Money to spend; Workshop to populate

[Phil John]

Hi

It’s coming up to our anniversary and my bride has authorized woodworking tool purchases. It is a joyous day. I will be basically starting from scratch with half a 2 car garage as my workshop (need to share it with the mower etc). I would consider myself a serious amateur. My ambitions far exceed my talent, but I do have a father and a grandfather who are both carpenters, so I have absorbed all that I can via osmosis. Dad built a lot of the furniture in our home, so I have that inspiration (and an international phone call away).

My projects:
Bookcase (or 2)
Small Dining Table (comfortable for 2 but 4 at a pinch)
Large Dining Table (needs to sit 8)
Kitchen cabinets
Baseboard Molding
Computer desk

My budget: $4,000

I really like the grain pattern of birch, so had planned on starting with it and staining it to more of a aged cherry / mahogany color (Jarrah is what I am going for).

I suspect I will be purchasing mostly finished lumber, but for the large dining table I am eyeing off some rough timber – the wider the better.


My shopping list:

Grizzly G0691 10” table saw
Mobile base and extension kit for above

Grizzly G0453 15” planer

H7768 15” Shelix Cutterhead for above planer

Grizzly G1026 shaper
Mobile base for above


Total cost is just under $4000.

I am looking for feedback.


Instead of getting a jointer, I was thinking of using a sled on the planer (hence the improved cutterhead), and buying a #7 hand plane.

I think the table saw is essentially a lock.


My main question: Should I ditch the shaper and planer to buy a 12” planer/jointer combo machine?

My thought was that the extra 3” on the planer might come in handy for some larger drawers and glued lumber, plus I can still keep my shaper (the kitchen project and the new floor will be sooner rather than later).

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks,


Phil


PS I am researching dust collection as we speak (already have the respirator, filters and custom ear plugs).

[John M Bailey]

I agree with your tool choice, especially the G0691, but I would suggest that you not buy the mobile base from Shop Fox. That base is rated a few pounds above the weight of the G0691, but should be rated two hundred pounds less. Get a better mobile base.

[Bill Arnold]

Here are a couple (or more) thoughts on your purchases based on my practical experience.

A shaper might seem like a great idea, but you can do everything you're planning with a "handheld" router package and a DIY table. I've done everything from simple mouldings to raised panels using a Bosch 2.25HP router in a very basic table. You can get their PK kit which includes a fixed base and a plunge base for around $200. I attached the fixed base under a simple MDF "table" and used the plunge base for handheld processes.

I've often wished I had something larger than my 12.5" Delta planer but have built some decent stuff that included wide glue-ups. I carefully plane pieces that are going into a glue-up, align the edges with biscuits and have no more than a little sanding to finish flattening the panels.

Your thought about using the planer in place of a jointer is valid. I got a jointer early on and can't imagine working without it. Having said that, I have used the face jointing process you describe and it works fine.

I hope this helps your decision-making.

[David Keller NC]

Ditto on ditching the shaper. I'd buy a good bandsaw or the necessary materials and fittings to make a good router table. You may not initially think you've a need for a bandsaw, but I promise you that you will want a way to cut curves, and to make small, precision cuts that would be very dangerous with a table saw.

Also consider that you have to have a way to cut M&T joints for some of the furniture you mentioned. I do all of mine with a mortise chisel, but buying a dedicated mortiser seems to be most folks preference. You can also buy a drill press for very little money and use it to form most of the mortise and use paring chisels to square them up.

Then there's the Festool Domino option (which uses loose tenons).

All of the above will work fine, and it's largely a matter of preference. But you've got to have a way to do it somehow if you intend to build tables, chairs and some types of casework.

[Brian Willan]

My projects:
Bookcase (or 2)
Small Dining Table (comfortable for 2 but 4 at a pinch)
Large Dining Table (needs to sit 8)
Kitchen cabinets
Baseboard Molding
Computer desk

My budget: $4,000



Is your budget strictly for tools? Does the lumber for the above projects needs to come from this $4k total?

What tools do you already have? Of course, you should ideally start looking for good quality used wood working tools. Your tool budget will go much further that route. If you are going to be working with a lot of full size sheet goods, I would budget some money to build and outfeed table/assembly table for your table saw. Do you already have a workbench or something that could be used as a workbench?

Have fun and happy hunting for your woodworking tools?

Cheers

Brian

[Gary Radice]

4 K$ You are are a lucky man. Congrats. You just won the lottery! The wife is a keeper, too.

Ditto the suggestion to look for a bandsaw rather than shaper. I'd also suggest a drill press.

As far as specific models for the others, consider buying used tools and fixing them up. You could probably pick up a terrific older Unisaw for around $400-700, a 14 inch Delta bandsaw for $200-300, and a 12" Parks planer for 400-500. If you really wanted a shaper you can get an old Delta or Powermatic for around $500 or less. The OWWM web site has lots of advice and help.

You'll save money, get a better tool, and learn more about how to maintain your investment.

But whatever you decide, be safe and have fun.

[John Michaels]

I have the Grizzly 0453 and love it. I too am planning on upgrading to a Byrd head. I'd ditch the shaper and get a jointer. I used a planer sled for a long time until recently I got a grizzly 6" jointer. Having the jointer saves a lot of time.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, a planer/jointer combo is a good choice, best optimization of space/capability.

A tablesaw would be a good choice, followed by a bandsaw and a drill press.

I have a shaper (no routers), however a shaper, plus a feeder and some tooling may take all of your budget. It's probably best to stay away from one for now.

Don't forget about clamps, chisels and planes, they add up fast.

Of course if I could start out new, I'd buy a Hammer, Felder or MiniMax combo from the start and save myself a lot of money:D

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Heidrick]

I did not see a dust collector on the list.

A used euro combo machine (Felder saw, shaper, planer, jointer, mortiser) would be my quest with a $4k starting budget and no existing tools. Be looking at auctions and on the felder yahoo group. Cash is king right now. There have been several in the last couple of months. You will still want a bandsaw and DC but the rest will be dream tools to use.

[Phil John]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your feedback - I really appreciate it.

I am doing some serious thinking re: changing the planer and shaper to the 10" or 12" jointer/planer combo and buying a router.

I have applied to join the Felder yahoo group to see if they have any combo machines for sale...

Dust collection is on the list, as is some more reading on drill presses and bandsaws.

Timber isn't included in the budget, so provided I deliver on the first table, I don't think I'll have too much resistance...

Thanks again!

Phil

[Barry Vabeach]

Phil, just my thoughts, but I mostly agree with the posters, no need for the shaper. I wouldn't add a bandsaw, I have a nice bandsaw now, but have built everything in your list without one. I jointer planer is a great idea in terms of space, and you give up some convenience, but get a 10 or 12 inch jointer in return. A few handplanes and a card scraper will save you a lot of sanding time and will be very handy in building the tables since your planer can't handle the finished table width. Are the kitchen cabinets going to be painted or stained with clear finish? For the tables and desk, you can finish without any real expense, using a wiping varnish ( flexner's finishing book will come in handy here about staining and finishing ). If the cabinets have a stain plus clear, a wiping varnish will take you forever (it builds very slowly) so you may need some spray equipment, and that could set you back a couple hundred or so.

[David Keller NC]

Phil - One additional thought. In Europe, many if not most craftsmen choose a bandsaw over a table saw - it's considered a "must have" tool, much as we consider a table saw to be a "must have". Provided you intend to either buy a jointer or use a jointing plane to dress your edges, you can do almost everything on a bandsaw that you can on a table saw, plus a few additional things like cutting curves and re-sawing wider boards.

A bandsaw is certainly slower than a table saw when it comes to ripping lumber, but unless you're planning on going into production, who cares? The only thing a bandsaw will not do well that a table saw will is cross-cutting smaller pieces - a table saw with a cross-cut sled will give you dang near perfect 90 degree crosscuts.

However, that's easy to accomplish with a (considerably) less expensive miter saw, or a hand-held circular saw and a fence. The advantage these two methods have is that the length of the board you're cross-cutting can be very long - something you can't do on a table saw.

Typically, an excellent bandsaw can be had for about $1000 less than an equivalent quality cabinet table saw, though you can get a contractor's saw for about the same money as a high-quality bandsaw. If I were to do it over again, I'd have bought the 14" delta bandsaw that I still use, and skipped the "upgrade" from the Ryobi contractor's table saw to the Delta Unisaw - and just used the bandsaw until I'd saved up enough for a high quality cabinet saw.

[Scot Ferraro]

Good advice here. I too would otp for a used combination machine, but $4k might not be enough to swing even a good used unit -- if you are patient, maybe. A bandsaw is essential in my book and you might consider a large BS and jointer/planer combination. As others have said, a circular saw and fence to cross-cut or a track saw (Festtol, DeWalt) would be a great way to go and it would not take up that much room. You need lots of clamps and misc. tools that can add up. Also, don't forget about some kind of a work surface that is flat and stable. If I was just starting out, a bench would be top on my list. I think that a drill-press would be the next big stationary tool if there was room in the budget after the BS and J/P.

Shopping for all the new tools is a lot of fun. Enjoy the process.

Scot

[Alex Leslie]

If I had it to do over again, I would get a 12" jointer/planer combo machine. Jet has one that looks good, but I have not used it. If you can find a top quality used euro machine that would be a good deal.

I have a tablesaw and use it very rarely since getting a Festool TS75 track saw (you could probably do with the smaller TS55), several guide rails and the parallel guide set. I break down sheet goods on the floor on a sheet of rigid foam insullation. No more wrestling heavy sheet goods on a table saw. A CT22 or CT33 for dust extraction will work great with the saw and sanders that you don't have listed.

I have several Festool sanders and there is virtually no airborn dust when used with a Festool dust extractor. Festool routers also use the dust extractor and rails for guided, low dust routing.

One warning - you might get addicted to Festool so your budget may get blown! :eek:

I would also go the route of a bandsaw in lieu of a tablesaw. You will have resaw capability if you get one with a 3/4" or wider blade capacity. I am looking at a Minimax MM16 - Italian -made, very nice features and 16" resaw capacity.

[Vic Damone]

That's a nice budget to start with. I would suggest you take your time in large tool acquisition, shopping for used bargains. You'll want more tools than what's on your list and buying used will stretch your budget and you might find some better quality tools.

You might want to rethink the planer purchase for now unless the bulk of your wood purchasing will be rough sawn stock or if you plan on doing lots of laminations. I purchased a planer and rarely used it. I live in an urban area were my suppliers stock is mostly S2S. After selling the planer I purchased an oscillating drum sander which gets a great deal of use. Which bring me to my next suggestion.

Your first purchase should be a 3M 7503 Half Facepiece Respirator and the 3M 2091 Particulate filters (pink). This is an extremely comfortable well sealing mask that won't fog your safety glasses. I hated wearing a respirator but this one works great and is so comfortable that you won't mind using it.

Your second purchase should be a dust collector. Check out the Fine Woodworking comparison for yourself. There are only two that get high marks. I purchased the JET DC1100 with a cartridge long before the comparison and was pleasantly surprised by its ability. Along with using a six inch primary hose or duct, there is a simple modification that will keep the cartridge much cleaner. With the current Rockler internet 20% off power tool sale you should be able to get a new one at a reasonable price.

I like the above suggestions of forgetting the shaper, using a router or two instead. Also the bandsaw suggestion and maybe a drillpress.

Stay healthy, never work tired, and keep your eye on the blade. Have fun shopping. I would surprise that lady with a spa day.

[george wilson]

You really need to also get a bandsaw,drill press,and jointer. Even if this means getting less expensive other machines,you will need them. For 1 thing,I'd hold off on the expensive cutterhead for the planer,and buy a bandsaw with it. You could even get by with one of the cheap 6" Lowe's or Home Depot type jointers till you can get better replacements.

A shaper isn't a much needed machine,considering your budget. The router and home made table will do.

You need to decide if any of your projects have curved lines. If so,get a bandsaw.

[Burt Waddell]

Phil,

There are always lots of opinions on projects like this so let me just add a couple of comments:

First you say that you will have half of a 2 car garage - that tells me that you may not have room for a lot of large stationary equipment.

Shaper - I would forget the shaper and purchase a good router table (Lee Valley - vertias). I would add a good 3 horse router (milwaukee) and a baby stock feeder (Delta Versa feeder). I use this combo in a small commerical shop and find that it works well.

You state that you plan to use primarily finished wood. That in my book eliminates the need for the jointer. Also I would go to a Smaller planer (Makita 2012nb).

I would also eliminate the table saw and go to one of the rail systems (Eurekazone is my choice). With the rail system you can do more work in less time and expend less energy doing it. Also the rail system will help to fill in for the jointer. Lay the rail on any board and cut a straight edge on it.

A lot of the guys are recommending a band saw. If you are thinking of using a bandsaw for cutting shapes, you will probably find that a jig saw will fill the bill(I prefer the Hilti but the bosch is the most popular). If you are thinking about resawing, there is no way around the bandsaw.


Burt

[george wilson]

What use could he possibly have for a stock feeder? This is a home shop,not a commercial shop. I've never even considered getting a stock feeder in 54 years of wood working. He's not going to be ripping hundreds of feet of wood making a few pieces of furniture. He could buy a bandsaw for that money.

A jointer is certainly needed in a shop. How is he going to find finished wood in every possible width? He could rip wood down on the table saw,but a jointer will give decent joints,and flatten warped boards on 1 side for the planer. Very often a ripped board from the table saw will come out curved from stress relief. It needs to be cut oversize,and jointed true. I suggest he buys less expensive machinery so that he can get the planer,jointer,table saw,drill press,bandsaw and router. A 2 bag dust collector would also be an inexpensive addition to his shop. He could plug the hose in as needed until he can afford a more elaborate dust collection system. Get the fine bags for it.

That 0691 table saw is almost $1300.00. I didn't check on shipping fees. He could get a contractor's saw that will be adequate,for 1 thing,and use the savings for other machines. How about the workbench materials? Is that coming out of the $4000.00 budget? How about hand tools? You've GOT to have clamps,even if you don't use hand tools much. You really need chisels,too,for mortises,and a bench grinder to grind their bevels,and stones. Also, AT LEAST a block plane,for making small adjustments. A dado blade set is pretty essential to make furniture. For several years I made do with a crappy old 12" Parks thickness planer,back in the 60's,and felt lucky to have it at all. This was WAY before cheap imports came to be. I had a very worn 6" Boice Crane jointer,ex Army,whose tables had been sanded roughly with an auto body grinder. I made it work,but today,the options are light years better.

I found myself using my Delta 14" bandsaw much more than my table saw because of the smaller kerf,and less mess thrown into the air. Never had a dust collector,nor did any other small user I knew of back then. Today,we consider them essential for health.

I am thinking he needs to scale way back on the size of the machines to get other essentials,or he isn't going to be able to do much at all for $4000.00. A lunchbox planer would free up a lot of money for other needs. For the occasional wider board,a local cabinet shop can run wide stuff for you.

[Rod Sheridan]

George, you asked what possible use he could have for a stock feeder at home?

Maybe he's like me and finds that the stock feeder is the ultimate finger guard:D

Regards, Rod.

[george wilson]

Woodworkers must pay attention to their hands and learn discretion as to handle dangerous processes,or they will sooner or later get themselves injured with any of the machines they might be using.

I would never want to take the trouble to set up and align a stock feeder just to run a board or 2 through the saw.

If you are afraid of the machines,best find another kind of work. If you respect them,that is o.k..

[Burt Waddell]

What use could he possibly have for a stock feeder? This is a home shop,not a commercial shop. I've never even considered getting a stock feeder in 54 years of wood working. He's not going to be ripping hundreds of feet of wood making a few pieces of furniture. He could buy a bandsaw for that money.

If you recall, I didn't even suggest that he get the table saw. I've had the small stockfeeders on router tables for about 15 years and in my way of seeing it they are worth their weight in gold. It takes less than 30 seconds to set one to the thickness. They hold the board down and against the fence as well as pushing it thru. To me at a price of about $300 they are a good investment for those doing a kitchen or making molding - both of which he has in his list.

A jointer is certainly needed in a shop. How is he going to find finished wood in every possible width? He could rip wood down on the table saw,but a jointer will give decent joints,and flatten warped boards on 1 side for the planer. Very often a ripped board from the table saw will come out curved from stress relief. It needs to be cut oversize,and jointed true. I suggest he buys less expensive machinery so that he can get the planer,jointer,table saw,drill press,bandsaw and router. A 2 bag dust collector would also be an inexpensive addition to his shop. He could plug the hose in as needed until he can afford a more elaborate dust collection system. Get the fine bags for it.

I'll simply say this about the jointer. I sold mine about 10 years ago and haven't missed it. A combo of the rail system and the planer have served me well.

That 0691 table saw is almost $1300.00. I didn't check on shipping fees. He could get a contractor's saw that will be adequate,for 1 thing,and use the savings for other machines. How about the workbench materials? Is that coming out of the $4000.00 budget? How about hand tools? You've GOT to have clamps,even if you don't use hand tools much. You really need chisels,too,for mortises,and a bench grinder to grind their bevels,and stones. Also, AT LEAST a block plane,for making small adjustments. A dado blade set is pretty essential to make furniture. For several years I made do with a crappy old 12" Parks thickness planer,back in the 60's,and felt lucky to have it at all. This was WAY before cheap imports came to be. I had a very worn 6" Boice Crane jointer,ex Army,whose tables had been sanded roughly with an auto body grinder. I made it work,but today,the options are light years better.

I found myself using my Delta 14" bandsaw much more than my table saw because of the smaller kerf,and less mess thrown into the air. Never had a dust collector,nor did any other small user I knew of back then. Today,we consider them essential for health.

We all have our style of working. The tools we want will be determined by the style. I like a bandsaw, but I would never consider using one as the primary cutter in my shop. -- Just personal preference.

I am thinking he needs to scale way back on the size of the machines to get other essentials,or he isn't going to be able to do much at all for $4000.00. A lunchbox planer would free up a lot of money for other needs. For the occasional wider board,a local cabinet shop can run wide stuff for you.

And on that last paragraph, all I have to say is +1.

Burt

[george wilson]

$300.00 is a good chunk out of what he has to spend. He hasn't even considered the other tools like hand tools,etc.,some of which I mentioned. At this stage,he doesn't need the luxury of a power feeder. He's not opening a commercial shop.

I'm sure you will defend your opinion,but the fact is,the feeder is not necessary. Your non use of a jointer is "different",too. Are you making things out of sheet goods?

[Burt Waddell]

$300.00 is a good chunk out of what he has to spend. He hasn't even considered the other tools like hand tools,etc.,some of which I mentioned. At this stage,he doesn't need the luxury of a power feeder. He's not opening a commercial shop.

I'm sure you will defend your opinion,but the fact is,the feeder is not necessary. Your non use of a jointer is "different",too. Are you making things out of sheet goods?

George,

This is one of those occasions where we are best to agree to disagree.

As for the wood I use, Most of it is hardwood.

Burt

[george wilson]

Handled like a gentleman.

[Eric DeSilva]

There is some good advice here, the only thing I'd add to the noise is to say that if you have some patience, you could save a lot on craigslist or shopping used. In this particular economic climate, I hate to say it, but there are a lot of small shops shutting down and selling off some very good equipment.

Even before the economic downturn, I managed to pick up a Unisaw w/50" bies fence, 8" grizz jointer and 20" grizz planer for under $1500. If you had similar luck, that would leave you enough to buy a decent cyclone dust collector and still have some change in your pockets for routers, chisels, drills, and the like. Heck, just yesterday there was an ad on CL for a PM 66 TS, PM 6" jointer, and PM 20" planer--take it all for $3100. If you have some experienced woodworkers around who could kick some tires on some hardware for you, it might be worth your time.

[Rick Moyer]

You have to determine how much you will do and how you will do it, and how "nice" the tools you want vs. the costs of everything. Here are some of the tools I have and their approximate costs:
Table saw $150 (older Craftsman contractor)
Router table $200 (Benchdog tabletop)
Router $300 (Milwaukee, in router table)
router combo $200 ( Bosch 1617 kit)
Bandsaw $400 (Grizzly 0555)
Planer $400 (DeWalt 735 bought slightly used)
Jointer $600 ( Grizzly 0586)
Drill Press $150 ( can't say for sure, may be less, Dad's)

This is $2400, leaving a lot of money for the other stuff you can use. I have some other things but you get the idea. Do I want a better table saw, YES, but this one has done fine. All the other items have been fine for me as a hobbiest. Now if I had more cash, I would upgrade some of them, but many will last me for what I do. You have to determine this for yourself.

[Prashun Patel]

That saw looks like a good bang for the buck.

If it were me, I'd forgo the shaper and the 15" planer.

I'd get a Dewalt 735 lunchbox planer and a Ridgid 6" jointer. HD is having a sale right now that'd give you both of those for around $500.

Once I tried a real jointer, I appreciated the time it saved me.

I'd also get a bandsaw. The Griz 513 is a good buy @ $800. So is the G0555 @ $400 IMHO - even though it's only 14".

I'd definitely get a dust collector. The Delta 50-760 is a good buy if you don't think you need a cyclone. Don't forget to budget $100 for some flex pipe and fittings. You can use Sch20 sewer pipe for the long runs and just use the flex pipe for drops.

For the smaller tools, here's what I find invaluable (in order):


Makita 18v LiIon drill/driver.
Router with a plunge/fixed base, bushings, and a good bit set.
Dust Deputy and a shop vac.

On yr next anniversary, when wifey gives the green light on another $1000, there's a whole nuther world of handplanes, chisels, and sharpening equipment that we can put that easily to use on...

[Mike Cruz]

First let me say, You Lucky Dog! Congrats on your future new shop.

Second, I don't know your location, or your budget, but there is a shop in MD (actually in Frederick) that is selling their entire shop for $10,000. I mean an ENTIRE shop. You can COMPLETELY outfit your shop, and then some. Sell off what you don't want or need, to help bring the price down.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/1362665151.html

[Paul Johnstone]

Hi

My shopping list:

Grizzly G0691 10” table saw
Mobile base and extension kit for above

Grizzly G0453 15” planer

H7768 15” Shelix Cutterhead for above planer

Grizzly G1026 shaper
Mobile base for above

I am looking for feedback.

).


My suggestion:
Get a jointer. Cut out the shelix cutter head if you have to.
I'd also get a cyclone dust collector before a shaper.
If you have to, make a router table instead of a shaper to save money.
Also, you can stretch the budget with a hybrid/contractor saw instead of a cab saw.

For $4000, you could get a nice hybrid saw, jointer, planer (might have to settle for lunchbox), drum sander, router, clamps, and probably have money left over.

A shaper is a step up from a router table, but I think a jointer and dust collection is more important.

Good luck.

[george wilson]

Several,incuding me,have advised you to get less expensive models of machines,such as a contractor's saw,lunchbox planer,etc.. If you get the expensive table saw you really want,you will have a nice saw to look at,but will not be able to do much work. I had to deal with this when I became toolmaker in Williamsburg,and was given a rather small budget with which to set up both a woodworking and machine shop,with some blacksmithing ability,too.

Later on,I was able to replace some things with better examples.

[Jerome Hanby]

If you can squeeze you tool budget down a bit, I'd add shed to the top of your project list, move the mower/etc out, and takeover the whole garage!

[Mike Cruz]

Seriously, if you don't need everything NOW, then take your time and search CL. Not just today, tomorrow, and next weekend. But everyday. 2 - 3 times a day. Anywhere within 1 1/2 hours of your house. This is how it has paid off for me so far:

Ridgid 14" Band Saw..............................$150
Jet Air Filtration....................................$150
Grizzly 2HP Dust Collector.......................$125
Unisaw............................................ .....$300
(Freebees that went with Unisaw)
6"Delta Jointer
Craftsman 15" Drill Press
1 1/2 HP portable Dust Collector
Freud Dado blades
(Ok, deal of a century, but they are out there)
Woodtek 15" Planer................................$450 (Found a 20" Grizzly later for same price)
(Freebee that went with the Planer)
Ryobi Spindle Sander
1.5 HP Motor (Ebay, for Band Saw upgrade)..$50 (includes shipping)



My point is. On a limited budget, if you are patient, and on top of things, the deals and bargains are out there. 4-5 years ago, I had the extra $ to buy new equipment and stock my shop how I wanted...but my shop wasn't finished being built. The electricity wasn't run, the floor wasn't in, the insulation wasn't up. Time went by. Things change. I was planning on dropping $10,000 for NEW equipment. I didn't have that luxury a few months ago when I finally got around to outfitting the shop with tools. Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled with what I have. Just know that if $4000 is your budget, go used, have patience, wait for the offers you can't refuse.

But also, don't just spend all you money on equipment. Factor in all the other stuff that you will need: Ducts/hose for DC. Electricity run in your shop (all 110 or 220, too?). 220? A lot of machines come pre-wired for 110, so you will need to swap them out with 220 plugs. Sure these things aren't much on their own, but $10-15 here, $20-30 there...it all adds up. You can burn through $500 on shop stuff that you can't even THINK of right now. I don't even want to imagine what all those little bills have added up to...I need a beer. :(

[Chris Tsutsui]

Oh man, If I was in your shoes I would be all over craigslist.

I would have leaped in the air in joy if I got a "like-new" Laguna X31 combo machine that had a planer, jointer, table saw with sliding table and shaper/mortiser.

One was selling for just $1500 and it was like a 2003 model. It was only listed for a couple days until somebody bought it. Only the table saw and planer was used, the rest of the tools had parts still sealed and packaged.

I wanted it bad, but the wife said NO because I don't need it. :)

Also, for a $4k budget I would scale down your shop machines and be more frugal than most would think.

You can start out with a smaller table saw + circular saw for sheet goods. I would save the cabinet saw as a future upgrade unless you find a steal of a deal on CL. :)

Try to look for a used 6" jointer, 13" box planer, 14" band saw. I found my delta delux 6" jointer on CL for $50 and it works like a champ and the blades were still sharp.

You can get by with a cheap ridgid shop vac for a long time without needing a DC. You can even get away with using a bosch jig saw instead of a band saw for some tasks. (cept resawing of course)

I'd get parallel cabinet clamps, random orbit sander, a 10" or 12" SCMS, and get a decent router that can go into a bench table. I wouldn't start out with a shaper, nor would i start out with festool stuff.

If you squeeze every ounce out of your budget you will have a versatile shop.

If you just get a really good table saw, planer, and shaper, you will find your limitations very fast. Then where will that extra money be to buy bits, blades, and accessories that add up.

If you've got $4k to spend, make your budget $3500, then that extra $500 will be for the add-ons and accessories that always come up once you start using the machine. heh

[Nathan Callender]

Hi Phil - welcome. I was in your shoes about 6 months ago (well not the $4K part, but just starting out). I had done some woodworking before and had a few handheld tools, but no stationary ones, and I decided that I wanted a new kitchen and that it couldn't be that 'difficult' to build. :-)

Let me say that you can do a heck of a lot with a contractor table saw and portable planer (and a router, circular saw, jig saw, and drill). I'd challenge you to buy decent quality tools one at a time and spend the time to learn how to use them. Buy a few essential tools and actually do some projects for your house. That way you can learn what you like, don't like and what works for your space before getting a garage full stuff that doesn't fit you.

On the jointer/planer vs planer and shaper question, I'd personally love to have the jointer/planer combo. I have a lunchbox planer and my only gripe is that it is LOUD. (I don't have a jointer yet.) Noise level makes a difference.

As far as a shaper, yes, I'd love to have the grizzly 1.5hp shaper (for the noise issue and also versatility and efficiency of cutters, etc), but I would recommend getting a medium sized router and build an inexpensive table first. This will let you get a feel for what you want, and you will be able to use the router for handheld work after you upgrade to whatever solution you want later on.

Also, don't forget all the little things. Clamps. Hand saws (yeah, you'll want that back saw or japanese saw when the time comes). A couple planes. Chisels. Sharpening stones. Drill bits (forsner, plug cutters, etc....). Measuring tools. Straight edge. Saw blades. Dado set. Square (that's really square)

The order in which you aquire tools and how you go about it is a personal thing you have to decide for yourself, just don't rush the process.

Good luck on your projects!

[Chris Barnett]

Last year and the year before, had the same opportunity as you. Did not buy a shaper but several routers instead, one for a table. Did go with a large band saw, then added a large jointer and larger planer; in retrospect, should have opted for the combo jointer/planer due to space limitations and plenty of time. Would suggest the combo, routers and table, and bar clamps, many bar clamps, good bar clamps. And a large work/assembly table.

When you get that set up, take the new wife to a woodcraft museum or fair to see the bowl and vase exhibits :D, and urge her to learn that skill; while you tinker with the flatwork, she can make what goes on top. Buy her a lathe for the anniversary.

[Phil John]

Hi everyone,

I apologize for not replying sooner - I found out that my Grandfather passed away this weekend. He was fixing the roof on their gazebo, slipped on the ladder and his head hit the concrete pavement below.

I appreciate all the feedback everyone has posted and I am going to read through it all again tonight.

Best regards,

Phil

[Mike Cruz]

OMG, so sorry to hear about your Grandfather. What terrible news. And what a terrible way to lose someone. My best wishes to you and your family.

[Mike Heidrick]

:eek::eek::eek:

Sorry for your loss.