Festool Discount?

[Lucas Moore]

I'm looking to upgrade some of my smaller power tools to the festool line. Does anyone know of any places that sell them with a discount? I would prefer new and the local woodcraft is the only place that sells them close to me. Thanks

[Jamie Buxton]

Festool controls the retail prices very tightly. Woodcraft's prices are the same as anybody else's.

[Bob Childress]

Festool controls the retail prices very tightly. Woodcraft's prices are the same as anybody else's.

What he said. :)

[Narayan Nayar]

I love Festool and have never heard of a discount on current offerings. Many retail outlets offer "promotions" just before a Festool price increase, but those are just standard prices prior to being raised. And sometimes, I hear, you can get older versions of Festool pieces when a new version comes out (like with the tables recently) for a discount at some retailers and perhaps with Festool itself.

There are probably a few people who have scored a discount on current Festool equipment. But clearly they aren't allowed to speak to the outside world. :)

[Doug Shepard]

About the best you can hope for is finding some place that's offering free shipping. Otherwise you'll pay the same no matter where you buy.

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

No such thing as a Festool discount. You can buy a package deal - like TS55 and dust collection, and you may buy from Internet dealer with no shipping or taxes.
But as an above - everywhere prices are the same.
Ed.
P.S. As I understand even if you don't pay taxes buying from Internet dealer, you are still responsible to pay them to you state?:eek::eek: If anybody wiling to clarify this?:confused::confused:

[Wes Grass]

Yep. In CA at least. You can just ignore it and hope you'll get away with it. And I'm sure millions do. But if you itemize deductions for a business, with any risk of an audit, ask yourself if it's worth it. It ain't to me.

[Scot Ferraro]

And some online dealers signed an agreement with the state recently and they have started to collect taxes for shipments to California. I just bought a TS75 and went local since I needed the tool and did not want to wait for shipping.

Scot

[Brandon Sistrunk]

Guys, I love Festool it is some really fine equipment, but it is dadgum expensive and that is all there is to it. I have a TS55 with dust collection, a domino and a Rotex 125. And the 106'' rail for the TS55, man I love that thing. Nothing better to install 96'' cabinetry and have to scribe a face frame. It is the best thing since sliced bread.

But I had to come to a stopping point. No matter how good the Kapex is I will not pay 1300 for a miter saw. I just got my Dewalt slider for 520 at lowes. And I am happy. But I do love the Festool equipment it is a superior product.

[Ben Abate]

Lucas,

I have purchased a lot of Festool items from two places. one is Select Machinery in N.Y. I don't have the contact name at hand, but they will give a 10% credit towards purchases of accessories if you buy from them. Say you buy a sander, they will give a discount on paper or what ever the accessories you buy....Another person is Bob Marino, the lasts email I had for him is ROBARLMAR@aol.com. Bob was a distributor of Festool before all the Woodcraft stores and others were able to sell them. He has been selling Festool longer than anyone...........

hope this helps

[Sean Nagle]

I have always avoided manufacturers that tightly control their selling prices. It should be up to their dealers what the selling price should be. High-service dealers can price higher and low-service dealers (i.e. online sales) can offer discounts.

[Lucas Moore]

Thanks everyone for the great input! Cliff, thanks so much for the offer but my first purchase has to be a jigsaw and he doesn't have one! I wish he did because his tools look great and so do the prices

[Steve Walls]

Lucas, There's a forum all about Festool, in case you weren't aware of it, http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php

[Brice Burrell]

Lucas,

I have purchased a lot of Festool items from two places. one is Select Machinery in N.Y. I don't have the contact name at hand, but they will give a 10% credit towards purchases of accessories if you buy from them. Say you buy a sander, they will give a discount on paper or what ever the accessories you buy....Another person is Bob Marino, the lasts email I had for him is ROBARLMAR@aol.com. Bob was a distributor of Festool before all the Woodcraft stores and others were able to sell them. He has been selling Festool longer than anyone...........

hope this helps

I bet Select Machinery will be getting a call form Festool, no unauthorized discounts are allowed, period. I'm sure some Festool dealer that has seen this thread will rat out Select Machinery. The whole point of the fixed pricing is for dealers to have a level paying field and to compete on service. That can't happen if one dealer doesn't follow the rules.

[John Harden]

The whole point of the fixed pricing is for dealers to have a level paying field and to compete on service. That can't happen if one dealer doesn't follow the rules.

I read a good article on this type of selling approach. It claimed the whole point is to maintain high profits and that the practice borders on illegal price fixing. Manufacturers claim their approach is technically legal and they're probably right. At the end of the day, its consumers who pay the price, literally.

I own a few Festool items but whenever I can I shy away from manufacturers who operate this way.

Regards,

John

[Sean Nagle]

I read a good article on this type of selling approach. It claimed the whole point is to maintain high profits and that the practice borders on illegal price fixing. Manufacturers claim their approach is technically legal and they're probably right. At the end of the day, its consumers who pay the price, literally.

Just a couple years ago, there was a Supreme Court ruling that reinforced company's practice of this type of price-fixing.

[Steve Dunbar]

If you're looking to buy a saw and guide rail system, both Makita and Dewalt have recently come out with tracksaw systems similar to Festool. They aren't cheap, but you might be able to save a little compared to Festool.

[Jacob Reverb]

Why would you want a discount on Festool stuff? Isn't paying too much the whole point of the brand?

Just seems kind of like asking, "Can anyone point me to a saw blade that won't cut?"

http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/peepwall.gif

[Trace Beard]

I'm looking to upgrade some of my smaller power tools to the festool line. Does anyone know of any places that sell them with a discount? I would prefer new and the local woodcraft is the only place that sells them close to me. Thanks

Yes you can get a discount on Festool tools. Use ebay, there are a number of dealers that sell through ebay. And by using ebay you get the current Microsoft cash back (yesterday it was 15%) and I think ebay is also offering a 2% discount (ebay bucks?). And with most online festool dealers you get free S/H and no taxes. A couple of times I have contacted the dealers selling on ebay requesting a specific tool and usually one of them will put the tool up within hours.

Good luck

[Steve Rowe]

If you're looking to buy a saw and guide rail system, both Makita and Dewalt have recently come out with tracksaw systems similar to Festool. They aren't cheap, but you might be able to save a little compared to Festool.


Why would you want a discount on Festool stuff? Isn't paying too much the whole point of the brand?

Just seems kind of like asking, "Can anyone point me to a saw blade that won't cut?"

http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/peepwall.gif

Interesting that the Festool TS55 with track sells for $500.
The Dewalt with track lists for $840.42 and is on sale for $499.
The Makita plunge saw lists for $614 and is on sale for about $350 without the track. If you want the track, plan on shelling out another $239 for a total expenditure of $589.

The Festool looks like a bargain compared to the Johnny come lately's with no track record (:D:D pun intended). Paying too much is never the point of any brand. The point is value which is the ratio of cost to performance. The tool is either worth it to a particular individual or it is not. If it makes folks feel good because they got a huge discount to pay what the tool was really worth to begin with, so be it.

[Bob Childress]

Just a couple years ago, there was a Supreme Court ruling that reinforced company's practice of this type of price-fixing.

That's because it is not price-fixing. It is price maintenance. For price-fixing you need more than one company.

Festool has plenty of competition at all price points, so there is no anti-competitive result.

[Keith Christopher]

As long as people are willing to pay the prices they ask there is no reason for them to lower them. Stop buying them and complain about prices and they will go down.

[Bob Marino]

As long as people are willing to pay the prices they ask there is no reason for them to lower them. Stop buying them and complain about prices and they will go down.

Not true. Ummn, well I am not privy to Festool's sales figures, but the economy has affected just about everyone in the last year or so, and Festool hasn't hasn't reduced prices.

Bob

[Sean Nagle]

Festool "maintains" their prices by forcing their resellers to sell at a fixed price (actually it's what is termed Manufacturer's Advertised Price). This way they eliminate competition in the reseller market. This practice is justified to protect the reseller from the effects of market competition.

[Matt Meiser]

I don't like it but Festool isn't the only one. Bose does it. Honda does it with their generators (though they apparently allow selling at a lower price, just not advertising a lower price.) If you look at the fine print of any department store ad touting "Everything On Sale" you'll see a list of exclusions.

[Ben Davis]

Why would you want a discount on Festool stuff? Isn't paying too much the whole point of the brand?

Just seems kind of like asking, "Can anyone point me to a saw blade that won't cut?"

http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/peepwall.gif
Yeah, probably not a fair statement.

There is something (and how much of that something is up to the individual) to be said about dust collection and portabililty at a job site. Most of these tools weren't exactly designed with the hobbiest in mind!

[Don Selke]

I have never seen a discount on Festool nor have I seen a discount on Leigh jogs. If you want them, you have to pay for them.

[Brice Burrell]

Yes you can get a discount on Festool tools. Use ebay, there are a number of dealers that sell through ebay. And by using ebay you get the current Microsoft cash back (yesterday it was 15%) and I think ebay is also offering a 2% discount (ebay bucks?). And with most online festool dealers you get free S/H and no taxes. A couple of times I have contacted the dealers selling on ebay requesting a specific tool and usually one of them will put the tool up within hours.

Good luck

I'm pretty sure I remember hearing Festool put a stop to this too about a year ago. Maybe the Ebay discounts have been restructured and can now get around Festool's sales agreement. Festool seems to be very serious about maintaining control over pricing.

[Chris Tsutsui]

If there was a legitimate way to get a discount, then believe me... The word would be out. :)

Festool doesn't go on sale, if you wait they only increase in price. :(

[George Lesniak]

I'm looking to upgrade some of my smaller power tools to the festool line. Does anyone know of any places that sell them with a discount? I would prefer new and the local woodcraft is the only place that sells them close to me. Thanks

Lucas,

Apply for a Woodcraft credit card, they offer 4% cash back for all Woodcraft purchases (for as long as you have the card) and 1% for all other purchases (for the 1st 90- days). The 4% is paid directly to your statement monthly. This works well as long as you pay off the card in full every month like I do.

Or, buy online from Bob Marino. Free shipping and no sales tax.

George

[Alex Leslie]

The only legitimate discount on Festools is when you buy a package - a Domino w/ a Dust Extractor, a TS55 w/an MFT3 and so on. I have bought a few used tools on eBay and have not had any problems with them. Expect to pay 80-95% of retail plus shipping. Most dealers have free shipping on Festool orders over $150. I have bought from Festooljunkie.com and McFeelys.com and had great service from both.

[Dave Sabo]

Sean - what kind of business are you in?

Do you let customers set the prices you charge for your goods or services?

I didn't think so, so why should Festool or anyone else. A free market will naturally take care of the weak inefficient players.

[Matt Meiser]

Both consumers and sellers set prices. Sellers offer the item at a price and consumers decide if they are willing to pay that price. Obviously a lot of us have no trouble paying Festool's offered prices, for at least some of their items in my case. If we weren't Festool would lower their prices or leave the market. If you don't like the offered price, or don't like the company because of the prices they offer, then buy something else.

[Wilbur Pan]

One thing that is interesting to me is that for years I've read comments about how the Festool track saws are so overpriced. Who in their right mind would pay $500 for a circular saw and an aluminum straight edge??!?!?

Now there are two alternatives. Makita's track saw sells for $464, including the track, and does not come with a riving knife. Dewalt's version sells for $499. So price-wise, it's a wash.

You would think that with the conventional wisdom, there would have been ample opportunity to come onto the market with a track saw that was considerably cheaper than $500. The fact that Makita and Dewalt were unable to do so says something.

[Sean Nagle]

Sean - what kind of business are you in?

Do you let customers set the prices you charge for your goods or services?

I didn't think so, so why should Festool or anyone else. A free market will naturally take care of the weak inefficient players.

As Matt said, it takes both buyers and sellers to create a "market". A seller can offer a product or service for anything they choose, but it takes a buyer to see enough value in the product or service to consummate a sale and generate revenue [and potentially profit] for the seller. The price elasticity of demand determines how much a seller can ask and what volume of sales they will see as a result.

Now this is how things work for a manufacturer selling directly to a customer. However, in the case of retailing, we have an agent who buys from the producer at a lower price and sells to the consumer at a higher price. The margin the retailing agent makes should be commensurate to the value that the agent is adding. The agent that invests in maintaining a Festool display and demonstration area and takes the time to educate the buyer on proper use of the product and is there to help the customer when they encounter problems or defects with the product should be able to ask a higher price than an agent who takes an online order and fulfills shipment of that product. Practically all retailing agents have the freedom to set prices such that they can maximize their margins at a chosen volume. However, if manufacturers dictate the selling price, the retailing agent isn't free to adjust the price in response to both the amount of value they are adding and what their particular market is willing to bear in order to achieve the volume that is appropriate to maintain their business.

Dave to answer your first question, I'm a venture capitalist and I invest in companies that create real value for their customers such that they can establish sustained revenues [and profits] which in turn creates value for their owners.

[Bob Marino]

As Matt said, it takes both buyers and sellers to create a "market". A seller can offer a product or service for anything they choose, but it takes a buyer to see enough value in the product or service to consummate a sale and generate revenue [and potentially profit] for the seller. The price elasticity of demand determines how much a seller can ask and what volume of sales they will see as a result.

Now this is how things work for a manufacturer selling directly to a customer. However, in the case of retailing, we have an agent who buys from the producer at a lower price and sells to the consumer at a higher price. The margin the retailing agent makes should be commensurate to the value that the agent is adding. The agent that invests in maintaining a Festool display and demonstration area and takes the time to educate the buyer on proper use of the product and is there to help the customer when they encounter problems or defects with the product should be able to ask a higher price than an agent who takes an online order and fulfills shipment of that product. Practically all retailing agents have the freedom to set prices such that they can maximize their margins at a chosen volume. However, if manufacturers dictate the selling price, the retailing agent isn't free to adjust the price in response to both the amount of value they are adding and what their particular market is willing to bear in order to achieve the volume that is appropriate to maintain their business.

Dave to answer your first question, I'm a venture capitalist and I invest in companies that create real value for their customers such that they can establish sustained revenues [and profits] which in turn creates value for their owners.

Admitedly I am not the most objective person regarding Festool's marketing/pricing policy, but honestly I don't have a problem purchasing from companies (BOSE as one example) that do have similar pricing policies, actually it saves me the time from shopping to find the "best deal", I know what the price is and if I find enough value in it, I buy; knowing that I am not going to be concerned that the store X is offering that $300.00 radio for $250.00, but that's just me.
Regarding the brick and mortar vs on-line dealers, you raise good points and although I have been a Festool dealer for about 8 years or so, it is only in the last few years that any dealer, b&m or Internet, could actually stock and sell the tools - they were all dropped shipped from Festool to the end customer. Though you are also correct that there are more costs incurred having a b&m than an online store, BUT one huge disadvantage and major expense incurred by the on-line dealers is shipping costs - sometimes up to 50-60% of profit can be eaten up by shipping costs. I did have a b&m store (admitedly for only a few months last year) but can tell you that I saved about $60.00 or more when a customer picked up their Kapex miter saw. More than that on the MFT tables.
The margin the retailing agent makes should be commensurate to the value that the agent is adding.

Well, I have only one phone for business - my cell phone and it's on from 8 AM until about 10 PM including weekends, does that qualify as adding value?

Without getting into specifics, Festool does reward those dealers who display and demonstrate the tools correctly and who send their staff to training. But not every store does take the time to do those things correctly and many customers will seek out and (sometimes)make their purchase from knowlegeable on-line dealers rather than from some store that is not providing said service.
Festool being a family owned (yes, family owned) company in business for over 85 years, looks at the picture long term, not short term and has no "bean counters" making their decisions. So far, its worked pretty well, as they are the tool market leader in Europe in the cabinet making, boating, auto polishing and flooring industries. At the end of the day, there are no perfect systems, but Festool has a desire to have dealers compete on service rather than price and that's what guides their pricing policy.

[Bob Childress]

The price elasticity of demand determines how much a seller can ask and what volume of sales they will see as a result.

Now this is how things work for a manufacturer selling directly to a customer. However, in the case of retailing, we have an agent who buys from the producer at a lower price and sells to the consumer at a higher price. The margin the retailing agent makes should be commensurate to the value that the agent is adding.


In an ideal world, this might be true. But in practice it often falls short. The agent may add value on the front end and still lose the sale to the on-line retailer, as the customer takes the good advice and then purchases elsewhere.


The agent that invests in maintaining a Festool display and demonstration area and takes the time to educate the buyer on proper use of the product and is there to help the customer when they encounter problems or defects with the product should be able to ask a higher price than an agent who takes an online order and fulfills shipment of that product.

The operative word is "should."


However, if manufacturers dictate the selling price, the retailing agent isn't free to adjust the price in response to both the amount of value they are adding and what their particular market is willing to bear in order to achieve the volume that is appropriate to maintain their business.

In the case of Festool (and a number of other manufacturers: Bose, Sony, Leigh, Chanel fragrances, etc.) their business model calls for maintaining the cachet of the brand. Even one or two dealers selling at "low ball" prices will soon undercut the business model and cheapen the product in the eyes of the market.That is the motivation behind price maintenance.

Allowing the reseller to set prices is, as you say, a common practice. But it has the effect of taking the branding effort out of the hands of the manufacturer and yielding it to the reseller. Not a problem for business models based on volume (Ryobi, DeWalt, et al.) but anathema to a price maintenance model.


It cannot reasonably be argued that it is a restraint of trade because, as I pointed out in an earlier post, there are many competing brands at all price points. So choose not to resell Festools, if you are unhappy with their policy.

Dave to answer your first question, I'm a venture capitalist and I invest in companies that create real value for their customers such that they can establish sustained revenues [and profits] which in turn creates value for their owners.

That's right off the Venture Capitalist 101 crib sheet. :D You mean, of course, that you HOPE the company will make a market in the new product or service and you accept or decline the risk based on your own research. ;)

[Daniel Berlin]

That's right off the Venture Capitalist 101 crib sheet. :D You mean, of course, that you HOPE the company will make a market in the new product or service and you accept or decline the risk based on your own research. ;)

Your definitions are weird and certainly not what I learned in antitrust class ;)
Price Fixing (minimum or maximum) is by definition a restraint on trade, not because you can't buy someone else's stuff, but because it purports to tell you what you can do with something once you've bought it.

Remember that if i am a reseller, i purchase these things from Festool and resell them. The second I purchase them, they are supposed to be mine to do with as I please, including selling them for whatever price I want (please don't try to analogize this to software or something where they purport to sell licenses and not products. This is clearly the sale of a product).
The fact that Festool refuses to let me resell them for whatever price I want, after I have bought them (under threat of not selling them to me anymore) is the very definition of "restraint of trade" because they have restrained my further trading (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraint_of_trade, mainly because i'm too lazy to find a free source for Black's Law dictionary)!

It is true that price fixing is no longer per-se illegal. In other words, it is not enough to simply show that someone has price-fixed something in order to win an antitrust case. These are now analyzed under the rule of reason, which has the effect of making them much harder to show to be anti-trust violations.

That does not make the practice any more or less a restraint of trade however, it just changes whether it is legal or not ;)

Nobody challenges these arrangements anymore because unless you can show the price fixer has massive market power, it's very hard to win.

As I said however, they are still restraints of trade.

[Bob Marino]

Your definitions are weird and certainly not what I learned in antitrust class ;)
Price Fixing (minimum or maximum) is by definition a restraint on trade, not because you can't buy someone else's stuff, but because it purports to tell you what you can do with something once you've bought it.

Remember that if i am a reseller, i purchase these things from Festool and resell them. The second I purchase them, they are supposed to be mine to do with as I please, including selling them for whatever price I want (please don't try to analogize this to software or something where they purport to sell licenses and not products. This is clearly the sale of a product).
The fact that Festool refuses to let me resell them for whatever price I want, after I have bought them (under threat of not selling them to me anymore) is the very definition of "restraint of trade" because they have restrained my further trading (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraint_of_trade, mainly because i'm too lazy to find a free source for Black's Law dictionary)!

It is true that price fixing is no longer per-se illegal. In other words, it is not enough to simply show that someone has price-fixed something in order to win an antitrust case. These are now analyzed under the rule of reason, which has the effect of making them much harder to show to be anti-trust violations.

That does not make the practice any more or less a restraint of trade however, it just changes whether it is legal or not ;)

Nobody challenges these arrangements anymore because unless you can show the price fixer has massive market power, it's very hard to win.

As I said however, they are still restraints of trade.


I am not that well versed in law, but I do know one can also make the argument that not being alowed to shout "fire" in a theatre can be considered by some purists as a limtaion/violation of their free speech. The courts have ruled differently...in both instances. I agree with the courts...and even if I didn't; that's the law.
Anyhow, back to the original post; as mentioned by Alex, (before this thread got a tad sidetracked (IMHO)) - the only legitimate discounts are those offered by Festool; - tools and the vac, the TS saw and Multi-Function Tables; when they offer a new tool with an extra free accessory, or when a tool is about to be discontinued.

Bob