Price Quote

[Gene Hobbs]

Hello everyone hope everyone is doing great. I need some help quoting a job. This will be a very large job. It will consist of me marking all the aluminum pieces that is used for several of the NASCAR teams. Of course I will have to use Cermark which I have tested on these parts and it will work. There will be several hundred parts at a time. I was just wondering if you guys thought .45 per piece would be enough or should I charge more? They will send me all the info all I have to do is coat and mark.


Thanks in advance
Gene

[Bob Savage]

Hi Gene,

I can't help with pricing, but I will take a guess that you'll be asked for more information/details before those with experience can assist.

[Dan Hintz]

I wouldn't touch the job for less than several $s/piece. When I marked some 3x4" stainless brackets with a 1/2" high single line of text, I charged $5/piece for 25. No jig due to the small number, but it still took me about two hours. I would have preferred more of a profit margin, but I did okay. Unless the pieces are really small and can be done 50+ at a time in a jig, $0.45/piece would hardly cover electricity.

Edit: I just reread your post. Is it color anodized aluminum? If so, there's no need to use Cermark, just blast away the color. If it's not color, make sure you realize more power is needed with aluminum than other metals.

[Mike Null]

If you've never used Cermark you'll quickly find out that .45 is about what it takes to clean it before painting and again after lasering. It's also likely that your Cermark is going to cost you .25 or more per piece.

[Gene Hobbs]

Thanks Guys
I am used to building trophies not doing large engraving jobs. They gave me a couple parts to play with. I cermarked it and lasered at 10 speed, 100 power. They said it would be around 800 to 1000 parts per month.

[Dan Hintz]

Thanks Guys
I am used to building trophies not doing large engraving jobs. They gave me a couple parts to play with. I cermarked it and lasered at 10 speed, 100 power. They said it would be around 800 to 1000 parts per month.
At that quantity, a jig will be a necessity. Depending upon size, I may go as low as $1/piece for really small pieces that I can fill a jig with, spray, then load in the laser while I'm filling another tray. That said, I bet the pieces aren't that small, so figure on $2 and up.

Wish I got that job :(

[Martin Boekers]

Gene,

Are all these the same style part? Are all same type and set-up? Are they subject to heat and chemicals or more a souvineer type item?

There may be better ways than a laser to do this.

.45 a piece just seems a bit low for laser.

Marty

[Stephen Beckham]

I'm with Marty - I can't see how $.45 each will cover the cost of the cermark. You need to count initial cleaning - each part will have some residue that will cause your cermark to come off easily. You need to count the spraying or wiping time of the cermark. You then need to count the time of etching. You need to count the time to clean the remaining cermark off. And whether you like it or not - you're going to have to come up with some kind of shipping container that will keep the parts seperate so they don't wear on each other in shipping. How much is the shipping material - boxes and peanuts aren't free. What about your time to prepare to ship.

I'm all about giving a good price, but I don't mark anything with cermark for less than $5 each minimum. Most of the items I mark run up in the mid to high teens. Just because all the stuff I mentioned above. Think about it - 20 seconds to wash off, then cost of paper towel to dry, inspection time to make sure it took okay and your done. Now multiply that by a couple hundred more pieces. You can't just throw them all in the sink and rub them down one at a time - you've got to touch each piece a minimum of 6 times (clean, mask, align, clean, dry/inspect, package). You couldn't get me to even touch that for $.45 seconds each.

It is a nice job, but don't let them take you...

[Gene Hobbs]

Thanks everyone
I think rather than .45 per piece. I am going to charge by the hour. Talked to a friend last night. Thinking about $65.00 Hr. Whats the thought on that??


Thanks Guys
Gene

[Scott Shepherd]

Depends on how much Cermark you use per hour!

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any dimensions in your posts, so I'm not sure how to help you quote it. .45 cents for a piece how big?

I'm with the others, it's not much I do for .45 cents each.

[Dan Hintz]

Charging by the hour doesn't make much sense, at least not yet. You have no idea how many you can do an hour, so you may end up back at $0.45/piece after all is said and done. And what if you only can do 10/hr? Do you think they'll pay you tens of thousands per month to do a full batch just because you're slow?

[Gene Hobbs]

Yes it is very confusing. They are saying that it will be anything that is made out of aluminum that goes on a race car will need a 5 to 10 digit serial number on it to idetify which team it belongs to. It will be about a 10pt font very small on each part. Thats why it is so confusing. There will be so many different type parts.

Thanks Gene

[Dan Hintz]

If the aluminum is clear-coated, you won't be able to directly mark with Cermark, you'll need to hit it with the laser first to etch away the clearcoat (adding yet another step or two to your already long process). My guess is the pieces will be anodized with a color... hope for such luck.

In my last job I worked for a company that provided all of the in-car video/RF equipment for the NASCAR races... the rule book can be insane in how detailed it is. What would normally be an easily overlooked mistake anywhere else can be considered against the rulebook, requiring either a ruling from the governing body (months, at best) or a redesign of the part (at your cost). fun to be had all around :rolleyes:

[Mike Null]

I do three lines of random text at 15 points on 1" x 3" aluminum tags with Thermark for $5.50 each. That includes set up. My last order was 487 pieces. I don't feel like I'm getting rich at this price. There is a lot of handling. I supply the tags.

[James Stokes]

I have a 100 watt laser and on aluminum raw I can not guarantee the theramark will work on it. I have tried a LOT of aluminum. Some times it works sometimes it does not.

[Martin Boekers]

Gene, now that we know what your doing, if the numbers are all the same for all parts as well as size (10pt) maybe a pad printer would be a more fitting solution. There are may inks available that may fit the needs.

You might want to check with NASCAR to make sure that what you do fits their requirements. I'd have your clients sign a disclamer to. NASCAR is tough on rules and you don't want to be party to a lawsuit if they suspend a team for infractions.

Just a thought.

Marty

[Brian Robison]

Gene, I mark a lot of parts with thermark and cermark.
I'd price them at $1.50 each. Lots of good advice here.
Make 2 jigs. Make sure your samples are consistent materials and thickness. Cermark dries quicker than Thermark so that can reduce your overall cycle time.
Sounds like a great opportunity to me! For a price per hour, 1 part a minute is a nice place to be. I'm guessing your engraving time will be close to 15 seconds a piece.
You'll make some money!!!

[Dan Hintz]

You might want to check with NASCAR to make sure that what you do fits their requirements. I'd have your clients sign a disclamer to. NASCAR is tough on rules and you don't want to be party to a lawsuit if they suspend a team for infractions.
If the parts are being numbered and ordered in quantity, it's most likely the governing body doing the ordering (or a direct representative). If that's true, then they are selling these items back to the teams at a set price (and probably at a profit), and the teams go to them, not you, for replacements. Assuming you fill the order to their specs, they have final say.

[Lisa Higginbotham]

Awesome job. I have an industrial company that I am marking stainless for. It's good money but because we have a niche, don't undersell it! 800-1000 pieces a month is fabulous. Are the pieces all different sizes? Are they flat? I do 1" x 3" pieces that the customer supplies, I get a spreadsheet with the marking text needed. Great work at $3-4 each!

[Lisa Higginbotham]

I think you are way underselling!

[Gary and Jessica Houghton]

Gene,
Think about this... You have to spray every piece, wait for them to dry, laser each piece, with or with out a jig, then you have to clean the piece off. On one pice you can spend 10 minutes. In one hour you will have done 6 individual pieces. At $.45 per peice, is it worth only $2.70 for your hour of time and cermark? I think not. I spent time marking tools for a company, nowhere as many, but I charged $3.00 per piece. $.45 per piece is absolutely too low! At 1,000 pieces that's only $450. 1,000 pieces of anything is worth more than $450. Time is money, and you should not throw your money out the window by offering to take on a job like that for as little as $.45 a pice.
Jessica

[Gene Hobbs]

Thanks Guys
I am going to take you guys advice. Like a freind told me. If I'm not making money off of it. It is not worth messing with..


Thanks Gene

[Mike Null]

Gene

Give them another option--show them a black anodized aluminum plate. They're cheaper, easier to do and look better. Likely these parts are not going to get a lot of abrasive type wear so anodized should be just fine.

Using Thermark on thin aluminum is a real challenge.

[Dave Johnson29]

If I'm not making money off of it. It is not worth messing with..


Exactly, and if the client will not budge on price, you really want your competitors to get these jobs. :D:D

When I ran my software business I was always handing cheap customers off to our competition. I don't think they ever figured it out either. ;)