A few questions on my first router purchase, and table construction

[Michael Gramm]

As I'm planning my first router purchase, and the plans for the router table I will be building, I ended up with a couple of small questions:


1. I'll be gluing up two MDF panels, and putting laminate on both sides. Is there any reason I can't do that first, and then rout the entire assembly for the mounting plate? Or will that damage the laminate - in which case I'll rout the glued MDF panels first, and then do what with the laminate?

2. While putting together my list of router bits, I discovered that some of the straight bits have an end bore. But I can't find any information on end bores for router bits, so I don't know what purpose they serve (since to my knowledge, you can plunge with straight bits), whether or not they change the cut profile, and whether they're worth it. Can anyone clue me in?


Thanks!

[Danny Thompson]

In my experience, you should laminate, then route. This assumes you have a good mechanism for ensuring a straight cut the first time. There won't be any do-over's.

[glenn bradley]

+1 on laminate, then mill.

"Plunge" bits have a center cutting surface so you don't have to burn your way in on the initial plunge for some bits. A core box or a v-groove, for example, would not require this. A two flute 5/8" diameter straight bit may depending on the design.

[Stephen Edwards]

I would suggest that before you make the cut in your new top for the router plate that you ask for suggestions and techniques for that particular operation. There are lots of threads on here already that address that with good sound advice. Better safe than sorry.

Best Wishes!

[sean m. titmas]

On my tables I doubled up the MDF first than put the router base on the MDF top in the location i want. than I tack on a few strips of 1x4 MDF scraps around the perimeter of the lift's base with 1" staples and use some heavy card stock to offset the jig just a skosh. the scraps act as a guide for the bearing and give it a place to run the router on. after i route to the correct depth + 1/16" with a flush trim bit i remove the MDF guides and cut the rest out with a jigsaw. the final step is to apply the P-lam and trim it flush.

I recommend buying the Jessem Mast-R-Lift router base. it is large enough to hold the 3hp Porter Cable, has easy change inserts, bit change from the topside with both nuts on top of the table, built in levelers to flush up the lift with the surrounding table, and a removeable crank to raise/lower also from the topside. For 250 it was money well spent for a quality tool.

[John Lucas]

I did much the same 8 years ago ... here is story: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/sstat-4.htm



http://www.woodshopdemos.com/sstat-17.jpg

[Don Morris]

Another for laminate then mill. I did exactly as you are planning, worked fine and my router is that heavy PC beast the 7518. Only caution is when I did a second table to accomodate a new TS, the laminate was already on a commercial extension table for the new TS...a Grizzly. The laminate was really thin and chipped off when I pulled some double sided tape off (as per instruction for router lift installation). As long as you're using good laminate, and do a good job of laminating, that shouldn't happen. Make sure your MDF is thick enough. At least 3/4" from what I've heard...I used 1".

[Gerry Lopez]

I used 3/4 MDF and laminated to pieces, pretty stout 32x43. Cut out plate opening first. Then laminated the top. When I trimmed the edge of top had one little spot where the laminate was chipped. I attribute that to my lack of experience and skill, being a novice.

Hope this helps,

G.L.

[Jay Jeffery]

Not all straight bits are well suited for plunging.
When I built my router table a couple months ago, I think I drilled a hole somewhere inside the cut out to avoid having to do a full plunge.

[Stephen Edwards]

Not all straight bits are well suited for plunging.
When I built my router table a couple months ago, I think I drilled a hole somewhere inside the cut out to avoid having to do a full plunge.

Good point. In fact, if I'm understanding what Michael wants to do, I recommend drilling all four corners of the cutout, slightly inside the finished line of the cutout, and then do a rough cut out with a jig saw. Leave maybe 1/8" max to trim with the router bit, from your rough cut out to the finished line.

Again, if I'm understanding you correctly, you shouldn't have to do a "plunge" cut at all.

My two cents.

[sean m. titmas]

Good point. In fact, if I'm understanding what Michael wants to do, I recommend drilling all four corners of the cutout, slightly inside the finished line of the cutout, and then do a rough cut out with a jig saw. Leave maybe 1/8" max to trim with the router bit, from your rough cut out to the finished line.

Again, if I'm understanding you correctly, you shouldn't have to do a "plunge" cut at all.

My two cents.

your right about it being a plunge cut, however it is only about 1/4" to 3/8" deep on 3/4" stock. there needs to be a minimum of 3/4" lip for the base plate to sit on otherwise it would fall through the hole.

the best way to start the cut is to do a running plunge cut so that the side of the bit does the majority of the cutting. make one pass around the inside of the template with a 3/4" straight bit and than use a jigsaw to cut along the inside of the dado, cutting loose the inner field of mdf and leaving the 3/4" dado.

[sean m. titmas]

here is a detail

[Michael Gramm]

+1 on laminate, then mill.

"Plunge" bits have a center cutting surface so you don't have to burn your way in on the initial plunge for some bits. A core box or a v-groove, for example, would not require this. A two flute 5/8" diameter straight bit may depending on the design.


So straight bits are not plungeable unless they have that end bore?

[Michael Gramm]

I would suggest that before you make the cut in your new top for the router plate that you ask for suggestions and techniques for that particular operation. There are lots of threads on here already that address that with good sound advice. Better safe than sorry.

Best Wishes!


I was going to follow the procedure outlined by Bill Hylton, creating a template from the original plate, and then using it to rout out the workpiece. What I needed additional information on was what to do about the laminate.

[Michael Gramm]

Another for laminate then mill. I did exactly as you are planning, worked fine and my router is that heavy PC beast the 7518. Only caution is when I did a second table to accomodate a new TS, the laminate was already on a commercial extension table for the new TS...a Grizzly. The laminate was really thin and chipped off when I pulled some double sided tape off (as per instruction for router lift installation). As long as you're using good laminate, and do a good job of laminating, that shouldn't happen.




Got it. Cheap laminate is prone to chipping, good laminate is not. Unfortunately, this will be the first time I've worked with the stuff, so I'm not sure I know how to tell the difference. But I'll give it a shot! :)

[Michael Gramm]

Good point. In fact, if I'm understanding what Michael wants to do, I recommend drilling all four corners of the cutout, slightly inside the finished line of the cutout, and then do a rough cut out with a jig saw. Leave maybe 1/8" max to trim with the router bit, from your rough cut out to the finished line.

Again, if I'm understanding you correctly, you shouldn't have to do a "plunge" cut at all.

My two cents.




I can't use flush trim methods based on the procedure I'm following, because I'll be using guide bushings to create the template - which will be larger than the original plate.

[sean m. titmas]

So straight bits are not plungeable unless they have that end bore?


if you are using a plunge base to route a slot or mortice its better to use the bit with an end bore but for other applications ( shallow depth of cut, waste wood to one side of cut, etc) you can do a running plunge where you angle the bit down and cut while you move the fixed base router about 2".

[sean m. titmas]

I can't use flush trim methods based on the procedure I'm following, because I'll be using guide bushings to create the template - which will be larger than the original plate.


if you are using a guide bushing to make the cut in stead of a top bearing router bit than follow the method i described earlier but instead of tacking the MDF strips against the base plate use a spacer strip equal to the size of the bushing offset to offset the MDF template. you can also do a running plunge with this method.

[Michael Gramm]

Okay, I need to modify my original plans - I think.

Originally, I was going to use a 1/4" straight bit with a 3/8" guide bushing to create a plywood template, and another guide bushing to rout out the ledge in the final table, using a jigsaw to take out the center waste.

However, the mounting plate has 1/2" radius corners. So, unless I'm mistaken, I can't use bits larger than 1/2" in diameter. I don't know if a 1/2" ledge is sufficient in MDF, but even if it was, I'd need a 1 1/8" guide bushing, which no one seems to make. If I use a 3/8" bit to rout the ledge, I can get away with a 1" guide bushing, which is obtainable - but 3/8" seems a little too narrow for the ledge.

The other idea I had was to use cleats. I'd flush cut the hole for the plate, insert it, and flip the whole thing over, so the plate was flush with the table surface (upside down on another flat surface). In that position, I'd screw in wood cleats on the four sides around the base. The problem with that is that from what I understand, MDF doesn't hold screws well.


So, I'm a bit lost as to the best way to do this. (I tried searching the board, but the search function was broken at the time)

[sean m. titmas]

Okay, I need to modify my original plans - I think.

Originally, I was going to use a 1/4" straight bit with a 3/8" guide bushing to create a plywood template, and another guide bushing to rout out the ledge in the final table, using a jigsaw to take out the center waste.

if you use 1x4 mdf strips tacked around the base plate you only need to make one jig and one pass with the router. this is a simple operation that uses basic template skills so try not to over think and over engineer the process.

However, the mounting plate has 1/2" radius corners. So, unless I'm mistaken, I can't use bits larger than 1/2" in diameter. I don't know if a 1/2" ledge is sufficient in MDF, but even if it was, I'd need a 1 1/8" guide bushing, which no one seems to make. If I use a 3/8" bit to rout the ledge, I can get away with a 1" guide bushing, which is obtainable - but 3/8" seems a little too narrow for the ledge.

the 1/4" bit with a 1/2" bushing will cut whatever size radius you want as long as the template follows the base plates every curve. using the 1x4 mdf strip method requires that you cut a quarter circle wedge to follow the outline of the base plate in the void of the corner of the template. for stability i recommend a 3/4" ledge min.

The other idea I had was to use cleats. I'd flush cut the hole for the plate, insert it, and flip the whole thing over, so the plate was flush with the table surface (upside down on another flat surface). In that position, I'd screw in wood cleats on the four sides around the base. The problem with that is that from what I understand, MDF doesn't hold screws well.

2x2 solid wood cleats cut into al "L" profile and 2" shorter than the length and width of the base plate is a good idea. instead of screws try using some 1.5" sex bolts to secure them to the mdf. 2 per side will hold adequately.

So, I'm a bit lost as to the best way to do this. (I tried searching the board, but the search function was broken at the time)

I perfer the lip method but the cleat idea is also a good idea that i might use next time.

[Stephen Edwards]

Michael,

Here's one method of cutting the hole for your insert. It's very simple and easy to do. Unless you have your heart set on using bushings and cutting a lip, this method is much more simple to do and just as strong (perhaps stronger) than the lip method in MDF, IMHO. If I understand you correctly your top is two layers of MDF and laminate on both sides. This method uses cleats, rather than a lip.

The only router bit that you need is a flush trim bit that is the same diameter as the radius of your router plate corners and has a cutting length that is a little more than half the thickness of your table top. The bit can be either a top or bottom bearing bit.

At the time that I did this I had only a bottom bearing bit with a cutting length of 1". If I remember correctly the radius of the plate and the bit is 3/4". I used the Rockler plate. The picture below is the end result.

127554

I made the cleats from hardwood, I forget what it was, Ash, I think. It's glued and clamped to the edges of the cutout. No screws holding it the table top.

The 6 screws that are coming up through the cleats are provided with the plate. If your plate doesn't have them, you can buy them or something else that will work. My plate is an aluminum plate and doesn't need levelers on the ends. I don't know if a phenolic plate would need them or not.

The holes in the upper left and lower right corners are the holes that accommodate the plate hold down machine screws. I think that's what they're called. The hole in the lower right corner was a mistake. Never mind that!

Here's what it looks like installed.

127555

If you're interested in this method please let me know. I'll be glad to post simple, easy to understand and follow, step by step instructions for cutting the hole in your new router table top.

Whatever method that you decide, best wishes and happy woodworking!

Kind Regards,

[johnny means]

Got it. Cheap laminate is prone to chipping, good laminate is not. Unfortunately, this will be the first time I've worked with the stuff, so I'm not sure I know how to tell the difference. But I'll give it a shot! :)

All laminate is prone to chipping. Nature of the beast. Brand wise Formica brand chips more than Wilsonart. Never really worked with any others.