Sawing veneer by hand

[Mark Stutz]

I was watching The Woodwright's Shop this evening...And his guests were from Williamsburg. Two episodes about veneering, specificaly the recreation of the Seaton Tool Chest. Absolutely fascinating and enlightening to watch them work...stringing, applying cross banding, resawing...and they used an ellipse engine made by George Wilson...a beautiful tool!

The saw they used to cut the veneer was also made by George. It looked very much like any other hand saw, though didn't taper as much in height toward the toe. I was always of the impression that veneer was cut with a narrow frame type saw during that time period...at least that is what is I remember seeing pictured whenever I've seen a print or drawing.

Is this a special "veneer saw" or simply using a more "modern" saw as a matter of preference in a situation where period authenticity is not really nesessary?

It was very enlightening to watch the use of a toothing plane to smooth highly figured wood as well as prepare the glue surface. I'm going to have to try to get one of these! I have done a little hammer venering but only with modern commercial veneer. I'm going to have to try this!

[Robert Rozaieski]

I think they would have simply used what they had, be it a framed saw or a standard plate style hand saw. I think the saw Marcus used was more because he was sawing a very small piece of veneer for something like a drawer front. If I remember the episode correctly, it was just an 8 or 9 point rip saw. I think a framed veneer saw would be more for sawing the veneer green from the log or for very large pieces of veneer that would be too big for a smaller saw like the one Marcus was using. Something like the veneer for a full table top for a dressing table maybe where the veneer might be 20" wide. Marcus's 8 point rip saw probably wouldn't be as efficient for sawing such a large veneer. For smaller pieces, as he demonstrated, it works just fine, maybe even better than a framed saw. I've tried resawing small boards like the one Marcus was demonstrating with using a framed type saw and prefer the standard rip saw myself. I feel like I can control it better than the framed saw.

[Mark Stutz]

Bob, that makes a lot of sense. In retrospect, the prints I remember were two man frame saws and they were sawing very wide pieces of veneer.

[george wilson]

We had a large frame veneer saw in Williamsburg. If you saw our movie"The Musical Instrument Maker",still sold by Col.Williamsburg,we used the antique in making veneer for the spinet harpsichord in the film. It had about 4 teeth per inch,and was about 4" wide,but was about .030" thick,strained tight in its frame.

Marcus was using a special saw I made for him to saw harpsichord keys apart. They were drawn on a wide plank of bass or limewood,and the ends of the sharps are mortised through. Then,the keys were sawn apart. He wanted a very small kerf saw for the keys. It kept the gap between keys from getting too large.

The saw is only .030" thick. Our regular saws were .042" thick,like the unused 18th.C. saws in the Seaton chest. I guess Marcus likes to also saw small pieces of veneer with it.

The antique veneer saw was more authentic,and can be seen being used in Diderot.

It could be that the museum didn't want the antique saw taken away,out of state for the show. Or,the saw he did use was just handier for small work.

The .030" saw was a special saw,as I said,and was pretty flexible. You have to be good with a saw to get results like that. I don't encourage anyone to make their saws that thin.

[Mark Stutz]

Thanks, George. I was hoping you would chime in:D

[David Gendron]

George, Would you have picture of the saw in question?
Thank you!

[george wilson]

Which saw,David? I have no picture of the antique frame saw for veneer. The saw I made for Marcus is quite a standard 18th.C. pattern rip saw. I posted pictures of saws months ago in this Neander section. Pam posted a shot of a whole long workbench of saws months ago,too,which we had made.

The antique was about 14" wide,and about a 3' long blade. Blade was about 4" wide and about .030" thick,about 4 teeth per inch. The sides of the saw frame were about 2" square,mortised into the end pieces,which were about 2" X 3". The ends of the blade were enclosed in thick sheet iron plates riveted to the blade. The blade was tightened by a screw about 3/4" diameter,with rams horn nuts for tightening. It was definitely a 2 man saw. Each man had to watch his side of the line.

You can buy the Musical Instrument Maker film from Colonial Williamsburg for $19.95,and see it in action. The tape used to cost $75.00 when they started selling tapes. My value has gone down!!! It was the very last craft film that may ever be made,it looks like.

[David Gendron]

Thank you George for the details of the saw!

[Mark Maleski]

I watched this episode recently, as it is one of the ones available for streaming from Roy Underhill's website. I did a search on the elipse-drawing tool made by George Wilson, and happened on this year-old thread. Not knowing the proper name of this tool (the one for elipses), it's the only reference I've found for it. George, do you have any details on this tool - like its proper name? I didn't see it in any of the Neanderthal Haven stickies.

[george wilson]

I had an 8"X10" photo of it,and have lost it somewhere in my piles of papers. I need to get another photo made,but keep forgetting.

[Charles Murray Ohio]

Can anyone find the two posts that George refered to.

[Andrew Gibson]

How bout a Link to the episode? I went to the PBS website but could not locate the episode.

[Caspar Hauser]

Try this;

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2800/2810.html

[Jim Koepke]

This may be one:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1043467

It was found by searching ellipsograph.

That is the name on mine that was bought in a drafting supply store almost 30 years ago.

jtk

[Mark Maleski]

Try this;

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2800/2810.html

Casper, the ellipsograph that I was asking about was actully shown in the earlier episode ("Holly Wood Spectaculars," which is linked to at the right hand side of the page that you linked to). The link you have above takes you to the other episode where Marcus Hansen used a saw made by George Wilson. They're 2 episodes in a series, I recommend them both.

Jim, thank you for the link - that answers my question. I would've searched for "ellipsograph" too if I had known what it was named! Drafting supply store, you say...

[Jim Koepke]

I could not find other information on this, but I was able to capture a shot from the video:

160885

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Drafting supply store, you say...

For a few years I did drafting for a living.

jtk

[george wilson]

That is indeed the ellipsograph we made for the cabinet maker's shop. I had just gotten a new "journeyman",an excellent silversmith,but with minimal experience with the metal lathe. He did not know how to use a dial indicator,for example. However,in silver smithing he was already very skilled. I used this device as a training tool to introduce him to lathe use. I taught him how to MAKE knurls,and how to use them. I mean the old fashioned concave style knurls used long ago for things like microscope adjustment wheels. These can be made by running the blank knurl wheel against a rotating tap(for cutting threads) in the lathe. I also taught him to do the simple operations on the milling machine required to make the brass blocks and sliding pieces for the device.

The wood was mahogany. We also made a swivel knife attachment to go in the end of the rod,so that the ellipses could be cut out of paper easily to make templates if wanted.

Must run,have an appointment.

[Dave Anderson NH]

At one of the January conferences at Williamsburg Marcus and Ed used a frame saw with one of them on each end to carefully saw a piece of veneer that was over a foot wide. If I remember correctly (not always a sure thing) they were making the piece about 1/8" rough thickness and working to carefully scribed and marked lines on all 4 edges of the board.