Rob Cosman Dovetail Videos

[Lucas Moore]

Hey all,
I just bit the bullet and purchased Rob's Dovetail saw and wooden dovetail marker. I figured I better just go ahead and buy them now while I have the money available. I am excited about using these but I want to start out on the right foot first! I am wondering if anyone would be willing to let me "rent/borrow" their Cosman videos for about a week so I can learn from the master. My local woodcraft does not rent these videos and I don't have the 100 bucks it takes to purchase them yet. I will hopefully purchase his videos in a couple months but I am begging at the chance to use this saw correctly. If anybody out there has them and is willing to trust a fellow creeker just PM me and I will be forever grateful. Thanks to all!

[John Keeton]

Lucas, you just missed a set that sold a few days ago! Jacob Mac sold them to Bill Miltner. As I recall, I sold some DVDs to Bill before, but do not know whether he would be willing to sell or loan these. Jacob still has the Cosman saw for sale BTW!! You may have been able to save a few bucks.

[David Gendron]

You should have a look on the bay, under Lie Nielsen, It seem that there is always some for sale there!
Good luck!

[Paul Saffold]

Check out this site. http://smartflix.com/

They rent for $10 for 7 days. They also have sets that are a good deal. It isn't like having your own, but some things you only need to see once or twice. It can help you decide if you want to spend the $ to buy your own.

Paul

[Danny Burns]

Hey all,
I just bit the bullet and purchased Rob's Dovetail saw and wooden dovetail marker. I figured I better just go ahead and buy them now while I have the money available. I am excited about using these but I want to start out on the right foot first! I am wondering if anyone would be willing to let me "rent/borrow" their Cosman videos for about a week so I can learn from the master. My local woodcraft does not rent these videos and I don't have the 100 bucks it takes to purchase them yet. I will hopefully purchase his videos in a couple months but I am begging at the chance to use this saw correctly. If anybody out there has them and is willing to trust a fellow creeker just PM me and I will be forever grateful. Thanks to all!

Why don't you email Rob and ask him if you can work something out. This way you won't be renting what you will eventually own.

I am sure that by involving Rob you will come out ahead and you will not be infringing on anyone's copyright.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I know that Rob is probably the only person who knows how to do dovetails, but there are a couple of other people who not only claim to know how but have been willing to show everyone else for half or less the price Rob charges for his superior methodology. For example, Jim Kingshott (a true master, new & used copies at Amazon, $12 (http://www.amazon.com/Dovetails-Jim-Kingshott/dp/1565233522/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1252473232&sr=1-2)) and Frank Klausz (famous for freehand dovetail cutting, used $20 at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Drawer-Frank-Klausz/dp/B0001KNDVC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1252473232&sr=1-3)). Most likely you can use Rob's saw and gauge with other methods. :)

Pam

[John Keeton]

As Pam has suggested, there are a couple of other methods out there, and in my quest to learn to handcut dovetails, I did obtain and watch both Kingshott and Klausz. While I did learn from them, and their methods work for them - and for others, I am sure - I found Rob's method to be far more to my liking and seemingly requiring less effort. I felt I was able to reproduce results with more consistency using his method.

However, I realize that others may and will disagree. But, having watched all three, I prefer the Cosman method. I think, in part, because he seems to be a better teacher.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I watched Rob's "Make a Drawer" two video set and found some parts of it interesting but not good in any working sense, way too fiddly for me. But then in 1980 I invented sawing the tails without measurement/marking except for the base line, the night I was taught how to measure and cut dovetails. It seemed good and obvious that if one measured the pins (or tails if pins first) based on the first cuts, it didn't much matter precisely where the first cuts were; so I'm naturally attracted to Franks's method.

People simply don't realize how easy it is for them to bifurcate visually; but if they somehow gather the nerve to try (really no nerve at all, pieces of scrap in the privacy of their own shops), they will impress themselves.

Pam, who, btw, doesn't really claim invention except for herself and the class and instructor

[Richard Magbanua]

Great points on just doing it Pam.

I am still teaching myself dovetails and have greatly improved (Still a long way to go though!). One thing I have realized is that even though everyone says, "practice makes perfect" most newbies like me don't exactly know what they mean. I am finding out that "practice" means clamping a piece of wood in the vise, drawing out and sawing a few HUNDRED kerfs. Sometimes if I have only a little time, which is most of the time, I just go out to the shop and practice sawing to the line. I can get about 20 or 30 in a few minutes. I also keep scraps and cut them into 2" or 3" wide pieces and make practice dovetails when I can. I date them and put them on a shelf so I can see how much better I'm getting the more I practice.
Also, there's PLENTY of info out there on the net.
I found this video by Kari Hultman, aka The Village Carpenter, on the 'tube the other day. One of the best vids on dovetailing I've seen. She doesn't speak a word and it's totally FREE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp_aW0rO2uk&feature=related

[Pam Niedermayer]

Nice video, Richard, thanks. One thing I'd recommend to VillageCarpenter is to makr the waste to be cut.

Pam

[Richard Magbanua]

One thing I'd recommend to VillageCarpenter is to makr the waste to be cut

Yes, that has messed me up a few times already! Anymore, I at least put a small "x" on those parts.

Regarding Rob Cosman, I haven't seen any videos of his yet. I do, however, aspire to his quality of dovetails. I've seen the ones he's cut at Woodcraft. Impressive. Hey, ya gotta have a goal!

[mike holden]

Lucas,
Dont make the mistake of thinking that dovetails are the "holy grail" of woodworking.
They are just another joint.

grab some wood and try some, look at them and see what you want to improve, try again. Practice. Practice sawing to a line, practice laying out, practice.

Keep in mind that mistakes are not a problem, quitting is.

And, remember: it grows on trees!

Have fun, this is a hobby.

Mike

BTW, if you can get together with another woodworker and try things together, its more than twice as much fun. mh

[Dennis Ryan]

Very good points. What I might add is to pick one method and stick with it. There is such a thing as information overload. Also what will work 100 times better than any video is to do a couple with someone who knows how to. I struggled with dovetails until I took a course and after a few tries they became easy.

[Lucas Moore]

Thank you everyone for your great advice. I found a fellow creeker who had Cosman's videos for sale at a reasonable price and picked up 4 dvds. I am waiting till i watch them before I truly test out my new Cosman saw (but I probably will see if I can cut some straight lines before they arrive!)

My goal is to eventually move more towards hand tools in woodworking. It is just darn expensive for good quality tools...and well worth it! I have learned that it is better to buy one good expensive tool then to was money on 4 low-quality cheaper ones. My next purchase will be a #4 Lie-neilsen plane and then move to a #7. After that I will slowly add to my collection as my budget allows.

All advice is welcomed as to which route I should take purchasing hand tools. I currently own all the big power tools and just have started my hand tool collection with the dovetail saw, dovetail guide, and a veritas sliding marking tool.

Thanks to all again

[Eddie Darby]

My goal is to eventually move more towards hand tools in woodworking. It is just darn expensive for good quality tools...and well worth it! I have learned that it is better to buy one good expensive tool then to was money on 4 low-quality cheaper ones. My next purchase will be a #4 Lie-neilsen plane and then move to a #7. After that I will slowly add to my collection as my budget allows.

This approach in the long run will save you money, time and frustration.

A lot of people own quite a few tools before they settle on top quality tools.
Fortunately there is E-Bay for them to unload their cheaper tools, on the next generation of 'Neanderthals', for better ones.
It's just too bad that start-up cost hold most people back from doing this.

[John Keeton]

My next purchase will be a #4 Lie-neilsen plane and then move to a #7. After that I will slowly add to my collection as my budget allows.Lucas, unless you already have one, I would throw in a LN LA block plane, either as my first or second plane, and defer the #7 if necessary to accomplish that.

[Matt Benton]

I'm only on my second DT project, but I'm sold on a combination of Cosman's fret saw and Tommy MacDonald's paring blocks (I thought his blocks were a little small, so I made my own).

I've loved this so far. I can quickly rough out the tails and pins with my LN dovetail saw and Rob's fret saw, then chisel to the lines very easily and accurately with paring blocks.

If you haven't tried these blocks, you should make some and give them a try. They make it very easy to sneak up on a good fit...

[David Keller NC]

My goal is to eventually move more towards hand tools in woodworking. It is just darn expensive for good quality tools...and well worth it! I have learned that it is better to buy one good expensive tool then to was money on 4 low-quality cheaper ones. My next purchase will be a #4 Lie-neilsen plane and then move to a #7. After that I will slowly add to my collection as my budget allows.


You've much to teach fellow WWs on the 'net. There are always lots of threads on various forums bemoaning the initial purchase price of handtools. Not so many bemoaning the initial purchase price of power tools. I find that odd.

Anyway, one thing I'd note is that practice does not make perfect - it makes habit. That's a good thing if the habit that's developed is good technique, not a good thing if the initial technique is bad. The investment in instructional DVDs, or a class, or just a fellow WW bribed with a 6-pack and an enjoyable Fall Saturday afternoon in the shop will pay off greatly.

And one other thought to those reading this thread looking for instructional DVDs - many public libraries have a huge DVD collection that they check out to library card holders for free. My own P.L. has the Cosman, Klingshott, and quite a few Taunton DVDs. Might be worth checking into.

[Richard Magbanua]

David, Thanks for the tip about the public library. I didn't find any Cosman material but I did find all of the Frank Klausz dvd's! I guess I'll be taking a trip out to the library this week to borrow his dvd's.

[David Colafranceschi]

I would not waste my money renting them but would rather buy them. I have had them for three or four years now and every now and then will put them back in the dvd and pick up something small that I missed many times before. I would think that they are part of the 'kit' in your tool chest. I have taken his courses and bought all his dvd's. If you use his methods, work hard at it within a short period of time you will be able to make all those joints at a very high level.

Buy them-best investment you ever make.

[Rod Sheridan]

My FIL esentially taught me the Frank Klaus method years ago when I wanted to learn how to make dovetails.

The most important things I learned from my FIL are;

- quit wasting time drawing so many precise lines, since you copy the first items on to the second.

- use a rip dovetail saw since you're ripping

- sharp chisels

- practise untill it's all second nature

- dovetailed pieces burn just fine in the woodstove, so keep practising

Regards, Rod.