Borg poplar, am I nuts?

[Dean Karavite]

Each time I am in Lowes or Home Depot (okay once a week easy), I go through the poplar looking for boards with interesting greens, browns and purples. I have five 8 foot boards now that have some interesting and intense color and figure. I'm thinking it might make an interesting casework type of project some day. I certainly spend time at better hardwood dealers and buy more traditional (and $$$) hardwoods for projects, but what do you think - am I nuts for thinking this might be worth the trouble? I seem to recall an article or letter in one of the mags where someone made a very nice piece with this kind of poplar, but I can't find it. Then again, if it is a good idea, now my source will dry up if other people clue into this!

[Chris Friesen]

I think it was Popular Woodworking where the author discussed picking up only _absolutely perfect_ poplar boards at a big box store.

If you like the wood, go for it!

[Doug Shepard]

Unfortunately the green, blues, & purples dont tend to stay that way. The wood will usually brown up over time. It's still some good looking wood that deserves some clear finish once in a while rather than being the go-to wood for paint all the time. I love working the stuff too. It planes as smooth as it paints.

[jerry nazard]

It planes as smooth as it paints.

Yep! Just this moment finished up some poplar drawers for a buddy. Pop-lar is indeed a very friendly wood! And cheap!!!

[Dean Karavite]

Thanks all. That's good to know, Doug, that the colors won't last. No way to "lock them in"? I'm not fanatical about poplar, but it seemed like an opportunity to try experiment, get some color and not risk a big outlay in wood costs. While we are on the subject, does poplar play well with milk paint?

[Doug Shepard]

Never tried milk paint but I'm assuming it flows just as easily on poplar as latex. There may be some way I'm not aware of to lock in the colors in the wood but I think the biggest factor will be whether it gets sunlight or not.

[Dave Wagner]

The 2 display cases (Flag and sword) I did them out of poplar and with a decent stain, they look really good.
I also face framed a larger cabinet with poplar. It is easy to work it and takes a stain well.

[Nathan Callender]

I built a bed for my dog out of poplar from the local borg. It was one of my first projects. We stained it and it looks pretty good. So, if you are liking the wood, go for it. BTW, look around, there may be even cheaper sources for it than the borg.

I don't know why poplar seems to get a second tier rating. It's a good, easy to work, inexpensive, reasonably durable wood that finishes well with paint, and with some practice it can be stained beautifully - I've seen poplar cabinets that could be passed as cherry, the finishing was that good.

[Dean Karavite]

Thanks everyone. So, the general consensus is I am not nuts.

[Eric Meier]

Sorry for the dumb question: but what is "borg"?:confused:

[jerry nazard]

Borg = Big Orange = Home Depot
Generally used as slang for any big box store.
May be intended by some users as a derogatory term.

[curtis rosche]

BORG= Big Orange Retail Giant.


to keep the poplar color you could just put a coat or 2 of UV resistant clear rattlecan finish

[Jim Becker]

Deep mineral staining does occur in Tulip (yellow) Poplar and that's what you're finding at the 'borg on occasion. I've rarely seen it at the regular lumber purveyors as it's not considered desirable, even for paint grade...not because of anything structural, but because it's harder to hide the dark markings with the normal finishing regimen. While the poplar, itself, will brown out over time, in my experience, the blacks, purples and dark greens from the mineral staining doesn't change much.

I did get some of the dark mineral staining from one tree off my property. If I recall, I used that small amount of material for some kind of small project where it added some interest, but I don't recall what it was for. Most of my poplar is dyed to mimic cherry and maple in projects so I tend to avoid the mineral staining for obvious reasons.

[Myk Rian]

Poplar is the only wood I'll buy at the boxes. I use it for drawers and painted items. Terrible for outdoor use. It rots very easily.

[Stephen Edwards]

Personally, I think that poplar is underrated. To each their own, but I like it and enjoy working with it for some projects.

My favorite finish for it is a clear finish. I wish that I knew of a way to maintain the color of the purple streaks that you mentioned. I've never had any success in doing that. Still, it ages nicely and is interesting, IMHO.

Go for it!

[Joe Leigh]

It also machines beautifully for painted moulding work.

[Keith Christopher]

I think the primary reason for it being cheap is it is typically an uninteresting wood. It has a grain similar to cherry so when stained properly it is often sold as 'stained cherry' furniture at some of the larger retailers. It is softer so it dents easily which if looking for a distressed look it will fit the bill. It is fairly light, and hard to match for glue ups unless you can get a flitch of it. But as you said sometimes you get the most AWESOME greens and purples and blues. And while I am not opposed to using it in the natural, it is VERY difficult to get a panel glue up that flows.

I don't think you're crazy at all personally. If the wood is speaking to you, go for it.

[Michael N Taylor]

Sherwin Williams commercial paint stores can take poplar and make it look like any wood you want, you have to apply a dye to the wood first that neutralizes all the colors then a stain is applide. We did this on a large project with 4 piece crown molding all door and window trim etc and it looked just like the cherry cabinets when the painter was done.

[Joe Scharle]

BORG started out as Blue or Orange Retail Giant.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Also, from Star Trek, Next Generation.... The collective that swallows up whole planets. "Resistance is Futile".
.

[Joe Cunningham]

While we are on the subject, does poplar play well with milk paint?

Yes. All the poplar I've used has been painted with milk paint. Actually milk paint works well with every 'cheap' wood I've used, including doug fir studs I used for legs on a side table.

[David Giles]

Second to Keith's observation on poplar. Here is a blanket chest made from random poplar boards, then dyed with water based dye. It started off as a test piece for round corners and dye, but turned out satisfactorily for the missus. The green panels were her requirement, BTW. I'd echo Keith's statement on how soft poplar is. Dings and dents seem inevitable and glue lines tend to stand out more than harder woods. But the edges rout beautifully and you can't beat the wood price.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/davidgiles/bctop.jpg

[Stephen Edwards]

Yes. All the poplar I've used has been painted with milk paint. Actually milk paint works well with every 'cheap' wood I've used, including doug fir studs I used for legs on a side table.

What exactly is "milk paint"? Thanks.

[Sean Hughto]

http://www.milkpaint.com/prod.html

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/

[Frank Drew]

I've used a lot of poplar for either secondary wood or paint-grade applications and I agree that it's inexpensive and is easy to work, and while I wouldn't call it "hard", at least it's harder than bass or white pine.

But under a clear finish I've never, ever seen it convincingly imitate cherry, maple, any of the better hardwoods, no matter what dye or stain is used; that particular, and to me boring, poplar grain is a dead giveaway.

The cost of the wood in most projects is minimal when compared to the time and labor spent, so IMO it's false economy to scrimp on the material -- if you want cherry, get some cherry, don't hope that your stained poplar will pass.

Again, IMO.

[John Harden]

Are you nuts? Of course not. It doesn't matter where you get your wood.

There's also nothing wrong with liking the different hues, textures and grain of different woods. I mean, after all, that's what seperates it from MDF or plastic.

We've all seen the photos of projects where people hae incorporated knot holes, tree bark and other natural aspects of the wood. If done well, I tend to like designs with these features a lot.

Unless you're looking to market and sell things, in the end, what's important is whether or not you like it. After all, you're not trying to guess what customers will want to buy.

Whenever I build with cherry I leave the sapwood alone and let it show. My logic is its a natural aspect of the wood. Why cut it out or try to hide it? Exercise judgement about where you do this to be sure, but again, what some people view as defects, I view as opportunities.

Regards,

John

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Also, from Star Trek, Next Generation.... The collective that swallows up whole planets. "Resistance is Futile".
.

When I first started reading the posts, I was wondering what THEY had to do with woodworking. I came to the false conslusion that we get sucked into the void of buying tools forever...... LOL

[phil harold]

Mona Lisa portrait is painted on a poplar panel, very stable wood inside
Not so stable when used outdoors

I have used it to mimic cherry and for painted items
it does ding pretty easily for a "hardwood"

[Marty Paulus]

[QUOTE=Frank Drew;1212194] But under a clear finish I've never, ever seen it convincingly imitate cherry, maple, any of the better hardwoods, no matter what dye or stain is used; that particular, and to me boring, poplar grain is a dead giveaway.
QUOTE]

From what I have seen here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=117473
I would have to disagree. Of course I have not seen actual Cherry against this, nor have I seen this in person. This is truly some impressive work if you haven't already seen.

One nice thing is we can disagree with each other!:D

[Frank Drew]

Marty,

I think we agree on the level of workmanship.

[Eddie Darby]

Thanks for the inspiration! I picked up some poplar at one of the forms sponsors, KJPSelectHardwoods, because it looked so good when I saw it one day while looking for other stuff. Didn't plan on buying it, but how could I say no ! :D
I think you all know what I mean!:rolleyes:

The pieces I got were 12" wide, and I passed on the 18" wide ones.:eek:
4/4 was nice, and I stayed away from the 8/4 stuff, amazing to see that much wood in one piece!

This is the first time for me to be working on such wide boards, so I hope things go well. I'm use to working with nothing bigger than 5 or so inches from the Borgs.
Should be fun!

[Peter Quinn]

You are not nuts, merely eclectic. I don't care for the greens and purples of poplar personally, so if they suit you you will get no competition from me! Are you nuts buying S4S from the borg? That depends on your situation. If you have a lumber yard in traveling distance of your shop and you have the means to dimension lumber (joiner, planer, etc) then yes, you are crazy. I pay just less than half the price for poplar at my local lumber yard than the cheapest local BORG charges, and the quality is far superior. I get 15/16" hit and miss planed 4/4 in lengths up to 16', widths up to 15", all the green and purple you could want if you care to dig through a pile. The borg prices are harsh on hard wood lumber.

As to the claim that poplar can be made to look just like cherry, please move to a higher oxygen environment directly.:D It can be dyed, glazed, toned to near death, and it can be made to look attractive, but it never looks like REAL CHERRY. The deep glow and gentle shimmer combined with subtile figure of the actual product adorned with little more than BLO and a wipe of shellac is unmatched. At roughly four times the cost (Cherry versus poplar) for FAS lumber I can see the reasons to use an attractive alternative that suits the bill on large architectural projects. But the claim that some finishing alchemist can make "Poplar look JUST like Cherry" is hog wash. You can make it "orangish" and thats about it. If you think poplar looks just like cherry, you owe it to your self to BUY some cherry and see the difference. BTW, poplar is much easier to work with and shape.

[Frank Drew]

I don't know about current availability or price, but with the right coloring applied birch can more convincingly imitate cherry.

Peter points out something that the better hardwoods have that's missing in some others, a luster (his more evocative "deep glow and gentle shimmer") that's there underneath the finish; poplar, whatever it's good qualities, has no luster, unless you happen to get one of the rare figured examples.

[David Keller NC]

Frank is right on this - it is a mistake to save a very little of the overall cost of a project (and yes, guys, your time does cost). That doesn't mean that making some types of things out of poplar or pine is inappropriate - there are many examples of furniture and other woodworking forms where using rosewood would look ridiculous (a joined stool, for example).

One thing to consider about this, though, is that there are many pictures of projects on SMC and other forums that look absolutely fabulous in photos that are made of something like poplar that has been dyed. I'm certain that they look very good in person as well.

I'm also certain as someone with a chemistry background that those same projects won't look so attractive after a few years of oxygen and light exposure. The dyes that are commonly available and commonly use change color over time - they don't just fade. One of the bigger problems is with the reddish dyes used to mimic cherry - they color shift to a greenish hue over time. And yes, this applies to the water-based aniline dyes commonly referred to as "light fast" as well as the oil and alcohol based aniline dyes.

It is possible to make a dye out of logwood (bloodwood) that doesn't color shift, but it is an involved process, and is very sensitive to pH. That pH shift can occur when one is making the dye, but it can also occur when the dye is applied, leading to some very unpredictable results.

[Jim Becker]

I don't know about current availability or price, but with the right coloring applied birch can more convincingly imitate cherry.

The one downside to using birch over poplar (or alder) for this is birch tends to have a more open pore structure not evident in cherry, maple and other fine-grained species. The grain pattern is similar, but the texture is different.

[kenneth kayser]

I think the primary reason for it being cheap is it is typically an uninteresting wood. It has a grain similar to cherry so when stained properly it is often sold as 'stained cherry' furniture at some of the larger retailers. It is softer so it dents easily which if looking for a distressed look it will fit the bill. It is fairly light, and hard to match for glue ups unless you can get a flitch of it. But as you said sometimes you get the most AWESOME greens and purples and blues. And while I am not opposed to using it in the natural, it is VERY difficult to get a panel glue up that flows.

I don't think you're crazy at all personally. If the wood is speaking to you, go for it.

Another reason it is cheap is that it grows very fast. As such it isn't very strong. It is a hardwood because the leaves fall off in fall.

[Dean Karavite]

A few points. I wasn't trying to save money - my recent purchase of QS oak for a Morris chair can prove this!, but I just wondered if the purples/greens could be of some use. I wish I could find the article and magazine where a reader posted pics of his poplar chest of drawers using these "figured" pieces for his fronts. It was kind of interesting, so I picked up a few purple/green pieces on a few occasions. They very well could end up being painted frames for a cabinet of some type.

[mickey cassiba]

Poplar is the only wood I'll buy at the boxes. I use it for drawers and painted items. Terrible for outdoor use. It rots very easily.
Painted poplar is very durable...I bought a building from a closed military base in Tennessee(Base closed in the early fifties). I purchased the building in 1975, and the last time I saw it...'94...ex wife has it now, still standing proud. Framed and sheathed in tulip poplar. Minor sill rot after a bad flood, but after repaired, no problems. TP rocks!!!
Mickey