What tools do I need to sharpen saws?

[Jeff Skory]

I'm expanding my horizons into hand saws. Based on the feedback in a previous thread I posted I contacted Tom Law and he is going to be sending me a rip and a crosscut saw. So I should be able to see how a sharp saw is supposed to work. For my b-day or xmas I am going to ask for a dovetail saw.

So this weekend I visited a couple of indoor flea markets and bought a handful of old saws so that I can learn how to sharpen them.

My dilemma is that I do not know what tools to buy or where to buy them from. I believe I need a saw vise, some files, and maybe a plier-type tool to set the tooth.

So I would appreciate advise on what to buy. Also what are your suggestions for best tutorials on this subject? Tom Law's dvd? Links? others?

[Robert Rozaieski]

A timely question indeed. I'm actually in the middle of working on a saw sharpening episode for my podcast. It might be helpful if you are interested. I'm not a pro but I've sharpened my fair share of saws.

A saw vise is a nice to have but not necessary to get started. You can use a couple of sticks on either side of the saw plate and simply clamp the whole assembly in your bench vise to make do until you decide that you want a dedicated saw vise. I did this for years before I got a proper saw vise.

For jointing the saw, you'll need a mil file. I use a 6" file that I hold against a square block but any size mil file will work. I've used up to a 12" file for jointing.

For shaping and sharpening you'll need a properly sized triangular tapered saw file. Lots of places carry them. Tools for Working Wood and The Best Things both carry a complete line of saw files sized for everything from the coarsest rip saw to the finest dovetail saw. You need ones properly sized for your saws based on how many points per inch the saws have.

You'll eventually need a saw set. You don't necessarily need to set the teeth every time you sharpen. If the teeth already have enough set in them and you are just touching them up to keep them sharp, you may not need to set them. But if they do need to be set, a plier type set is the easiest one to use.

For the best written tutorial I know of on sharpening saws, see here (http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html).

[Jeff Skory]

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the info. And yes I will definitely watch you podcast. I have watched several already and have enjoyed them. Which reminds me that I need to go download some more of them to my iTouch.

So does the saw vise have any benefits over using a leg vise or other workbench vise? I can see that maybe you would be able to leave the handle on with a saw vise whereas with my leg vise I would probably need to remove the handle (no big deal).

[Michael Faurot]

Here's some other things that will come in handy when sharpening saws:


Patience.
Some inexpensive reading glasses. Walmart has these for about $10. Even if you all ready wear glasses or have good vision, these can come in handy to be able to get a really good view of the teeth you're working on. HINT: pick-up one of the hand saws from the tool area, then take it to the drugs area and then try the different reading glasses by looking at the teeth of the saw. Go with the ones that let you see the teeth the best. Put the cheap hand saw back in the tool area. :)
Get some machinist's blue dye. Highland (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=990) has this for about $10. Paint the teeth with this, before you start filing. This will let you easily identify the teeth you've all ready filed. This comes in handy when you take your eyes away from what you're working on, and then have to look back and and figure out which teeth you've all ready done.

[harry strasil]

sooting the teeth with a candle works too.

[Doug Mason]

The most important tool is "persaverance." People who lack this, be it in woodworking or any pursuit, usually give up after a couple unsussesful tries.

Also, I did what you did and bought a couple old saws to practice on. In hindsight, it wasn't necessary. Just practice on your LN/LV or whatever it is you have--these are not hierlooms but tools. So what if you screw it up--you can fix it. It will take me a lifetime of hobby use to file down my LN saws.

[Tom Veatch]

...
So this weekend I visited a couple of indoor flea markets and bought a handful of old saws so that I can learn how to sharpen them.

My dilemma is that I do not know what tools to buy or where to buy them from. I believe I need a saw vise, some files, and maybe a plier-type tool to set the tooth.

So I would appreciate advise on what to buy. Also what are your suggestions for best tutorials on this subject? Tom Law's dvd? Links? others?

Check out this site if you haven't already found it:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html

Specific to your question: http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

[Robert Rozaieski]

Also, I did what you did and bought a couple old saws to practice on. In hindsight, it wasn't necessary. Just practice on your LN/LV or whatever it is you have--these are not hierlooms but tools. So what if you screw it up--you can fix it. It will take me a lifetime of hobby use to file down my LN saws.

Doug, you make a really good point here. Not only are they easy to fix if you do screw them up, but more importantly, they already have properly shaped teeth. In my experience, fixing an old junker with really badly shaped teeth is a lot harder and a lot more work than just sharpening a saw that already has well shaped teeth and just needs a touch up. So go ahead and try it on your LN, LV, Wenzloff, Adria, Bad Axe or whatever. It will actually be easier on these saws than it will be on an old junker that needs a full retoothing.

[george wilson]

I usually zip a piece of white,or better,blue chalk over the teeth to see where I have already filed more easily. Soot also works.

[Jeff Skory]

Fantastic info! Thank you all. Looks like its time to do some reading. :)

[David Keller NC]

Jeff - Regarding a saw set - The best-liked vintage one is the Stanley 42X, at least for panel saws. Stanley also made a smaller one designed for backsaws down to about 15 tpi or so - can't quite remember the number designation for this off-hand.

There are newly manufactured ones available; I think TFWW carries them, as well as a newly designed and produced saw vise.

On the saw vise, there are some advantages; one of which is bringing the work up 12" or so above the bench, which for woodworking is on average a bit low for saw filing. The Disston 3Ds are sought after - these vises would let you rotate the saw tooth line forwards, backwards, and to the side (hence the "3D" designation). Definitely a nice-to-have, but an expensive nice-to-have. Tage Frid has plans in his 3 volume set for an ultra-cheap shop made vise that works very well.

The Stanley 42X in good condition is also an expensive tool because of its popularity (about $100 in good shape). BUT you can very effectively set a saw with a 10 penny nail (or a finish nail for a DT saw) and a small hammer. The weight of the hammer is important - in this job, you vary the weight of the hammer, not the force of the blow, to keep a consistent set down the tooth line.

One other item that's useful when sharpening saws is a medium oil stone. It's not at all uncommon to find the flea market saws with way too much set, and even some high-end DT saws may come with too much set for working in really hard woods. The medium oil stone is stroked down the side of the teeth, which removes some of the set very effectively. Note that you can only do this 2 or 3 times before you thin out the tooth so much that it will break off.

[george wilson]

You can easily make a saw vise out of hard wood,and clamp it onto the saw blade with "C" clamps on either end. If you have a wooden jawed vise,you can "add on" to the tops of the jaws with a 12" long piece of hardwood on each jaw,maybe 4" high. Angle them in a bit. Screw them to the regular jaws. This makes the vise deep enough to accept a full width blade. You don't even need to screw them to the jaws. Make 2 jaws about 7" deep out of hardwood,or even 3/4" plywood. Just set them into your bench vise,resting them on the bottom of the vise. Put a strip of 1/4" wood in the bottom of the vise. Nail 1/4" strips of wood to these jaws near the top edge of the vise. The saw jaws will pinch in at the top,holding the blade near the teeth. You could loosely attach the set of saw jaws together,to keep everything from getting lost. Just take them,drop them into the vise,and sharpen.

[James Carmichael]

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2nwp6/saw/saws.htm

[william scott]

I'm new here, and I'm working on learning to sharpen saws as well. Search high and low to find a friendly junk dealer/antique dealer and you can do quite well on equipment. My sawset is a Morrill 'Special', which has a dial with the various set angles on it. I paid $5 for it at a yard sale. I just bought my vise, which looks like a Disston, but doesn't have any markings on it. What's nice with an actual vise is that the good ones can turn the saw too different positions to make working on it easier. My vise was $25. Files are a dime a dozen, just get good ones that aren't worn out.

Seems to me I saw a Stanley 42 on E-bay for around $25 when I was checking tools last night. E-bay can sometimes be a bargain for tools.

For those experienced with sharpening, here's a question. How do you determine what the set should be? You buy an old saw, it needs to be set as the teeth are all snaggled out in odd angles, so where do you begin? Pull some at the nose in until the saw binds and then start pushing them out until the saw runs smooth?

[Jeff Skory]

Seems to me I saw a Stanley 42 on E-bay for around $25 when I was checking tools last night. E-bay can sometimes be a bargain for tools.


Good idea. I have a couple of watches out for saw vises. Will probably hold off on the saw set for just a bit. Still need to get some good files.

[Michael Faurot]

For those experienced with sharpening, here's a question. How do you determine what the set should be?


On my set, the dial has markings that correspond to the TPI. So that's where I start. Depending on what the saw is supposed to do, I may use less set or more. For example, on a dovetail saw, I would use the minimum set I could get away with.



You buy an old saw, it needs to be set as the teeth are all snaggled out in odd angles, so where do you begin?
Take all the set out first. Joint. Sharpen. Then apply set.

[Erwin Graween]

Hi.

Eclipse sawset (#77) with brass punch are nice also and less expensive than 100$.

I have one and it works fine. Although it does cover tpi within about 15-16 tpi to 6 if I remember well.

Hope it helps.