First large project and in need of serious help

[David Song]

Hi,

My brother is opening a restaurant and he wants small/short walls inbetween the tables...sort of like a table divider.
it's going to be roughly 3 feet tall by 5 feet long and 5" thick.

Please feel free to critique or share your opinions and experience.

My plan:
-Make a frame for this miniture divider/wall using 2 by 4" studs. One side of this frame will be mounted against the actual wall of the store.
-use 1/4" shiny plywood to cover the frame to make it look like a wall.
-use pre-made moldings from local hardwar store and install on the seams.

My problem:
-This miniture wall/divider I'm building will rest on top of tiles. Why? because that's what the floor of this restaurant is made of. The one edge of the wall/divider will be screwd on against the main wall of the store. The other edige of this divider will have no support. However because this wall that i"m building will be resting on the top of this tiles(rest floor), I'm not sure I can nail/screw it down to make it standing solid.
What do I do? Do I use cement or some sort of glue? If so, what glue?

Please help!

Thanks, David

[phil harold]

Hi David,

One I would recommend installing drywall then paneling this would also give you 5" width with 2x4 which begats the question :"do you need to use metal studs for code?"

with the proper bit you can drill in tile

glue is a good option along with mechanical connection

[David Song]

Thanks Phil,

So what kind of bit drills through tiles and concrete floor? Do I need an impact driver for this?

Also, what kind of glue?

[Michael Peet]

David,

Look for "masonry drill bits".

Best of luck,

Mike

[Chris Weishaar]

I would definitely check out the local codes prior to building the walls. As mentioned before they may require metal studs and sheetrock under the paneling. Depending on what code your city uses and whether or not the building is sprinklered there may be a limit to how much wood can be used.

Masonry bits will make drilling the tile easy. Regular drills work, but an impact driver/ hammer drill makes quick work of it.

Good luck,
Chris

[Robert Reece]

You would probably get better advice from the Breaktime forum over at Fine Homebuilding. The topic is more suited to that forum.

However, that being said, I'd recommend renting a small Hilti hammer drill and using Tapcons (prepare for sticker shock) to anchor the bottom plate of the wall. Build the walls before you erect them. Once skinned with plywood, glued and nailed, that wall will be quite stiff.

If Tapcons are too small, you might want to use Red Head anchors. They are bigger and can take more cranking on.
Tapcons and Red Heads should be available at your local lumber yard, Home Depot, Lowe's, whatever.

[Phil Thien]

Does your brother have his heart set on this? I've seen it done, and it is a cleaning/maintenance nightmare.

[David Song]

thanks guys!

So after i drill using masonary bit. Do I just buy some scews that can work on cement/tile and screw them on? Or is simple screwing the studs on to the floor not good enough?

[David Song]

You would probably get better advice from the Breaktime forum over at Fine Homebuilding. The topic is more suited to that forum.

However, that being said, I'd recommend renting a small Hilti hammer drill and using Tapcons (prepare for sticker shock) to anchor the bottom plate of the wall. Build the walls before you erect them. Once skinned with plywood, glued and nailed, that wall will be quite stiff.

If Tapcons are too small, you might want to use Red Head anchors. They are bigger and can take more cranking on.
Tapcons and Red Heads should be available at your local lumber yard, Home Depot, Lowe's, whatever.

Hi,

bottom plate on this wall will be the studs. Or bottom of the wall frame...which is a stud.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi,

My brother is opening a restaurant and he wants small/short walls inbetween the tables...sort of like a table divider.
it's going to be roughly 3 feet tall by 5 feet long and 5" thick.

Please feel free to critique or share your opinions and experience.

My plan:
-Make a frame for this miniture divider/wall using 2 by 4" studs. One side of this frame will be mounted against the actual wall of the store.
-use 1/4" shiny plywood to cover the frame to make it look like a wall.
-use pre-made moldings from local hardwar store and install on the seams.

My problem:
-This miniture wall/divider I'm building will rest on top of tiles. Why? because that's what the floor of this restaurant is made of. The one edge of the wall/divider will be screwd on against the main wall of the store. The other edige of this divider will have no support. However because this wall that i"m building will be resting on the top of this tiles(rest floor), I'm not sure I can nail/screw it down to make it standing solid.
What do I do? Do I use cement or some sort of glue? If so, what glue?

Please help!

Thanks, David

David, as it's a commercial establishment where food is prepared and consumed, it would be prudent to check with the local authority having jurisdiction.

You would hate to put all that money and time into, only to find that your brother's establishment doesn't pass inspection and receive its license.

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Evans]

+ad infinitum the suggestion to check local codes. I have done a lot of work like this, and when working for another outfit, they were notorious for not checking codes, and having to rebuild things because of it.

But, If codes check out, it should work. Tile floors, depending on the tile, will crack if you use a hammer drill first. drill the bottom plate with a wood bit, then the tile with a tile/glass/ceramic bit, and then use a masonry bit and tapcons for the concrete. It is a hassle, but it is 20 times better than having to replace tiles . . .

I also recommend using liquid nails/powergrab adhesive. Gives it that muck better holding power, and has enough give/play to it that sudden knocks won't break it free over time.

Of course, if they are 1" tiles, no problem. But 12" and 6" tiles is what I am speaking of. . .

[Walter Plummer]

I think the typical approach is to have a specialist core drill the tile and floor . Think concrete hole saw.Then set a steel tube in the hole with concrete for support at the free end. I have seen this method several times. Don`t underestimate the abuse it will receive. Good luck.

[Chris Parks]

Why complicate it. Fixing one side will stabilise it, the glue the bottom to the tiles with a good silicone adhesive. If they have to be removed it leaves nothing more than a glue patch to clean off the tiles. Don't under estimate the glue, short of violence it won't move.

[Matt Evans]

I think the typical approach is to have a specialist core drill the tile and floor . Think concrete hole saw.Then set a steel tube in the hole with concrete for support at the free end. I have seen this method several times. Don`t underestimate the abuse it will receive. Good luck.


That is the way we would set metal chairs and tables, and that isn't a bad approach. But, if you have someone else do it, it will likely be costly. You can rent one of the concrete drills at sunbelt rentals for much less.

[David DeCristoforo]

As one who has been involved in the restaurant business and with all of the cleaning and mopping involved, I second Phil's sentiments. If you're brother is heartset on this he might want to consider "free standing" dividers that can be moved at cleanup time. I can tell you with certainty that local codes are going to require some sort of "washable" cove between the floor and any "fixed" walls. An alternative would be to build the dividers so that they stop a foot or so off the floor with only a post for support at the ends. This will make cleaning much easier. You will still have to cove the bottom of the post but if you could find matching tile, you could wrap the bottom of the post with a tile "base".

[Peter Quinn]

Having been a chef involved with numerous start ups in several states, I can tell you that screwing a wooden stud to a tile floor of a restaurant can get you into trouble with the building department, the health inspector, and your dish washer. And if they don't get you, sooner or later it may start to smell. Imagine the water involved in moping a commercial floor every day over years and what that is going to do to that stud as it seeps under your moldings and sits trapped under and around that organic material. Not cute. As David noted some form of sanitary cove most likely will be required for that reason.

And build the wall to take a direct blow from a #300 plus patron on their way to the bathroom after one to many drinks. Check the code for minimum height requirements too. 36" may be a bit low and represent a tripping hazard. I know, who is going to miss a 36" high pedestal wall? The same drunken dufiss that will blame and sue your brother after they do.

At the very least I would think a steel post with a plate anchored with 4" hilti connectors would be neccessary to secure the floating end (not on the wall) assuming the floor is tile on concrete. Imagine you are securing a newel post that must support the entire weight of a large person, or several, at once. Essentially the same stress is potentially involved. If it can be leaned on, it will be. Are you going to trust a little PL and some tapcons with your brothers insurance policy?