Radial arm saw or compound sliding miter saw?

[Dustin Lorenz]

I was contimplating buying either a ten or twelve inch sliding compound miter saw or a radial arm saw. I had the option of using both these while in High School it was pretty convient. I just found a craftsmen radial arm saw on CL and it is in brand new condition. The guy is only asking 150.00. Now my question is should I go ahead and get it save up for a little bit again and then look for the miter saw, or save my money and keep looking for the miter saw. What would you guys do? I do a lot of cutting of full length construction lumber, my main building projects are still outdoor furniture. Picnic tables, benches, tables, swings, small gazebos, garden furniture are among the most popular so I would be making use of either saw. Can't remember but can you end up with the same compound style cuts from a radial arm saw? below is a picture from the ad.
http://images.craigslist.org/3p03o53l05Of5R95S49912446651bd12a1926.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3n33k83o35Q05P55Rb9915a86f4aeebad1991.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3k13pe3o15Oe5R35Sd991441a01924a851697.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3nc3p63oa5O55R95S9991f35a6c06565d197d.jpg

[Bill White]

You will be pounded by those who say that the RAS is not a viable tool today. I'm here to tell ya that my 1978 C'man RAS is, and will continue to be, a part of my shop. For that reason, I have a std. compound miter saw (10") to compliment the RAS.
Tuning up a RAS can be a daunting task. Take your time to do it correctly and you will enjoy the benefits a RAS can add to your shop.
Bill

[Dustin Lorenz]

Thanks Bill, Question for you I was just trying to find the specs on it because I was curious what the thickest piece of material you can cut is? I remember the motor on the right side and was curious what it restricted the saw to. I have to cut quite a few 4x4 beams for some of the swings/gazebos I build and was hoping it would clear and cut in one pass.

[Don Jarvie]

One of the benefits of the RAS is you can put a dado blade on it instead of using your table saw. The miter saw can't do that so +1 for the RAS.

It seems like having the dado capacity would be helpful.

I'm not entirely familar with the ins and outs of the C-man RAS but the newer models have 2 to 3 hp motors on them which should cut most anything. I'm not sure of how big of wood (height) you can cut.

Only drawback I heard on the C-man has been they have alignment issues and need to be set up often as compared to a Delta or Dewalt.

Put me down for the RAS

Don

[David Winer]

One of the benefits of the RAS is you can put a dado blade on it instead of using your table saw. The miter saw can't do that so +1 for the RAS.

It seems like having the dado capacity would be helpful.

...

Don
Not only can you use a dado blade, you can attach other tools. These are not as good to use as special purpose machines, but it is possible to sand, drill, and plane effectively with a radial arm saw.

But the main difference is that you can use a radial arm saw to perform ripping operations. I know, I know, not advisable, but it can be done safely and well with proper techniques. Years before acquiring a table saw I used the radial arm saw to rip a zillion of feet of wood (maybe two zillion).

[Brent Leonard]

I agree on the "add attachments" comment.

One of my earliest woodworking projects as a kid (4H), my instructor had a RAS with a router attachment. Cutting v grooves, cross grain, in oak worked beautifully and quickly.

IMO, if your shop has the room for it to be stationary, I'd go with a RAS. If you see yourself needing more mobility with the saw, and don't see the tool as ever being more than a "chop" saw that can cut angles and bevels, go with the miter saw.

I really like the, RAS for the shop AND a basic mitersaw (for mobility) idea.

[Steve Clardy]

Miter saws can be moved more easily.

I have both. Radial saw stays put. Mine is a tad newer than yours. I gave up on keeping it adjusted for accurate cuts.

It will not cut a 4x4 in one cut. You have to turn it over.

I'd rather give up the radial arm saw than the scms.

[Jeff Bratt]

I've got this saw (http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Ejeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/Shop.html#Radial_Arm_Saw) - or one very much like it. The pictured saw looks to be in very good condition, and it has the upgraded blade guard installed. I also like the versatility of the RAS. It can perform all the compound miter cuts that a SCMS can, and can cross cut wider stock. However, an SCMS with a 12" blade is needed (correction:) for bevel cuts in 4x stock.


I have to cut quite a few 4x4 beams for some of the swings/gazebos I build and was hoping it would clear and cut in one pass.

For a through cut, the clearance under the motor housing is 3", so this will not crosscut 4x material in one pass.


I'm not entirely familar with the ins and outs of the C-man RAS but the newer models have 2 to 3 hp motors on them

Sears is one of the leading purveyors of wildly inflated horsepower claims (http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Ejeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/HP/Horsepower.html). The motors on these saws - older and newer - are 1 HP.

[Dustin Lorenz]

Seeing as it won't make it through a 4x4 I'll have to pass. I cut to many thick pieces (3"+) to have to be flipping pieces over. I have the room to mount it permanently too, oh well.

[Robert Reece]

However, an SCMS with a 12" blade is needed to cut 4x stock in one chop.

This is not true, at least for my Makita LS1013. It has a 10" blade and will do 3.5" stock in one shot.

[David Winer]

This is not true, at least for my Makita LS1013. It has a 10" blade and will do 3.5" stock in one shot.
I just measured the distance from table to motor on my Craftsman 12 inch radial arm saw (with 12 inch blade) and it should easily cut through 4 inches in one pass.

[Steve Clardy]

OP is looking at a 10" RAS though.

[Bob Aquino]

Dustin
The consensus over on the owwm.org forum is that the older Dewalts with cast iron arms (made by Dewalt and later AMF, but not so much Black and Decker) and the similar vintage Delta's (turret style) are the best machines of the breed. Craftsman saws not nearly so much (trying to be delicate in how I put this). I had an older vintage C'man and I could not for the life of me keep that thing aligned or adjusted. :rolleyes: So I swore off RAS's a while ago.

Having decided to move over to older machinery for all my other equipment, I am going to be working on a 50's vintage Dewalt MBF after this next weekend. Its one of the older, speckled green finish machines that are considered as some of the better machines built especially in terms of repeatability and accuracy. It wont spin a 10" blade, max is 9" and most likey I will use an 8" blade with it. This is what it looks like in its present state:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/Son7fsErx_I/AAAAAAAAHpo/1qWUoRvSgio/s800/P8173568.JPG

Now will it do as well for accuracy as some of the new miter saws? Ask me in a month or two. I am going to rebuild it and put a Mr. Sawdust style table underneath it and align it up and see how well it works. Most likely it will need new bearings in the motor and a nice repaint. I am hoping it lives up to the reputation it seems to have. If it does, it will sit where I presently have a 12" Porter Cable CMS. If it doesn't, it will cost me 25 bucks and whatever parts and time I put into it. For me that's not a bad deal, especially since I like working these old machines. As for that craftsman you are looking at, if it were me, I would keep looking.

[David DeCristoforo]

Really kind of "apples and oranges" in spite of the overlap in function. A miter saw will be much better if you do a lot of mitering and crosscutting where you have to keep changing the angle of the blade. Much easier on a miter saw. On the other hand, if you do primarily ninety degree crosscutting of rough stock, The RAS wins hands down. There are things you can do on both machines that you cannot do on the other. You cannot plunge cut with a RAS. You cannot mount a dado blade on a miter saw. The miter saw is easier to pack around... the RAS, better for building into a fixed bench. So you really need to think about what you will be doing. I have both and both get a workout. But I do agree with Bob that the C'man is not the best RAS. That old DeWalt on the other hand, can't be beat. BTW, Bob, be careful with those red bakelite knobs. They can be brittle and they are "hens teeth" in the truest sense of the term... almost impossible to find replacements.

[Peter Quinn]

David makes some excellent points that are very close to my own thinking on the subject. They are simply not the same tool, I have one of each and wouldn't trade either for the other or give up either. Want to cut rough 12/4 WO? SCMS is NOT the right tool. Want to trim out a room with a 3 piece crown and frieze around an octagonal bump out window? Good luck getting that done this year with the RAS. Most SCMS I have used don't even like framing lumber with a bit of twist, and I would rather cut that with a skill saw personally. My RAS weights 850# assembled, so it doesn't go to job sites.:eek:

Specifically regarding the Craftsman RAS, I have never used one that I though was worth its weight in cat poop. My Dad offered me one for free and I threatened to stop speaking to him because the price was too high! I'm not saying they can't be made to work, but I wouldn't expect much from them, and I would plan on getting REAL GOOD at adjusting them as they simply weren't built to hold their settings. Take a look at a DeWalt RAS in terms of adjustments and set screws and set screws to HOLD the set screws, then you will see what I mean. And that 3HP rating? My margarita blender draws more amps and I believe develops more power!

In any event, my RAS is a 1949 DeWalt GR42 long arm 14" 2HP (that is when 2HP was true power, not developed). I like this saw and will sell it at my funeral if you can wait till then. I have set up a few old DeWalts but am by no means an expert. I like them and would look out for one in working order. Mine was a basket case that took me two years to find the parts, assemble and wire. Not everyone enjoys that kind of hassle. If the choice is between a good SCMS and a C'Man RAS, I would go with the SCMS. In fact I did when faced with that same choice and was not sorry even though the RAS was free.

PS: the DeWalt pictured was also free though the ultimate cost in parts and sweat was not. Still a better value than the C'Man.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have both but the SCMS is KING. If I had to choose ebtween the two the SCMS would win everytime. Not only for the capacity but also for the ease of setting up a miter or compound miter cut.

[Brent Leonard]

Kinda off topic, but it does fall into this discussion.....

I read an article about how many of todays big box tool manufacterers rate their motors (amperage rating),
they measure the draw in amperage while the motor is running. A hydralic clamp is pinched down on the output shaft, stopping the motor at full run. The highest amperage pull, just before the motor catches on fire, is the rating of the motor.

[Charlie Plesums]

Many Sears RAS were recalled, including mine. I kept using it for a long, time, but when I ran out of room in my shop, I couldn't sell it because of the recall, so I took the $100 buyout offered in the recall.

The Older Sears RAS were just okay at holding alignment. If you moved it... they would not "snap back" into a right angle or other specific angle. The newer ones were reportedly worse. Therefore I considered my RAS a "90 degree only" saw. I used it for 30 years as my primary saw for both ripping and cross cutting, and was never hurt by it.

As others have said, the Miter saws are far better at setting an angle. If I were to buy one, I would get a non-slider with 12 inch blade... the ones I have used cut everything I want to do on a miter saw (I have a fancy table saw for other things), and without the sliing feature, the miter saws are a lot cheaper and probably better at holding their alignment.

[phil harold]

+1 on the craftsman ras recall
http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/

My craftsman never stayed adjusted allways had to fiddle with it

Also not a fan of a dado head in a radial arm saw they just want to walk into the wood

For rough dimension a RAS is a great tool that takes up lots of space

[Jeff Bratt]

I read an article about how many of todays big box tool manufacterers rate their motors (amperage rating), they measure the draw in amperage while the motor is running. A hydralic clamp is pinched down on the output shaft, stopping the motor at full run. The highest amperage pull, just before the motor catches on fire, is the rating of the motor.

The amperage ratings found on motors are pretty accurate - and often provide the only clue as to the real horsepower of a motor. And the HP numbers found on the nameplates of motors are also generally accurate. However, the horsepower numbers emblazoned on the front labels of many tools (especially shop vacs) are wildly outside the realm of physical possibility, and cannot be trusted. These are not ratings, but more marketing fantasies. More information here (http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Ejeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/HP/Horsepower.html).

[Andrew Joiner]

I would get a new SCMS or a good used Dewalt.

When I started woodworking in 1965 radial arm saws were the center of many shops. That was before low cost carbide blades and Asian machines. I ripped and cut up 4x8 sheets on a Wards radial saw in my own shop. Wards was a consumer saw like the Sears Craftsman. My Wards saw melted from over heating. Yes,some of the parts were plastic. It paid for itself as I did a few big jobs with only that saw doing all the cutting. The next Radial saws I bought were both Dewalts and they are true industrial machines. I still use one.

In 1970 I worked at a decent size 5 man shop. Believe it or not we did all our ripping and crosscutting of 8/4 Maple on a 12" Craftsman Radial saw! We built lots of store fixtures and furniture. It can be done, but today I'd look at a SCMS.