my first hanging sign am I doing it right?

[Steve knight]

MY first sign and I want to make sure the idea will work. they want a no maintenance sign and using sintra for it all. so the back would be two peices of 1/2" sintra glued up with e6000 the one that has the uv protection. the letters will have pockets in that then glued into them. then it will be wrapped in a metal frame to be hung by. the sign will be about 5' long and about 30" tall.
is this the way to go? or should there be something in between them two 1/2" pieces of sintra. they don't want anything that has to be maintained.

[Scott Shepherd]

Sintra's not exactly a long term product for outdoors. Any reason you selected using Sintra for outdoors?

This is from their company website FAQ's :



What happens to Sintra when used outside?

Sintra will change colors when used outdoors. The amount of color change depends on the original color, UV levels, and other exposure conditions. This is true of all materials that use organic pigments. Sintra expands and contracts with temperature changes. This must be taken into account when mounting large sheets of Sintra outdoors. Sintra, like most plastic materials, has less impact resistance in cold conditions. Thinner gauges have less impact resistance than thicker ones. For this reason 6mm should be the minimum gauge used for outdoor signage.

[Keith Outten]

Steve,

A solid surface material would be my choice, Dupont Corian will last for 50 years outside and it machines like a dream. You don't need backing material to hang it and requires no maintenance. I have a lot of exterior Corian signs installed, we clean them with Windex or just soapy water every few years.
.

[Joe Pelonio]

I would say that 85% of my hanging signs are now made of Dibond or the equivalent, a thin layer of aluminum on both sides with PVC (sintra) inside. These do last forever and are light weight, but in a thickess of at least 4mm it will be over $125/ sheet 4'x8'.

[Steve knight]

I had cut out letters for a sign guy several times from sintra. so I thought it was fine silly me. I was trying to talk him into use mdo board well primed and pained for the back and sintra letters.
I was going to use dibond for some of the letters.
so ok I have two sheets of 1/2" sintra in black I hope he can return.
but maybe it could be used.
if I used all dibond the letters won't stand out much as it is so thin. could I use the black sintra cut out in the same shape and glue the dibond letters to it to raise them out?
now onto the frame. the first picture is actual frame the second one sign is mounted I have to work with. I was just going to have a U channel frame made but the material is so thin that does not seem practical.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/ALO/32ohm_Audio_front-1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/ALO/photo.jpg

[Joe Pelonio]

If the look of the edges are not too important, and you use a good plastic primer, painted 1/2" sintra will work fine for the letters. Being a foam the edges will not take paint well, so if you leave them and just spray the face the edges will remain that dark-gray. It's the background piece that I would
not use sintra for, but you could certainly make a sandwich with thinner (cheaper) dibond like 2mm on both sides, and the 1/2" sintra in between for strength and thickness, as long as you do cover the edges with a molding.

[Steve knight]

but would the background sintra expand and contract too much to work in a frame? silicone or the better polyurethane caulking would do a good job of sealing the edges I would think. plus it would work as the glue.

[Joe Pelonio]

Sintra doesn't expand and contract that much, it warps. The dibond and sealed edges would keep it flat. BTW I have 6mm black sintra signs up all over Seattle for parking lots and garages that have lasted many years. Black does not fade as badly as the other colors. I also find that 3, warps the worst, then the thicker 1/2" but 6mm for some reason seems to hold up a lot better. I think the process results in it being denser inside. Try cutting all 3 thicknesses with a utility knife, and you can see that 6mm is harder.

[Scott Shepherd]

Any reason you can't use 1/2" thick laminated plywood for the backing? The people that make dibond make 1/2" thick plywood with thin metal over it. It comes in about 10-15 colors as well. Costs about $100 a sheet with the color. You can CNC route it all you want to fit the letters in as well. You'd have a metal face panel, the edges could be sealed, or will be inside that box, and you can seal where the letters go too.

Or, perhaps just MDO and paint it. That's $50 a sheet. But, by the time you buy a gallon of paint and supplies and spend the time painting it, you could have bought the $100 painted one :)

Just thinking out loud. Joe's seen about 10,000 more of this type of job than I have, so I'd listen to him.

[Steve knight]

I will see if we can get the plywood with the faces. but unless he can return the 1/2" sintra we will be stuck with it.
I wanted to use mdo and paint it but they did not want something that had to be painted.

[Scott Shepherd]

Joe says the black does well as far as color, so maybe you'll be fine. The products you'd be looking for are Omega Board, Luster Board, or Poly Metal. I think the Poly Metal is Aluminum on 1 side. Omega and Luster are both double sided aluminum faces on a plywood core.

I've not used 1/2" thick sintra, so I have no idea what it'll do over time. Might work, I don't know.

[Steve knight]

I could only find the aluminum backed ply in white. so I got a sheet for black dibond. I will glue up the 1/2" sintra to get 1" thick laminate the dibond on both faces. I will make the faces with a carbide scratch in my cnc. the letters will be cut out of 1/2" sintra then I will glue on the dibond face in different colors. then I will glue the letters onto the dibond face. I debated cutting pockets into the dibond for the letters but that just makes things more complicated.
I had forgotten about corian. though I would have had to find a place to order it. I don't think I could find any I could buy locally.

[Keith Outten]

Steve,

There is a sticky thread in this forum with a telephone number to call Dupont. Make the call, they will have your local distributor contact you and setup an account for your company. Avonite is another solid surface material that is a possibility but the majority of the time I can purchase Corian cheaper in my area.

Another great material for exterior signs is Color Core. Its plastic sheet available with two colors, much like engravers plastic but for routers. You route away the top color to expose the color in the middle of the sheet...no painting at all. Color Core is used in the marine industry and will even stand up to salt water.

Products like Corian and Color Core will cut your labor costs significantly over traditional sign materials and reduce your customers maintenance costs. Time is money.

[Steve knight]

I will work on the corian. I have only made two signs so I have a ways to go. I have played with color core but never thought of it for a outdoor sign.

[Steve knight]

got the first side done. it's hard to get a good picture. I have the mdf sample there too. hard to see the difference between the black sintra and the aluminum letters.
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/signs/
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/signs/P1010181.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/signs/P1010182.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/signs/P1010183.jpg

[Scott Shepherd]

Looking good Steve! Make sure to post photos once it's installed!

Thanks for sharing.

[Doug Bergstrom]

I have Sintra signs that have been outside for over 7 years and look great. You can paint it with any kind of paint just use a good plastic primer first. We now us more alumalite and diebond because of weight. All of the coated woods will warp and rot over time. I am not sure why they still have them.