LEAST little thing we do make has to have a big American flag plastered on it.Like,HEY!! We made something!!

[Harold Burrell]

AMEN. End of discussion!


So...does that mean that it is too late for me to wave my "Grizzly banner"?

Rats...

[John Harden]

:D
So...does that mean that it is too late for me to wave my "Grizzly banner"?

Rats...

HA!!! Its never too late, but please use a pom-pom. Makes for a better visual.....

[Alex Shanku]

What, another damaged Grizzly machine!!! No way.

Seriously, I hope the new saw works out for your. Let us know what the problem was/is and good luck with the new one.



*Heads back to shop full of WWII era tools* snicker :p

[Joe Jensen]

Just once more I'd like to point out that shipping damage is not always the fault of the shipper. I'm shocked at how poorly packaged somethings I receive are. The Powermatic Mortiser (small broken item) for example. Many of the pictures here of damaged machines show crating (it's generous to call that crating) that is rediculously cheap and inadequate. I've also received machines that were incredibly well packaged.

Why would someone import expensive tools on cheap crates? To save money. I'm sure a bean counter or MBA somewhere runs the numbers and finds that it's cheaper to have some small percentage of customers have machines break in shipping than it is to just package them right in the first place.

I haven't bought Grizzly yet. One reason is that I don't trust their crating to survive shippers. I suspect they know their crating in marginal. I'd be happy to pay the extra $10 or so it would cost to have these things properly crated in China.

[Shiraz Balolia]

As of this afternoon, Mr. Shannon called and requested that a link belt might fix the problem. Maybe he will elaborate since this thread seems to have taken a life of its own and people have begun theorizing and estimating crating costs.


By the way, it costs a heck of a lot more than $10.00 to even improve crating nowadays. Been there, done that, many times over. With our wood fumigation laws and so on, the cost of wood crating has gone sky high. We sometimes pay $250.00 extra to have a proper crate on a larger machine. In some cases the "proper" crating also increases cube which increases the cost of shipping.

[Chris Barnett]

The belts may well be the cause. Picked up replacement belts for my DP and the vibration issue was solved. Try to buy Gates; they seem to be manufactured consistently. Bought mine at a car parts store; worked perfectly.
And regarding Griz, have their TS, BS, DP and jointer. Wish other sellers had the same concern for customer satisfaction; would have much happier time with my other purchases.
Seems like a few folks commenting here have more of a problem with chafing than with the machines.

[Myk Rian]

As of this afternoon, Mr. Shannon called and requested that a link belt might fix the problem.
How could that possibly keep the trunion from jumping?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I can see where a belt placed on table saw and left there for months without being started can develop a "memory" of where on the belt the pulleys are located.

I can see where these "memory bulges" can cause vibration when the machine is first turned on.

I can see how this might make a motor jump if the motor is mounted on a pivot or hinge that is springloaded to maintain a constant belt tension.

I can't see how this jump should make a trunnion jump/vibrate or move the blade. That shouldn't happen.

We will need some explanations here.

[Jason White]

Folks, we're waaaaaay off-topic here.

We're supposed to be helping the poor OP who got a defective saw.

This is not an appropriate thread for trashing foreign-made tools (or each other).

You Creekers are better than this. Please knock it off.

Jason


AMEN. End of discussion!

[Nathan Yeager]

This thread makes me want to purchase more Grizzly products. I sure wish Grizzly sold shop space...

[Peter Aeschliman]

Folks, we're waaaaaay off-topic here.

We're supposed to be helping the poor OP who got a defective saw.

This is not an appropriate thread for trashing foreign-made tools (or each other).

You Creekers are better than this. Please knock it off.

Jason


Guys, I'm truly sorry. Frankly I'm shocked that people seem to keep pointing out my post as one of the more hostile ones in this thread. It clearly did not come across the way I intended!

I didn't call anybody names, imply that they were lying, or accuse others of having no self respect, unlike many of the other posts in this thread... I was simply trying to say that the argument needs to end and that it's pointless. Sheesh!