Veritas or LN Low Angle Jack

[Prashun Patel]

I've heard many people recommend these planes as a versatile from initial smoothing to shooting.

I have a poor #4 right now. Will a LA jack serve as a good general purpose plane that can do all the stuff in a say #5-6 to a #4 range? Or do I really need to get a better #4 and a good #5?

Also, I notice the veritas version comes allows a 38deg bevel option. Is that worth it?

[jim hedgpeth]

I have the veritas bevel up jack and smoother. I have never used the LN, but am sure its a great plane.

I went with Veritas because of the blades being interchangeable between smoother, jack, and jointer, though I dont have the jointer,:rolleyes:Yet.

As far as what it will "serve" as, 5-6 yes, 4 not really, but with the right micro bevel it will leave a glass smooth finish on larger pieces. The jack is kinda big to use as a smoother all the time. I use mine for jointing some, but it's kinda small for service as a jointer on anything very big. IIRC generally it can be used as a jointer for boards up to 2x the plane length, but I am fairly new to the whole Neander side of things, so someone may correct me on this. Bevel angle plays a BIG part in the results you get for a particular task. On that note, the Veritas comes with a 25* bevel the is great for shooting end grain, and allows a quick micro bevel to change the angle up to whatever you need with out regrinding the blade compleatly. That is why I got a 25* for my spare, in my opinion it's a bit more versital.

I don't know what good (highly volitile comment) planes you have already, but either of these jacks will serve you well. Add a good block plane, and you will be sliding down the slippery slope before you know it. I have and love a Stanley 60 1/2 block. Good plane for the money, and when I get a LN or LV block I can use this one on questionable jobs where I may nick a blade(or worse).

Jim

P.S.

You dont mention what brand of planes or blades you have, but if you order one of these, be warned, these are serious-thick blades:D. Unless you have seen one in person, comparing the specs (Stanley OEM vs. LV-LN) just don't do them justice.

[Richard Magbanua]

Well, It can be a "yes" to any of those questions. It depends on your goals, preference and $$$.
I think it's safe to say that either the Lee Valley or the LN would be fine in any of those capacities. Speaking of the LA jack, Chris Schwarz talks about the new Stanley premium LA jack in today's blog post and he points out that they have a few significant problems to correct to be useable for fine woodworking. I have the Lie-Nielsen LA jack with an extra blade and I use it for shooting (25 deg blade) and for flattening and initial smoothing (35 deg blade which I need to put a 40 deg micro bevel on). It works fine and Changing the blade and adjusting is not a big deal. For further smoothing I have a no 4 with a Hock blade dialed-in and set. I flattened a 20"x30" board with it just fine.
http://richardmagbanua.blogspot.com/2009/08/flattening-by-hand.html

Do you need a better no 4 and a good no 5? Sure, who doesn't? You can find plenty of no 4's and 5's in the antique stores. Fix 'em up and try them. If you don't know how, you're gonna have to anyways. I got a Hock blade for mine and it seems to work fine for me. That way you don't have to readjust the planes as much or change the blades at all. One thing I couldn't get my no 5 to do well was trim end grain on the shooting board. The LN la jack is great for this. That's probably the main reason I got it.

The higher deg blade is good to have to use for smoothing that way you can keep the other at 25 or so for shooting. Changing blades is pretty straightforward and adjusting the mouth is very easy. Many opt to get the Veritas planes so you can hone each blade to a different angle and swap them out if you need to. Economical I 'spose.

I guess the way I see it is this. Eventually, if this works out for you, you'll have all of the above on your shelf (plus some block planes, a shoulder plane, router plane, spokeshaves, and an edge plane :rolleyes: just for starters!!!)). Right now, the la Jack is the only Lie-Nielsen plane I have, so I try to use it as much as I can (because it makes me happy :D ), thus the extra blade. If you just want a reason to get an LN or LV, just get one. You'll be happy you did.

Someone here at the Creek made a very truthful comment recently about planes but I don't know who it was. It went something like... the plane I prefer to use is the one that has a sharp blade in it. Very true. That's regardless of what brand it is or how much it cost.

[Pohgunn Ooi]

G'day Shawn,

Veritas has the Low Angle Smoother & Bevel Up Smoother, essentially both are bevel up planes with different blade sizes.

The Veritas Low Angle Smoother has square and grounded sides that will allow usage on the shooting board. Their Bevel Up Smoother will not allow this. Not sure if this versatility is important to you.

And the blade for the Low Angle Jack is not interchangeable with the Low Angle Smoother. However, the Low Angle Jack will work on the shooting board.

If blade interchangeability is important, the "Bevel Up" smoother should be considered if you plan to get the Low Angle Jack in the future.

Cheers

GUNN

[Joel Goodman]

I have the LN low angle jack and it is a great plane. The LV is a bit longer and wider -- a 5 1/2 size -- while the LN is 5 sized. For the higher angle irons for smoothing just add a microbevel to get the angle you wish. If you want a higher angle bevel and don't want to microbevel LN will make you one without an extra charge. They are both great planes that have a lot of uses -- will you want other planes in the future? -- yes! I would buy two irons with either of the low angle jacks -- and keep one at 25 - 27 degrees and the other at 38 - 40 degrees (microbevel); that way you have a low angle plane and a york pitch plane. If I could have only three planes I would get a low angle jack, a #7 jointer, and a block plane -- in that order.

[Sam Takeuchi]

If you can somehow tune that #4, probably LV low angle Jack (5-1/2 size) would be a good compliment to that. Unless your #4 is seriously flawed at manufacturing process or cracked, you should be able to bring it to relatively decent usability (unless it's one of those stamped steel frog planes or some such).

Either way, if you decide to get a low angle jack from LV or LN, I don't think you'll regret it.

[Prashun Patel]

I think I just need a better blade on my #4.

[Richard Magbanua]

Sounds like that would be a good start. Look at Hock, LN or LV. They all have good replacement blades.
How are you with the whole sharpening thing? Fettling a plane and properly sharpening a blade are more important, new blade or not.

[Joel Goodman]

Whether you should put money and effort into your #4 depends on what it is. I had Stanley "made in England" #4 for years that I bought new and it was a misery and made me hate hand planes. I purchased the LN low angle jack and it was a revelation. Since then I've gotten several older Stanley's (type 15 ) and love them. But IMHO some of the newish planes are really not worth the effort.

[Danny Thompson]

Seconding Joel's comments.

Get either of these planes and you will have a better frame of reference on what to do with your #4. I don't see any downside from buying either of them, assuming you can afford them.

They are GREAT planes, possibly the most useful planes you will ever own.

I own the LV for the interchangeability reason described above, but the LN is a great one, too.

[David Keller NC]

I've heard many people recommend these planes as a versatile from initial smoothing to shooting.

I have a poor #4 right now. Will a LA jack serve as a good general purpose plane that can do all the stuff in a say #5-6 to a #4 range? Or do I really need to get a better #4 and a good #5?

Also, I notice the veritas version comes allows a 38deg bevel option. Is that worth it?

From the aspect of the finished wood surface, yes, a jack plane will leave just as smooth a surface as a smoother-sized plane, depending on how well you sharpen the iron, close down the mouth, how thick a shaving you take, and a host of other "it depends" questions.

BUT - a jack is not a smoother. One of the reasons for the short length of a smoother is to follow any sublte bumps and hollows in the board so you get to a full-length shaving more quickly. If the board's absolutely flat, then there will be no difference whether you put the final finish on with a jointer, fore, jack, or smoother. However, if you've prepped the wood with a fore plane and a jointer then allowed it to set around for a few days, or you're planing the finished assembly to remove little dings and nicks, the short sole length of the smoother makes this process a lot less work.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks, all. That explanation, David, was clear and concise. Thanks, I needed that.

[Prashun Patel]

Pohgunn-
Thanks for that tip.

I looked again at the BU smoother and am now thinking seriously in investing in the LV 'trilogy':

BU Smoother
LA Jack
BU Jointer

The blades are interchangeable and these BU planes seem to work best when you have blades honed at varying degrees. My latest thinking is these 3 planes with 3 different blade angles should get me through 95% of my work...

[John Keeton]

Pohgunn-
Thanks for that tip.

I looked again at the BU smoother and am now thinking seriously in investing in the LV 'trilogy':

BU Smoother
LA Jack
BU Jointer

The blades are interchangeable and these BU planes seem to work best when you have blades honed at varying degrees. My latest thinking is these 3 planes with 3 different blade angles should get me through 95% of my work...Exactly!!! Throw in the toothed blade, and make that 98%! If you want to avoid changing blades all the time, get an extra 38* blade.

I have the 38* in the jointer, 25* in the jack, and the 38* in the smoother with the 50* as backup for difficult grain. I am sure others use different methods. Keep in mind that I do not do "rough to ready" with handplanes, and really use them for finish work only. That may change as the slope gets steeper!:D

[Russ Massery]

+1 on John's reply. I don't have a BU jointer yet. But the smoother and the jack are excellent to work with.

[Prashun Patel]

Update: I pulled the trigger on the Veritas BU Smoother.
Can't wait for it to arrive. Will have to hide the next credit card statement from my wife.....

[Jim Koepke]

Update: I pulled the trigger on the Veritas BU Smoother.
Can't wait for it to arrive. Will have to hide the next credit card statement from my wife.....

It is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission...


Not mine, just repeating,

jim

[Prashun Patel]

Jim, lest you think I don't think I'm a man after your own heart, I also pulled the trigger on a used Sargent 17" fore plane that's gonna need a little TLC to get in shape. My reading around here led me to concludethat the fine adjustments and precision that the spendier/newer planes give you out of the box are more important at the finish end of the spectrum rather than the rougher end.

Wonder if I'll draw fire for that comment....

[John Keeton]

Will have to hide the next credit card statement from my wife.....One possible defense often used by some is to blame Jim Koepke. But, given this is a purchase of a newly made toy, that may not fly. I guess I could help, and take a little of the blame on this one, but I do not feel, in fairness, that I should bear all of it as others have chimed in here, as well.:D

[Chris Friesen]

My reading around here led me to concludethat the fine adjustments and precision that the spendier/newer planes give you out of the box are more important at the finish end of the spectrum rather than the rougher end.

There's probably something to that. Although I'd suggest that it might be worth getting a spendy jointer plane as well so you don't have to worry about a non-flat sole.