Shop lighting quandry

[Joe Meazle]

Hello all,

I am at the point in my shop/garage rehab that I need to choose some lights. I know that a lot of folks like the T8 lights. I have looked at those and I am not crazy about fluorescent light. I was thinking about a couple of other options. The cheapest is the $2.00 light socket. I was also considering track lighting it is not too expensive either (same or less that a T8). These choices offer me some versatility. I can use fluorescent bulbs in the summer when there is more natural light to be had and less heat is a good thing as well as less energy consumption. Then I could switch to incandescent or halogen in the winter when more heat and light are a plus. Does this sound crazy to you guys? Has anybody done this in their shop? If so how do you like it. I guess I like the versatility that the screw in socket fixtures give me.

Thanks for you input

Joe

[Jim Becker]

Flourescents have never been my favorite, either. But as part of my recently finished shop reconfiguration, I needed to add another fixture over where the table saw now sits. Due to "market conditions", I was "forced" to buy a T8 fixture and I opted for a couple of 32 watt T8 "Daylight" bulbs. Oh my gosh. Now, that's light. I can't wait for the tubes in my other fixtures to burn up so I can justify replacing them with the daylight variety! I was really taken by the brightness and the color of these bulbs. I honestly think I could do without the incandescents I have sprinkled around the shop if I change to better tubes. But that's me...your situation might be different. I do use halogens at the lathe for both added light and "flicker" safety.

[David Tang]

I researched this issue extensively before I decided to go with 4 double banks of T-8s in my small basement shop. I considered track lighting as well. Height is at a premium in my shop. I could easily fit the 4' fluorescents in between joists. With the other types, they'd have to extend down a few inches to provide more "throw" onto the work surfaces, and I would be bumping my head on the fixtures. Also, shadows are bad for a shop. I found that the fluorescents provided more light at fewer watts.

BTW, if you do go with fluorescents, get the T-8s. They're more expensive, but they have two advantages over the T-12s: 1) The electronic ballasts that give you instant on (even in cold temps) and 2) I've heard that the T-12s have a strobing effect (i.e., spinning saw blades look like they're not moving).

Good luck with your new shop.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Joe....FWW had an article that covered shop lighting. I bought it and was sold on T-8's for all the reasons Jim B. listed. If you are considering T-8's one thing to watch ....initially at BORG I was looking at a surface mount (4" protrusion) fixture with 2 - 48" bulbs priced at about $39.00. Based on that and the article it was going to cost me about $700 to light my new shop. One day while "window" shopping at the same BORG I happened to see a different fixture with 4 - 48" T-8 bulbs for $41.00. Taking the manufacturers p/n off the sticker, I went online at the MFR's site and read the specs.....same ballast, just 4 bulbs. In short.....my light costs got cut nearly in half! Good luck with whatever decision you make!

[Jamie Buxton]

Joe --
I now have both fluorescent tubes and incandescents (90W halogen floods) in my shop. In the summer, I use the incandescents to keep the shop cooler, except when I need the color clarity of halogen. In the winter I just use the floods. They give better light, work in the cold, and I think actually heat the shop a bit!

[Chris Padilla]

Ken,

I'm glad you posted that about the Borg because I found the exact same lights and was wondering about it. Now I'll get the $41 T-8s. I'm still considering some cans (maybe halogen, maybe incandescant, maybe still fluourescent) for over the workbench but maybe not.

How did you wire in the fixtures? Direct or did you put outlets in the ceiling? How did you mount the fixtures, too? It would be nice to flush mount them with the ceiling but my framing runs perpendicular to what might be a better layout of the light fixtures. Got any pics, Ken???? ;) :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris......I will wire them direct. I will surface mount them over the wallboard on the ceiling with 12 inches of conduit interconnecting them. My finished ceiling height will be 9'7" so surface mounting is not a problem. I will be painting my shop's interior with an exterior flat white paint to maximize light without glare. I will also put some
'light circuit" outlets in the ceiling near the walls so I can put lights there and possibly angle the fixtures if I desire side lighting on a project. My wall outlets will be at a 52 inch height so that sheet goods standing against a wall won't block access to the outlets. I plan on putting a couple of "light circuit" outlets in the walls above my work benches so I might add under cabinet lighting later for close detail bench work. I just finished painting the main body shop exterior with 2 coats of paint Saturday. Only the door trim and facia is still in need of paint. I hope to finish that in the next couple of mornings if it stops raining. I have the electrical service entry components sitting in the shop. I have to work this weekend so probably next weekend I start I haven't got that far yet ......thus no pics. Please don't send the Pic Patrol!

[Joe Meazle]

Thanks Guys,

Thanks youfor the responses.
Jim,
I have already checked our the lighting in your shop pics and noticed the halogen by the lathe. Nice space.

Ken,
I have read that FWW article about 5 times. The 8' 4bulb T8 fixture is the one I was planing on using if I went that way.

Jamie,
Sounds like you are doing a little of what I am inquiring about. Have you tried any fo tjhe fl bulbs?

I know the T8s can give good lights. This topic has come up here before. You guys have convinced me of that. My issue is that with the other options I can use a variety of bulbs including fl, ic, and ha. the way I am leaning is a couple of 8 foot track lights and 4 may be 6 bulbs with a procetive cover. If that dosent geve me enough general light i will add some T8s
Thanks again
Joe

[JayStPeter]

I got a bunch of the $20 2-bulb T-8 fixtures from the borg. Even though the ballast is electronic, they still buzz. Also, 2 out of 20 were DOA. Overall, I needed to cut the costs, so no regrets. I wish I could've gotten some higher quality units though.
On the other hand, I got some nice bulbs (92 CRI). The lighting in the shop is excellent. Price wasn't much different than regular bulbs at my local lighting joint (still not too cheap for 40 bulbs though).

Oh yeah, careful with getting 8'ers. Check availability of the bulbs you want first. I live in a small town and couldn't find anyplace within 45 minutes that sells high CRI 8' bulbs. Shipping on internet orders is outrageous. So, I went with 4'ers that I can get (although I have to order them).

Jay

[Ralph Morris]

T-8 are they fluourescent lamps? That's funny we all need "lights" to see our work. One vacation trip up northern Wisconsin, my brother took me to a place way out in the middle "no where" where a guy had a woodshop. Once we got out of the car, boy tons of those blood sucking little skeeters start attacking you, had to race inside. Once inside I notice all doors were opened! Didn't bother three other woodworkers. Sorry I jumped off the "light" thing, I will get back to it. Met the workers and talked about what they make and sell. The owner wanted to show me his table saw.. wow made in 1929 and still ran great and so smooth. Get this.. he had only one light bulb in the whole sawing, edge planer, bandsaw, and surface planer area ! Kinda too dark for all of us!:eek:

[Joe Meazle]

Thanks Ralph,

That is kinda where I am coming from. My garage has one bare bulb and one outlet. it houses my bandsaw and DJ-20, both run on 230 and i have an extenson cord that i run from the laundry room. The room in the house that I have annexed houses every thing else and is lit only by 2 floor lamps. What ever I do it is going to be a vast improvment.
Joe

[mike lucas]

I am not having any luck while searching for the lights you all are talking about. Could someone please help? I need more detail about these lights as I am also lighting my new 32'x32'x9.3' shop.

Right now I have 10- $10 cheap 4' lights (I am sure most know how bad these cheap lights flicker) that came from my old shop. I was thinking of getting 12-15 more of these plus maybe 6 $2 porcilin light fixtures.
But you have got me thinking about using the light you are discussing.

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

Mike, you gave no indication where you are looking for your lighting (or where you live), but consider talking with a local electrical supply house, rather than trying to fudge things at the 'borg. You'll likely find that the pricing isn't all that different in the long run and you'll get the advise and attention you need. For a large shop like yours, quality lighting doesn't come in inexpensive 4' fixtures that flicker, fail to start in the cold and generally operate inefficiently.

[David Tang]

Mike, you gave no indication where you are looking for your lighting (or where you live), but consider talking with a local electrical supply house, rather than trying to fudge things at the 'borg. You'll likely find that the pricing isn't all that different in the long run and you'll get the advise and attention you need. For a large shop like yours, quality lighting doesn't come in inexpensive 4' fixtures that flicker, fail to start in the cold and generally operate inefficiently.
Amen. I bought four 4' T8 fixtures at an electrical supply shop. Plus, they were really helpful when I had questions about wiring.

I also bought those plastic tube covers for each bulb at $2 each. You never know - flipping an 8' board around in my shop/cave is a dicey proposition.;)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike, the fixtures I'm using are 8 foot in length and take 4 - 48" T-8 bulbs. The fixture uses an electronic balast which is supposed to be quieter and work better at cold temperatures. I found them at the Borg. I found that you can take the manufacturers part number off the box and you can go online to the manufacturers website and read the spec sheet on a particular lamp fixture. I haven't purchased them yet but will be doing so in the next couple of weeks as I start wiring my shop. I'll want them so that I can make the final decision on how I'll be wiring them. If I could find something similar at a local lighting shop....I'd do it to lend support to local businesses. While I found cheaper fixtures these ran about $41.00 without the lamps.

[John Renzetti]

hi, As a lot of us have found out, as we get older we need more light. I used double 8' flourescents thoughout the shop, plus some 4' here and there. The bulbs are something called Ultra lume. Very high color rendition. One thing I found out about ballasts is that there can be wide variations in classification and quality. Also the sound rating can vary and it appears that the ballast rating can determine the cost. A good ballast can cost as much or more than the fixture. The ballasts I found at HD had a "C" noise rating. I even got a couple of electronic ones and these still had some hum. The ones I got from the electrical supply house were more expensive but were very quiet.
For a task light over the workbench area I'm looking at a low bay metal halide lamp that is sold by Griots.
take care,
John

[Larry Browning]

Mike,
My shop is 30 X 30 X 9. I put 4 rows of 3 fixtures of the 8' quad bulb t-8's in it. This was pretty expensive (I think I spent about $800) but I now have a well lit shop that I never have to worry or fuss over and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Just bite the bullet and do it. It only hurts for a little while.
Oh, I started doing all the lighting calculations, and I had more questions than answers, so I just looked at my space, studied how the light were layed out in a few stores and offices to figure the number of fixtures and installed them. I couldn't be happier.

Larry

[Bill Grumbine]

I am not a lighting expert, and I am not even sure what a T8 fixture is, but here is what I did just about two weeks ago. I got rid of those stupid $8.00 Home Depot garbage lights that work for a while and then break. I installed four 8' high out put florescent fixtures, which now serve to light my shop like it is daytime. I have halogen lights over the lathe and I wil be reinstalling some other halogens at various workspots.

A word about flicker. It is a phenomenon of florescent lights, regardless of the quality of the fixture. In the past couple of weeks I have demonstrated that to several folks in two different shops using a lathe with variable speed. By varying the speed control, I can make the chuck look like it is spinning forward, backward, or standing still. Florescents are good for general lighting, but anything that is moving, especially lathes and table saws, should have an incandescent light of some sort.

Bill

[Joe Meazle]

Larry,

how are those Dragons doing this year? I grew up on the other side of the AR river from you in Charleston. Back then Mtnburg as in the same conference I am not sure anymore.

30 by 30 wow. Is it leagle for me to work wood in Ark. with less 800sf of space.

Are ther any good hardwood sources in that area?
Joe

[Larry Browning]

Larry,

how are those Dragons doing this year? I grew up on the other side of the AR river from you in Charleston. Back then Mtnburg as in the same conference I am not sure anymore.

30 by 30 wow. Is it leagle for me to work wood in Ark. with less 800sf of space.

Are ther any good hardwood sources in that area?
Joe
Joe,
Actually I live about 10 miles south of Mountainburg and hardly ever go north into town. I work in Fort Smith, so I tend to go into Alma, Van Buren and FS.
The wife is a teacher in Cedarville and there is a small Sawmill just south of Cedarville on Hwy 59 called M&M Lumber. You never know what they might have, but they mostly carry Ash, Oak, and of course Cedar.

The shop building is actally 30X42 with an 10X16 office/storage room attached. The main shop area is 30X30 with a 12X14 finishing room and a bathroom. I built it about a year ago and am still working on it. The next big project will be a dust colection system , but who knows when I will start on that.
Are you coming to the BBQ this weekend?

Larry

[Joe Meazle]

Larry,
How are Pirates doing this year then. I use to have to travel to Ceaderville as well to play a little FB. I am trying to convice the boss that I will be useless fri (not a difficult task) and should not come to work. I am planing on coming and Terry H. said taht he would like to take a look at my mortiser xy modification. So will be toting that up if i can make it. Kevin Gerstenecker is bing me some greenhouse glazing so I would lkie to be there personally to thank him but I think Dennis Peacock will bring it back to Ctown for me if I can't. I recall the posts about your shop when you were working on it. You should be very proud.
Joe

[Larry Browning]

Larry,
How are Pirates doing this year then. I use to have to travel to Ceaderville as well to play a little FB. I am trying to convice the boss that I will be useless fri (not a difficult task) and should not come to work. I am planing on coming and Terry H. said taht he would like to take a look at my mortiser xy modification. So will be toting that up if i can make it. Kevin Gerstenecker is bing me some greenhouse glazing so I would lkie to be there personally to thank him but I think Dennis Peacock will bring it back to Ctown for me if I can't. I recall the posts about your shop when you were working on it. You should be very proud.
Joe
Joe,
I don't follow HS football like I used to, but we try to go to a couple of games each year.(SWMBO says her students really like to see her there) We went last week, the refs never showed up and Cedarville had to forefit. What a kick in the pants! I had never seen that happen.

Larry

[Bob Aquino]

Here is one alternative you might want to consider. About 6 months ago I went from about 4 of the double tube cheapo fixtures to a system using flourescent floods. You can see my original post here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=8955.

6 Months after living with the system, I'm still happy with it. Cost is pretty reasonable, light output is very good, only takes about 100 watts all told for all the lights. Again, downside is about a 1-2 min warmup to full brightness and they are on the warmer side of the color spectrum. I will probably add another two lights to the system and bring it up to 10 bulbs altogether when I plumb in the dust collection for my new 18" delta bandsaw.

[Joe Meazle]

Bob Thanks,

That is very similar to what I am planning. Have you had any trouble in the winter with cold effecting the lights. In the small space that I have i am hoping that replacing the Fl bulbs with Ha will create a little heat.
Thanks,
Joe

[Bob Aquino]

The colder it is, the longer they will take to come to full brightness. If it were 30 degrees then they would probably take about 3 mins or so to come up. They dont run cold, but they are not nearly as hot as incandescents. The nice thing about this system is that you can point the lights where you need them and create some pretty bright work areas. You could always include a tradional flourescent or incandescent fixture to give you some instant light when you first flip the switch.